Groove Agent has lost it's way

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Re: Groove Agent has lost it's way

Post by Rumdrum » Sat Dec 27, 2014 6:55 pm

monsterjazzlicks wrote:Hi MM,
_MusicMan_ wrote:I've never used Groove Agent before, but I bought GA4 recently and really like it.
I think GA4 is more of an issue for members (who like myself) are migrating from GA2/GA3. There seems to be a general consensus of expectations as to what current owners had hoped the new version would be like.

Ta,

Paul
Well, both yes and no... It is true that if you have no experience with GA2/3 you don't know what to miss. However GA4 does not stand the competition soundwise or GUI wise agianst current competitors anyway. Where GA4 excells is in live situations due to programmable PADs. It is also more of a "swiss army knife" as it contians different "agents" (Drum sets - both acoustik and electronic) than say EzDrummer, where you need at least one add on pack to obtain the similar electronic drums. But the depth of each drumset in GA4 is limited. So it is wider and shallower than most competitor sets. Old GA2/3 was even wider and even shallower. And we loved that small part of GA2/3 that no one else had, didn't we? My precious. They took my precious away from us.
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Re: Groove Agent has lost it's way

Post by monsterjazzlicks » Sat Dec 27, 2014 7:03 pm

Ta RedRum,
Rumdrum wrote:If you have not bought anything from Toontrack yet, you will register when you buy. You determine the product first and during check out you will be prompted to fill in the information.

Previously there was only one option and that was CD in a box. Nowadays it is more and more downloads. Yes it is better to have a "hard copy" if the world should collaps, but I have done that "safety routine" by a double back up. No need for CDs and boxes to fill up the shelf. CDs rarely contain the latest version so you need to download updates anyway.

Compare the prices between the Toontrack site and the Time & Space retailer. For me (in Norway) the prices of T&S are better for some reason.
No, I have never made a purchase from ToonTracks as yet, and so am not registered.

I am not too bothered about penny pinching to be honest as I think 99GBP is a fair price and also I can click&collect at my local Argos store. Personally, I would still rather own a genuine boxed version and then make any required updates once EZ2 has been installed.

And so do you think this eBay shop offering will be suffice please :-

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Toontrack-EZ- ... 43d13e3489

Are the EZ2 Expansion Packs only available as downloads please? None appeared after a quick eBay search. If so, I would rather purchase directly from ToonTracks website.

Much thanks...

Paul

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Re: Groove Agent has lost it's way

Post by monsterjazzlicks » Sat Dec 27, 2014 7:17 pm

RedRum,
Rumdrum wrote:t is true that if you have no experience with GA2/3 you don't know what to miss. However GA4 does not stand the competition soundwise or GUI wise agianst current competitors anyway. Where GA4 excells is in live situations due to programmable PADs. It is also more of a "swiss army knife" as it contians different "agents" (Drum sets - both acoustik and electronic) than say EzDrummer, where you need at least one add on pack to obtain the similar electronic drums. But the depth of each drumset in GA4 is limited. So it is wider and shallower than most competitor sets. Old GA2/3 was even wider and even shallower. And we loved that small part of GA2/3 that no one else had, didn't we?
Very interesting indeed.

It it a great shame that GA4 took a curve-ball.

I can see its advantages for live performances and (let's say) younger(!) musicians. But GA4 is far from what we might call being traditional and I don't think that whatever extras it can provide will ever make me feel INSPIRED. Timbre-wise, my ears can not really tell between such minute differences between rival brands. And whenever you watch You Tube demo's, the VST always sounds radically different through you own system! lol

Cheers,

Paul

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Re: Groove Agent has lost it's way

Post by Rumdrum » Sun Dec 28, 2014 2:24 am

I have most of the expansion packs for Ez Drummer (I also have Superior Drummer and most expansions for that). I used to buy them as CDs + Card board boxes, but changed to download. I am sorry but I can not remember if the change was out of convenience or availability.

99USD for ED2 seems ok. Ebay + paypal has a protection plan as well. Think it is safe. But be aware that many offers nowadays that look like a box but is really serial number.
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Re: Groove Agent has lost it's way

Post by robissimo » Sun Dec 28, 2014 12:27 pm

I have been a staunch GA3 supported and produced some great music with it - especially in the jazz vein. GA4 soimply does not cater for me now, so I am joining the ranks of the disappointed. so I have loaded GA3 back into my newly upgraded Windows 7 / Cubase 7.5 environment (finally let go of XP and Cubase 4.5) and willo have to carry on as before.

