RE: Nuendo 5.5 - WorkFlow Efficiency When Compsing to Video

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Firepan
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RE: Nuendo 5.5 - WorkFlow Efficiency When Compsing to Video

Post by Firepan » Tue Feb 14, 2012 9:29 pm

Hi There -

Okay here's the story.

Just landed my first Ad Campaign composing gig. Put together three five minute pieces of music for a major car manufacturer to use in their branding videos for a new vehicle. The good new is that I submitted three temp tracks (actually completed pieces), without video reference, which the client loves and is using. Yes!

So here is my question for all you experienced folks:

This is the first time I have done any work in Nuendo with video. I bought the DAW for this day, and now I need a quick education on the best way to work efficiently.

The client has sent me back the completed videos that included different sections of the three pieces of music I created for their campaign. All of them start with about one minute from the same piece, and they each differ a bit after that with regards to musical arrangement. My job will be to take bits and pieces of each of my sessions and align and sweeten based on the video editors arrangements of my music.

The videos have been delivered to me as QuickTime (29.97) with a music/VO track. I have imported the vids into Nundo without issue and all is good from that standpoint.

Questions:
- What will be the best way for me to approach this?
- Should I produce stems of the mixed pieces and import them into one session that has all four vids? Then do my edits
and musical adds?
- What ruler format(s) should I use to get the most precision alignment for my edits? Each piece of music is a little bit
different tempo. I assume I should set up a tempo track to ensure ease of editing?
- Should I use Musical or Linear time base?
- Any other considerations?

All help is sincerely appreciated. This is a good break for my fledgling company, and I want to ensure I deliver the completed edited music by deadline, which is this coming Friday.... Yee Haw.

Thanks,
Mike

HW = Rain ION Studio: Win7 64bit | 16G Ram / i7 860 @ 2.8 Ghz Quad Core / Dual 24" Display / Multiple Monitors / RME 9562 / Apogee Rosetta 800

SW = Nuendo 6.0.6 64Bit / Wavelab 7 / Multiple VIs: Kontak Etc...

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Re: RE: Nuendo 5.5 - WorkFlow Efficiency When Compsing to Video

Post by Kid Dropper Sound » Tue Feb 14, 2012 11:17 pm

Congratulations!

here's what I'd do.

To make life easier for you and those downstream while also being prepared for the unknown..

Go to your original music session and stem out the whole song into manageable food groups. Any musical tweeks you want to do should be done first.

These stems, at unity, should more or less equal your mix. if it doesn't, go back to step one or make global changes with clip volume etc. Edit these stems to picture to match the picture editors work, then clean up the edits to make them smooth and musical.

Music adds and samples will go on a new track and get they're own stem.

Now you can prepare new stems for each track that are locked to each picture edit. These can be sent on to the mix. Rule of thumb.. always assume the next person down the line is way to busy to figure anything out. include 2sec sync pops and keep it simple.

If you are doing the mix also.. I'd still suggest you do it this way. Especially when picture is involved, and especially especially when multi versions are involved.. having tangible pieces such as finite labelled audio files helps.
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Re: RE: Nuendo 5.5 - WorkFlow Efficiency When Compsing to Video

Post by Firepan » Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:11 am

Hi There -

Thank you for your response, it is very helpful. Let me ensure I am clear on everything.

Stem out at unity: For plain musical work I do, I typically create separation (into groups. i.e. Drums, Bass, Vox, Instruments etc) of my final mix. The mastering guy I use does HD separation mastering; he masters each separation and the total is a final two track of my mix all mastered per separation. I assume you are recommending that I follow this same process here and create the separations of the mixed temp tracks for import into each vid session. Correct?

Four videos: Are you suggesting that I bring these stems of each tune into each video session for editing/arranging?
Should I create a tempo track for lining things up?

2Sec Synch Pop: Huh? Sorry, this is a bit new. How do I do that? Also, these videos have no SMPTE etc and start at zero. Should I just start every thing about three seconds into to create room for the synch pop?

