Hauptwerk organ - 'no parameters available' when I edit

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SimonD
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Hauptwerk organ - 'no parameters available' when I edit

Post by SimonD » Sat Nov 11, 2017 3:19 pm

I downloaded the free version of the Hauptwerk organ and installed the 64 bit version to try. The name appears as a VSTi so I can create an instrument track but If I edit the instrument it says 'No parameters available'. I presume this is where I should see the Haupwertk screen with patch options. Is there an expert that can advise please. I am running cubasse 8.5 with windows 10 64bit.

djw
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Re: Hauptwerk organ - 'no parameters available' when I edit

Post by djw » Sat Nov 11, 2017 3:20 pm

There is not supposed to be a GUI, it is only an audio/MIDI link.
Last edited by djw on Sat Nov 11, 2017 4:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hauptwerk organ - 'no parameters available' when I edit

Post by SimonD » Sat Nov 11, 2017 3:25 pm

Thanks djw. So how do I get an organ sound and see any options? (if there are any for the free version). I believe in the full version at least you can set the manuals and pedals to different patches.

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Re: Hauptwerk organ - 'no parameters available' when I edit

Post by djw » Sat Nov 11, 2017 4:14 pm

You also have to have the Hauptwerk standalone opened, and set the audio/MIDI options to be linked to the VST. From there you can load one of the organs and set everything up.
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Re: Hauptwerk organ - 'no parameters available' when I edit

Post by SimonD » Sat Nov 11, 2017 5:56 pm

Thank you so much djw. The installer had put a link to the standalone organ app on my desktop. Happy days.

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Re: Hauptwerk organ - 'no parameters available' when I edit

Post by djw » Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:09 pm

It's very cool, you can do a lot with the free version.
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Re: Hauptwerk organ - 'no parameters available' when I edit

Post by SimonD » Mon Nov 13, 2017 3:20 pm

It looks amazing. I've only played the demo so far. My midisport light is flashing when I play my midi keyboard but not triggering the Hauptwerk yet. When I was settign it up it also made me close cubase as it couldn't let me set the asio driver to the Steinberg UR824 interface one otherwise. I'm not too good on midi but I'm guessing I can have cubase and the organ both working if they use different midi channels and audio outs. I'd like to be able to record the midi notes to cubase. I'm not sure where I should look - the organ setup or the cubase setup.

Which version of haupwerk are you using and did you buy any more organ samples?

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Re: Hauptwerk organ - 'no parameters available' when I edit

Post by djw » Fri Nov 24, 2017 3:45 pm

You set the audio output in Hauptwerk to the VST link, not to your audio interface. The audio will then be output by Cubase.

You also set the midi in to be the VST link so it also goes through Cubase.

I didn't buy anything.
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Re: Hauptwerk organ - 'no parameters available' when I edit

Post by SimonD » Fri Nov 24, 2017 4:47 pm

Thanks DJW. I set the Haupwerk midi in and out to be VST link but when I opened cubase 8.5 it wouldn't let me select the steinberg/yamaha asio driver that I normally use for the UR824 interface so defaulting to the generic asio. I created an Hauptwerk instrument track and my external keyboard sends midi info via my midisport box but cubase doesn't indicate it receives the information. In cubase I set the inspector to 'all midi inputs'. Maybe I need to configure cubase differently. I'd appreciate any any ideas.

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Re: Hauptwerk organ - 'no parameters available' when I edit

Post by djw » Fri Nov 24, 2017 11:39 pm

It's more likely it's Hauptwerk you need to configure differently if it's getting exclusive access to your audio hardware.
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Re: Hauptwerk organ - 'no parameters available' when I edit