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Re: Groove Agent has lost it's way

Post by monsterjazzlicks » Sun Dec 28, 2014 2:32 pm

RR,
Rumdrum wrote:99USD for ED2 seems ok. Ebay + paypal has a protection plan as well. Think it is safe. But be aware that many offers nowadays that look like a box but is really serial number.
So do you think I am correct in that you can only purchase the Expansion Packs for EZ2 as a download please?

Ta,

Paul

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Re: Groove Agent has lost it's way

Post by monsterjazzlicks » Sun Dec 28, 2014 2:35 pm

RR,
Rumdrum wrote:I think GA4 is such a bad product that the best advice to Steinberg is to pull it from the market and come back next year with something new (in the direction of GA2/3).
I wonder if that might ever happen? There may be too many disgruntled customers who have only just purchased GA4 (and for the first time) in the last 6 x months.

Cheers,

Paul

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Re: Groove Agent has lost it's way

Post by Rumdrum » Sun Dec 28, 2014 2:45 pm

monsterjazzlicks wrote:RR,
Rumdrum wrote:99USD for ED2 seems ok. Ebay + paypal has a protection plan as well. Think it is safe. But be aware that many offers nowadays that look like a box but is really serial number.
So do you think I am correct in that you can only purchase the Expansion Packs for EZ2 as a download please?

Ta,

Paul
Dont know really, but I would strongly recommend downloads. It took some mental ajustment for me too, but I never wanna revert to boxes. Get a harddisc and back up or back up to a cloud. Much better. Use the gained space for some nice wine bottles. There are sooooooo many pluggs only available through downloads anyway so you will, sooner or later, be forced into the download system. Also take into considderation that if the company do not close down, you can always re-download from their site.
Last edited by Rumdrum on Sun Dec 28, 2014 2:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Groove Agent has lost it's way

Post by Rumdrum » Sun Dec 28, 2014 2:50 pm

monsterjazzlicks wrote:RR,
Rumdrum wrote:I think GA4 is such a bad product that the best advice to Steinberg is to pull it from the market and come back next year with something new (in the direction of GA2/3).
I wonder if that might ever happen? There may be too many disgruntled customers who have only just purchased GA4 (and for the first time) in the last 6 x months.

Cheers,

Paul
No won't happen. For many reasons. The major one is for Steinberg to admit the whole product of GA4 was a big mistake. For the first time in my daw history I have been wondering if I have backed the right horse. I have during the last few months been looking into Logic X (have 9) and Bitwig, just because of the damn GA4 and Steinbergs attitude towards dissatisfied customers. I am however very pleased with CB8 so it is a difficult situation to sort out.
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Re: Groove Agent has lost it's way

Post by monsterjazzlicks » Sun Dec 28, 2014 2:57 pm

RR,
Rumdrum wrote:Dont know really, but I would strongly recommend downloads. It took some mental ajustment for me too, but I never wanna revert to boxes. Get a harddisc and back up or back up to a cloud. Much better. Use the gained space for some nice wine bottles. There are sooooooo many pluggs only available through downloads anyway so you will, sooner or later, be forced into the download system. Also take into considderation that if the company do not close down, you can always re-download from their site.
Ok, ta mate. I have a couple of external HD's which I use for backing up stuff (a TB and 500GB). I never back stuff up to the Cloud. Can't be bothered to, to be honest and my work is not THAT imperative (well so far, anyway). I do have Drop Box and You Send It which I know a few members on here use for this purpose.

Ta,

Paul

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Re: Groove Agent has lost it's way

Post by monsterjazzlicks » Sun Dec 28, 2014 3:01 pm

RR,
Rumdrum wrote:No won't happen. For many reasons. The major one is for Steinberg to admit the whole product of GA4 was a big mistake. For the first time in my daw history I have been wondering if I have backed the right horse. I have during the last few months been looking into Logic X (have 9) and Bitwig, just because of the damn GA4 and Steinbergs attitude towards dissatisfied customers.
Well they would be better off simply admitting there were (in hindsight) some bad decisions made in the making of GA4. I would think that in such a situation it would be entirely forgivable and that they would regain some lost (and leaving) customers. And then re-launch it in 6 x months time (or how ever long).