Send to mix: Just to be sure, are you suggesting I get everything arranged and editing for each video and then export that music as stems to a new mix session for final sweetening and mixing?

Man, I seriously appreciate your help. BTW.... Wen to your site. Your reel is great. Thank you for taking time to help me.

Mike
Mike

HW = Rain ION Studio: Win7 64bit | 16G Ram / i7 860 @ 2.8 Ghz Quad Core / Dual 24" Display / Multiple Monitors / RME 9562 / Apogee Rosetta 800

SW = Nuendo 6.0.6 64Bit / Wavelab 7 / Multiple VIs: Kontak Etc...

Plugs = UAD, Sound Toys, Waves, Voxengo, Sonnox, etc

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Re: RE: Nuendo 5.5 - WorkFlow Efficiency When Compsing to Video

Post by Sunshy » Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:26 am

Are you editing your existing music to fit the video now? That can be a pain in the neck. If you're going to be doing any time streching etc. you'll want your tracks in musical mode. I've had to do this before and since the editor cut right in the middle of a phrase, I had to put a 5/4 bar in the middle where the music built up to the hit and also use Time Warp to hit the mark. You might also want to look up "process tempo."
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Re: RE: Nuendo 5.5 - WorkFlow Efficiency When Compsing to Video

Post by Firepan » Wed Feb 15, 2012 1:29 am

..actually, I'm prepping dinner for my wife for V-Day. :)

I will do all the stem exports later this evening and begin all the editing etc. early tomorrow morning.

So stay in musical mode and use tempo process? Fortunately, there are no vocals and where they made existing cuts are in good spots.

So, should I import the stems from all three pieces of music into each vid session and edit away?
Mike

HW = Rain ION Studio: Win7 64bit | 16G Ram / i7 860 @ 2.8 Ghz Quad Core / Dual 24" Display / Multiple Monitors / RME 9562 / Apogee Rosetta 800

SW = Nuendo 6.0.6 64Bit / Wavelab 7 / Multiple VIs: Kontak Etc...

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Re: RE: Nuendo 5.5 - WorkFlow Efficiency When Compsing to Video

Post by Kid Dropper Sound » Wed Feb 15, 2012 5:20 am

2pop = a beep that is 1 frame long. You place this beep precisely 2 seconds prior to the first frame of what the viewer will see in the end. This way.. anyone can blindly step into the job and KNOW 100% that if they line up the beeps in your stems and start your files 2 seconds before the first frame of the video.. they will get what you intended.

Videos don't always come with a 2pop unless they're coming from an experienced house. Take the high road and deliver your stuff back with the proper sync points.

(also a 2pop is 2seconds, always, it doesn't matter what the frame rate is.)
Video 1, 29.97, first frame at 01.00.00.00
Your files will start at 00.59.58.00 with a beep and 2 seconds of silence
Sounds tracks don't always start with sound immediately, there can be deliberate silence at the begining. The 2pop lets' the video department know where to cut.

Stem out at unity means.. all the files you're export, when stacked in a new session, will sound exactly like your 2track version that the client has approved.

After you stem out, I would bring them into a session that contains ALL the different videos. Do a separate edit of the stems for each video based on the needs of that versions. This will make things easier for you when revisions come back. Having it all in one place is best


"Send to mix: Just to be sure, are you suggesting I get everything arranged and editing for each video and then export that music as stems to a new mix session for final sweetening and mixing? "

Only if you are sending your work to another mixer that will do the final broadcast version. If you are doing it, then you can do the mix in the edit session you've created, nothing wrong with that.

A composer that works with tempo maps might be better equipped to help you with that stuff than me, but what I've layed out is the organization. Sweep - Then mop. Prep your bits, match their edit, clean up.. then mix and sweeten.
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Re: RE: Nuendo 5.5 - WorkFlow Efficiency When Compsing to Video

Post by Sunshy » Wed Feb 15, 2012 7:19 am

All good advice (as usual) from Kid. If the music editor did a good job and cut at downbeats, that makes your life easier. The problems come in when they say something like, "We want a hard out now instead of a fade out," and that hard out doesn't fall in a good musical place (BTW, I meant musical phrase before, not necessarily a vocal part, which can still be a problem if you're in the middle of a melody).