Post by SimonD » Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:20 am

A (probable) final word from me just to help any other. Thanks to DJW for starting me on the right path and I'm now sorted. The FREE version of the Hauptwerk virtual church organ is amazing. Depending on how many keyboards you have you can mimic the real thing triggering of multiple manuals of keys. You can trigger the stops and couplers. The sound is fantastic. This is not a toy or hugely cut down version. It is a very carefully thought out bit of kit for professional organ enthusiasts and amateurs alike. Once you've downloaded the zip file fomr the Hauptwerk site and installed it go to the sites documentation and look at page 189 of Hauptwerk User Guide v4.2.1 Section called Composing pieces off-line from a MIDI sequencer configured conventionally. This section tells you how to set up the midi. (don't copy me! I tried without the manual and got it all wrong). Note the free version is 16 bit so you need to ensure your cubase project is set to this. It appears as a midi instrument. I haven't quite figured how to set up a second external keyboard but expect will do tomorrow. Also had fun using cubase chord track for the first time to tell me what chords I'd been playing on the organ!! Cubase 8.5 is so clever. Hope I can sleep with all this adrenalin flowing. I hope you have as much fun with this as I have. I think the company needs paying for this so will probably upgrade though i wont have to for a while as there are a wealth of sound combinations here.

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Re: Hauptwerk organ - 'no parameters available' when I edit

Post by SimonD » Sun Dec 03, 2017 2:37 am

Hey DJW, have you managed to send program control changes form cubase to the Hauptwerk to control stops etc. I haven't got much of a clue. I added a program change event to the list editor setting data1 to 1 and data 2 to 1 and channel to 7. When I right click on a stop to match it to the program change event and choose 'adjust midi/trigger settigns manually for stop ...' I can't tell how to set this up. I thought maybe the 'Input' was set to ''Generic Midi control changes' . The options often have preceeding zeros which the list editor doesn't seem to allow. I've attached a screen shot showing the list editor and my attempt at 'primar'y input settings for one of the stops. Oddly enough I found values in my chord track in this project where triggering stop changes. Been trying to understand this mechansim as it may help but can't find any sysex data corresponding to chord track chord symbols. Be grateful of any pointers if you've cracked this. I'm not really very knowledgeable about midi control data. Thanks.
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Re: Hauptwerk organ - 'no parameters available' when I edit

Post by rschmid » Sat Feb 03, 2018 3:57 pm

I use HW as one of many VST instruments - most often to record a hymn with organ, brass, and tympani.

Since HW is not a true VST instrument, I've resorted to a couple of non-ideal methods to record it.

1. Record HW stop changes using mouse clicks to make the changes rather than an external controller. If an external controller is used, CB will record its midi events, and HW will not recognize them since the midi device appears to be different to HW. I have created a library of midi files that contain just HW program changes. I compress the events start times by using the list editor, and then import them into different projects.

2. I set the HW stops prior to starting recording, record the sections of music that use that registration in CB, and then render the parts to audio. Repeat with the next registration until done. This is the method I generally use, since #1 is fussy and takes a lot of time.
CP Pro 9.5.1, Win 10 Pro on Intel 17-6700 3.4 Ghz, 32 Gb mem, 500 Gb SSD, 2 Tb disc 7200 rpm, Nvidia 745 graphics card; Steinberg UR824
Primary VSTs: Various EastWest, Native Instruments, Spitfire Audio, Amplesound, Steinberg Absolute 3, Hauptwerk

SimonD
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Re: Hauptwerk organ - 'no parameters available' when I edit

Post by SimonD » Sat Feb 03, 2018 5:08 pm

Thanks for that useful info Rschmid. I've since tried recording the stop change midi data but also by rightclicking on a stop there's an option to assign the action to something. There's a learn function though I couldn't get this to work. I'd be interest to know if you've tried Grande Orgue. My search for free organ samples led me to GO and at first glance it seems extremely like Haupwerk and is free. YOu have to load a sample set as there isn't one provided as there is with HW but there are a lot of free sets online. What's more I got the 'learn' option to work and be able to assign simple midi actions to stop actions. Still all very new to me!