Paul

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Re: Groove Agent has lost it's way

Post by monsterjazzlicks » Sun Dec 28, 2014 3:35 pm

Hi,

This sale offers a DRUM KIT pack (Rock) with it, but I am not sure if this is something EXTRA than what you would normally receive, or if it is included anyway with any EZ2 package? :-

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Toontrack-EZd ... AQ:GB:1123

Cheers,

Paul

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Re: Groove Agent has lost it's way

Post by monsterjazzlicks » Sun Dec 28, 2014 7:29 pm

Hi Rob,
robissimo wrote:I have been a staunch GA3 supported and produced some great music with it - especially in the jazz vein. GA4 soimply does not cater for me now, so I am joining the ranks of the disappointed. so I have loaded GA3 back into my newly upgraded Windows 7 / Cubase 7.5 environment (finally let go of XP and Cubase 4.5) and willo have to carry on as before.
Ta man. Nice to know someone from the same genre feels the same way to! Luckily i KEPT GA3 on both of my PC's and did not purchase GA4 (just ran the trial).

Did you actually purchase GA4? And if not, what do you intend to buy instead?

best,

Paul

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Re: Groove Agent has lost it's way

Post by Rumdrum » Sun Dec 28, 2014 8:33 pm

monsterjazzlicks wrote:Hi,

This sale offers a DRUM KIT pack (Rock) with it, but I am not sure if this is something EXTRA than what you would normally receive, or if it is included anyway with any EZ2 package? :-

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Toontrack-EZd ... AQ:GB:1123

Cheers,

Paul
For 5£ extra I would go for it. It is a very cheep way of learning the Toontrack system. The sets included in Ez2 are great and you would normally do with those, but you will get extra MIDI files anyway together with some different sounding drums. Every expansion pack sounds differently, however not necessary what you need or would use. If you like to tweek Eq you can get a lot out of Ez2 and do without expansions. It is better to listen through a few drumsets, use them, get to know them, tweek them and then... if there are still things to be desired, you will have your ear on that when looking for another expansion.
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Re: Groove Agent has lost it's way

Post by monsterjazzlicks » Sun Dec 28, 2014 9:09 pm

RR,

Ok, ta man.

Here is the sellers reply :-
Hi Paul,

the expansion is definetly a download as you get this as a promo from toontrack upon registration. The main program comes on a disc.

Regards
I just put in a "Make Me An Offer" so hopefully it will get accepted.

Cheers.

Paul

<Update- My offer has been accepted and so therefore I won it for 95GBP instead of (the 'BIN' price) 103GBP>

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Re: Groove Agent has lost it's way

Post by monsterjazzlicks » Wed Dec 31, 2014 9:02 pm

RR,
Rumdrum wrote:If you have not bought anything from Toontrack yet, you will register when you buy. You determine the product first and during check out you will be prompted to fill in the information.
Have created a Profile and Account with ToonTracks now. My Avatar automatically appeared/uploaded so not sure how the hell that happened!? lol

Paul

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Re: Groove Agent has lost it's way

Post by monsterjazzlicks » Wed Dec 31, 2014 9:08 pm

Hi,

It says here that ToonTracks are having a big sale on at the moment :-

http://www.toontrack.com/ezdrummer-line/

But does anyone know when this sale will expire please?

I have posted this question on the ToonTracks forum but am not sure how active or how much traffic it gets?

Cheers,

Paul


<Update - Please note that only the products marked with “sale” are included in the promotion. Promotion good from December 1, 2014 through January 31, 2015>

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Re: Groove Agent has lost it's way

Post by monsterjazzlicks » Fri Jan 02, 2015 6:46 pm

Hi,
scojo wrote:On top of all this they are discontinuing support for GA3.
Oh, I only just noticed this!

Paul

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Re: Groove Agent has lost it's way

Post by monsterjazzlicks » Mon Jan 05, 2015 6:56 pm

Hi,

The eBay shop sent me a non-DVD copy of EzD2, and no Promo-Code either for the Pop/Rock kit! I double-checked with them the details before making the purchase. So now I might have to open a 'dispute' because I paid them the money about 10 x days ago!

Paul



UPDATE :- The seller thought that Ez2D was a DVD until I reported the concern. The store spoke to ToonTracks who informed them that it has never been available as a hard copy (just a box with a 'product code). And the Pop/Rock kit freebie is downloaded via the website once you have activated Ez2D.

I just spoke to seller who offered me a refund (but I need to check with eBay in case I have to pay shipping costs to return the item [empty box!]). And then in turn purchase/download directly from the ToonTracks Shop. Not sure what the best decision to make is though? If I had known the eBay product was not a hard-copy, then I would have simply purchased the download version from 'TT' two weeks ago!