You can tackle these in many ways: time stretch the music to fit, (but then other points might not hit where you want--and audio quality might suffer), add/subtract bars (keeping in mind that you may have to try to make a 2/4 or 5/4 measure in a 4/4 piece sound like it was meant to be there), use the process tempo function (if there are tempo changes) etc. I've even music editors slice up every beat of a song and compress the timing. Yikes!

Luckily, I find that at least 50% of the time, "dumb luck" plays a part and you can do something simple like add a measure or take one out and it works out well.
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Re: RE: Nuendo 5.5 - WorkFlow Efficiency When Compsing to Video

Post by Firepan » Wed Feb 15, 2012 7:32 am

Thank you so much for all the help.

Is there a generator for the 2sec pop sound. Or can it be a metronome beep or something?v

Man, i really appreciate all of the help. I start on this in the a.m. and the information you've provide will be a great help. I guess the best way to learn is go in and get it. I typically like to go in at least knowing were there are some lurkers. :)

Once again thank you, and if you think of anything else I should know I 'll be checking back frequently.

Peace,

Mike
Mike

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SW = Nuendo 6.0.6 64Bit / Wavelab 7 / Multiple VIs: Kontak Etc...

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Re: RE: Nuendo 5.5 - WorkFlow Efficiency When Compsing to Video

Post by Kid Dropper Sound » Wed Feb 15, 2012 7:33 am

Hopefully, the video department hasn't made a non musical horrible edit and then cut there video hard to those edits... :roll: That's my favorite!
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Re: RE: Nuendo 5.5 - WorkFlow Efficiency When Compsing to Video

Post by Chewy Papadopoulos » Wed Feb 15, 2012 8:12 am

There are 2-pops all over the web, ready to download. Check out the wikipedia entry!

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Re: RE: Nuendo 5.5 - WorkFlow Efficiency When Compsing to Video

Post by maxhowarth » Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:20 am

best wishes
max

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Re: RE: Nuendo 5.5 - WorkFlow Efficiency When Compsing to Video

Post by Firepan » Wed Feb 15, 2012 3:50 pm

This is great. Thanks for everyone's help.
Mike

HW = Rain ION Studio: Win7 64bit | 16G Ram / i7 860 @ 2.8 Ghz Quad Core / Dual 24" Display / Multiple Monitors / RME 9562 / Apogee Rosetta 800

SW = Nuendo 6.0.6 64Bit / Wavelab 7 / Multiple VIs: Kontak Etc...

Plugs = UAD, Sound Toys, Waves, Voxengo, Sonnox, etc

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Re: RE: Nuendo 5.5 - WorkFlow Efficiency When Compsing to Video

Post by Firepan » Wed Feb 15, 2012 8:36 pm

Okay.... So the stemming part.

Is there a fast way to batch export my stems and retain the EFX? I use AUXs for my reverbs and delays. I can batch export the groups no problem; however, everything is dry.

So I am stemming by muting everything but what I want and exporting.

Any recommendation for the fastest way to stem out and have a mix with all EFX?

I can batch export the EFX channels, too, but if I do a cut on a track in the editing session, I will have to edit the EFX channel track and will loose any other instruments that may have been bussed to it.

Is my question clear?
Mike

HW = Rain ION Studio: Win7 64bit | 16G Ram / i7 860 @ 2.8 Ghz Quad Core / Dual 24" Display / Multiple Monitors / RME 9562 / Apogee Rosetta 800

SW = Nuendo 6.0.6 64Bit / Wavelab 7 / Multiple VIs: Kontak Etc...

Plugs = UAD, Sound Toys, Waves, Voxengo, Sonnox, etc

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