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Re: Hauptwerk organ - 'no parameters available' when I edit

Post by rschmid » Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:27 pm

I use a Novation Launchpad with HW to set stops, and use the right click midi learn functionality to assign the Launchpad's buttons to HW Stops. However this seems to work only when using HW as a standalone app. I have not been able to record Launchpad events in Cubase and then have HW recognize them as learned midi events when Cubase plays back. Instead HW treats the Launchpad events as midi note events and plays them. I assuming this is because the Launchpad's device ID that was captured by HW's midi learn function is not retained in the recorded midi data.

I did recently download Grande Orgue, but since I am primarily looking to record a pipe organ and to my knowledge GO does not have VST capability, I haven't spent much time with it.

One other thing to be aware of is HW wants your midi controllers to be directly connected to HW, which means you need to disable them in Cubase and turn Midi-Thru off in user preferences. If you don't, the results can be unpredictable. You may record double notes or hear nothing from HW depending on which app has grabbed the devices. Since this in itself is a PITA, I record HW first, render, then turn the midi devices and midi thru back on in Cubase to record the rest of the tracks.
CP Pro 9.5.1, Win 10 Pro on Intel 17-6700 3.4 Ghz, 32 Gb mem, 500 Gb SSD, 2 Tb disc 7200 rpm, Nvidia 745 graphics card; Steinberg UR824
Primary VSTs: Various EastWest, Native Instruments, Spitfire Audio, Amplesound, Steinberg Absolute 3, Hauptwerk

SimonD
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Re: Hauptwerk organ - 'no parameters available' when I edit

Post by SimonD » Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:13 pm

Re Novation just a guess as I'm not a midi expert but maybe if the Novation and Hauptwerk note data could ber put on different channels their interpretation wouldn't be confused .

I hadn't appreciated GO didn't have VST capability. I had wanted to record midi data, correct errors then play back and record the audio in Cubase.

Thanks for the warning re the midi controller issue, that's good to know in advance! Hey I see you use UR824. One gripe I have is that when you want to record a sound while hearing it affected by say delay/chorus/reverb/distortion but record it dry, the direct monitoring option has limited effects. I'm wondering how best to do this without introducing signal lag. I play guitar better using effected sound but may need to adjust the effect in the final mix. Any ideas?

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Re: Hauptwerk organ - 'no parameters available' when I edit

Post by rschmid » Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:46 pm

You can record midi using HW's recorder and then import the midi file into Cubase. This process creates two tracks in CB - one track with the midi notes and a second track with program changes. Whether this is ideal for you depends on what your desired end result is. If you simply need to clean up a live organ performance, i.e. fix a few caught keys, this will work fine. If you want to expand the performance into an arrangement it can be problematical aligning the HW file to CB's grid. It is also a problem if you record multiple tracks of pipe organ, i.e. separate tracks for melody and bass, so you can mix them or assign the parts to different or additional voices.

Regarding the UR824, I have ASIO buffer set to 192 which gives me about an 8 msec lag with my computer, which IMO is sufficient for live playing and singing. You could try reducing the buffer size when recording, then increasing it when mixing. That used to be the standard mode of operation before equipment got faster.

On a similar subject, regarding midi latency, I use a small track delay offset with HW prior to rendering. HW has a slower response than normal VSTs. In user preferences, I have set Midi->Extend Playback Range of Notes that start before the part" and Record->Audio "Audio Pre-Record Seconds" to help when samples have slow attack times where I tend to play ahead of the beat as a result. These help eliminate "beat jumping" issues when cutting and pasting blocks, or when using the arranger track.
CP Pro 9.5.1, Win 10 Pro on Intel 17-6700 3.4 Ghz, 32 Gb mem, 500 Gb SSD, 2 Tb disc 7200 rpm, Nvidia 745 graphics card; Steinberg UR824
Primary VSTs: Various EastWest, Native Instruments, Spitfire Audio, Amplesound, Steinberg Absolute 3, Hauptwerk

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Re: Hauptwerk organ - 'no parameters available' when I edit

Post by SimonD » Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:13 pm

Thank you so much for this useful information.

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