Cheers,

Paul

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Re: Groove Agent has lost it's way

Post by monsterjazzlicks » Wed Jan 14, 2015 6:20 pm

Hi,

I will not be purchasing from MUSIC MATTERS (Preston, UK) again because they basically just referred me over to 'ToonTracks' to resolve the issue. However 'ToonTracks' sorted the matter out and issued me with a new download-activation-code within a couple of days and so I was impressed with their overall service. I only wish I had purchased from them originally!

'ToonTracks' also took the time and effort to answer many of my remaining product inquiry questions responding to each (with a personal reply) within 24 x hours. Some of the best customer service experience ever here! Interestingly, they were very honest about revealing the fact that company "SWEETWATER MUSIC" also had a SALE on in which some of the EzD2 products were slightly cheaper than in their own webshop. They also recommended SWEETWATER as being a very much trusted retailer.

Again, I received second to none EXCELLENT service from SWEETWATER ([thank you!] Josh) and they answered each and every question of mine in great detail. Upon my final decision to make such purchases, SWEETWATER invited me to SKPYE call them (I am based in UK) so that we could confirm the order and clear up any loose ends. BRILLIANT service guys, thank you!

And so, after much deliberation I have chosen to purchase :-

JAZZ, ELECTRONIC, LATIN and FUNK MASTER EX's

SONGWRITERS DRUM PACK COLLECTION

ESSENTIAL DRUMS MIDI PACK COLLECTION 6


Thanks,

Paul
Last edited by monsterjazzlicks on Wed Jan 14, 2015 7:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Groove Agent has lost it's way

Post by Rumdrum » Wed Jan 14, 2015 6:50 pm

I second Sweetwater and also Time & Space in UK.
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Re: Groove Agent has lost it's way

Post by monsterjazzlicks » Wed Jan 14, 2015 7:07 pm

Redrum,

I have not heard a bad word against Sweetwater.

The salesman had excellent knowledge of the products because he owned some of ToonTracks software, and also he was a drummer himself.

Paul

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Re: Groove Agent has lost it's way

Post by AndrasFL » Sun Jan 18, 2015 12:17 pm

I've just been demoing groove-agent 4 and ez drummer 2. I like them both. Groove agent 4 is a much deeper program. But I think that it's great when you understand how to use it.
I also think that it sounds better than EZ-drummer 2. I tried a lot of different settings on both of them, and every time I preferred the sound of groove agent 4.
So sound vise it's a good product. At least to me.

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Re: Groove Agent has lost it's way

Post by monsterjazzlicks » Sun Jan 18, 2015 4:45 pm

Hi Andras,
AndrasFL wrote:I've just been demoing groove-agent 4 and ez drummer 2.

I preferred the sound of groove agent 4.

So sound vise it's a good product. At least to me.
So do you think you will purchase GA4?

I did think it was well worth the money, but (eg. GUI) I did not feel it was for 'me'.

Paul

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Re: Groove Agent has lost it's way

Post by Rumdrum » Sun Jan 18, 2015 5:28 pm

AndrasFL wrote:I've just been demoing groove-agent 4 and ez drummer 2. I like them both. Groove agent 4 is a much deeper program. But I think that it's great when you understand how to use it.
I also think that it sounds better than EZ-drummer 2. I tried a lot of different settings on both of them, and every time I preferred the sound of groove agent 4.
So sound vise it's a good product. At least to me.
To me it is the opposite. I find EZDrummer much deeper (at least for the time being) with all the different enclosed accuostic drumsets, very good expansions and MIDI grooves. It has also a more open philosophy, thus many others make grooves and drumsets that EZDrummer can play. Nobody else than Steinberg (so far) makes grooves that fully utilizes the GA software, although you can use General MIDI.

Sound wise I find GA completely unusable compared to EZDrummer. That is EZDrummer 2 (two). I have bought the full version of GA4 and played around a month with it. Wrote a new manual for it to remember how to use the strange GUI in connection with 3. party grooves.

It may be that the EDM part of GA4 is ok. I rarely use that.

For those of us that remember GA2 and 3, 4 is a huge dissapointment.

Support through Toontrack is heaven compared to Steinberg.

The main thing is however that one find something that one is comfortable with, no matter what it is called and no matter what the neighbours oppinion is.
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