VCA's and Groups and Links

Post general topics related to Nuendo 6 here.
User avatar
MattiasNYC
Grand Senior Member
Posts: 3776
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 9:27 am
Contact:

VCA's and Groups and Links

Post by MattiasNYC » Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:40 pm

I'm a bit curious about this one. The responses so far have been very unclear (unless I missed some or am completely stupid and simply didn't get what was said to me, which is entirely possible).

VCA's:

I'm looking at the Nuendo 6 "mixing" video on the website, and at roughly 45 seconds they click the dropdown menu that says "Channel Types". In it I see

input
audio
instrument
midi
group
fx
rewire
output

and NOT VCA channels. So the question is obvious. Were VCA channels included in Nuendo 6 or not?

Channel Groups:

Again, watching the video I see absolutely nothing hinting at channel groups having been included. When I write "groups" I mean actual groups of channels, not parameters, groups that can be named and independently and/or globally turned on/off like in Pro Tools.

The benefit of this should be obvious, but to clarify the difference between the OLD Nuendo link behavior and PT's way of working: In old Nuendo when linking channels there was no indication as to which channels were part of which "set" if you had more than one "set of linked channels". So if I had a fairly large project and on the fly chose to link for example three background vocal tracks and later two different background vocal tracks, out of several more, a different engineer would have no idea which of the tracks that were linked belonged to the first or second set. Further more the management of the "sets" was completely rudimentary and insufficient. In contrast in PT each group (of faders) has it's own color coding on both mixer and edit windows, it's own "letter" assigned to it, can be independently switched on / off and one can open up the group edit window to select groups, add/delete tracks from it, change attributes etc.

The obvious question here is: If Nuendo 6 has actual "channel groups" what is its functionality?

Linked channels:

If we're stuck without real channel groups the questions I have are simply what visual cues I will be given by the software that a set of parameters have been linked and what options I have to add/delete and switch on/off those "sets" of linked parameters/channels.



Looking forward to some straightforward explanation on this.

Thanks
Nuendo 7.1.4 / Lynx TWO-B / Windows 10 Pro 64-bit / Ryzen 1700 3.7GHz (oc) / 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4@3200MHz / Nvidia GTX 660 / ASUS x370-A mobo/ 500GB WD Blue system drive / Crucial BX100 250GB SSD media / spinners for library/backup ::::: iZotope RX / Phoenixverb Surround / DaVinci Resolve / Faderport / Applied Acoustics UltraAnalog / my pet pony Frank

Robin Walsh
Member
Posts: 342
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:13 am
Contact:

Re: VCA's and Groups and Links

Post by Robin Walsh » Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:06 pm

Yes please..

Can we have a clear, straight and definitive answer on N6 and VCA's?

Thanks,
Robin
Nuendo 10.02 - Windows 10 - i9 9900K - nVidia GeForce 1060 - RME Raydat - Amphion

User avatar
Fredo
External Moderator
Posts: 2467
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 11:20 am
Contact:

Re: VCA's and Groups and Links

Post by Fredo » Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:30 am

VCA's are planned, but aren't in the initial release.


Fredo

User avatar
Hopetown
Member
Posts: 258
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 6:58 am
Contact:

Re: VCA's and Groups and Links

Post by Hopetown » Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:37 am

I had asked the same question in my post and gotten silence. This was a major oversight. Glad to hear they are planned at least. I realize you can't please everyone on every release but this feature is one that I think had universal support across music and post and frankly is just a bit embarrassing to have a DAW of this complexity without. There are many features I would trade in favor of this one.
Pier Giacalone
Hopetown Sound Recording Studio
Doylestown, PA
http://www.hopetownsound.com

Nuendo 10.2 : 27" 4.2ghz 5K Imac (i7), 32g RAM | OSX 10.14.6 : Lynx Aurora (n) 24 Ch TB | Wavelab 10

Robin Walsh
Member
Posts: 342
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:13 am
Contact:

Re: VCA's and Groups and Links

Post by Robin Walsh » Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:34 am

Fredo wrote:VCA's are planned, but aren't in the initial release.


Fredo

Thanks for that Fredo. Looking forward to working with N6 and the future developments.

Robin
Nuendo 10.02 - Windows 10 - i9 9900K - nVidia GeForce 1060 - RME Raydat - Amphion

User avatar
Fredo
External Moderator
Posts: 2467
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 11:20 am
Contact:

Re: VCA's and Groups and Links

Post by Fredo » Sat Nov 17, 2012 3:32 pm

Here's a screenshot which will answer some questions regarding grouping and linking.
Groups.jpg
(341.82 KiB) Not downloaded yet

Fredo

User avatar
Domilik
Member
Posts: 411
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 9:58 am
Contact:

Re: VCA's and Groups and Links

Post by Domilik » Sat Nov 17, 2012 3:51 pm

Thanks, Fredo, and by the way this seems to be a mixer-screenshot from a screen with a more standard pixel-resolution...?
Nuendo 7 | Win7 x64, Intel i7 6700k, Asus Z170-A | RME Fireface 802 | RME Babyface | Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 | Yamaha 01v96i | JBL LSR4328 | Tannoy Revial 6 | Avid S3 | Mackie Control Universal | X-Keys Joystick | BCR 2000 | Novation Nocturn | Pro Tools 12 HD

User avatar
Fredo
External Moderator
Posts: 2467
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 11:20 am
Contact:

Re: VCA's and Groups and Links

Post by Fredo » Sat Nov 17, 2012 3:59 pm

My screens are 1920 x 1080.
The mixer wasn't fullscreen in that screenshot though.

The mixer "sizes" in good quality to any size of screen. So there are no "fixed" dimentions anymore.
You can make each aspect as big or small of you want, without loss of "resolution".
Meaning that you can customize, save and recall, the mixer to your specific needs.
It takes a while to get used to it, and as with every change it feels a bit strange.
But as soon as you get over the fact that we are all old and grumpy farts, who don't want anything we like to be changed, the mixer is a real improvement. Flexibility is the keyword here.

Fredo

User avatar
MattiasNYC
Grand Senior Member
Posts: 3776
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 9:27 am
Contact:

Re: VCA's and Groups and Links

Post by MattiasNYC » Sat Nov 17, 2012 4:12 pm

Fredo wrote:Meaning that you can customize, save and recall, the mixer to your specific needs.
It takes a while to get used to it, and as with every change it feels a bit strange.
But as soon as you get over the fact that we are all old and grumpy farts, who don't want anything we like to be changed, the mixer is a real improvement. Flexibility is the keyword here.

Fredo
Could you give a real-world example of how one would benefit from this? I'm just trying to wrap my head around some of the priorities made by SB and I'm just curious how this is an important new feature compared to other functionality.
Nuendo 7.1.4 / Lynx TWO-B / Windows 10 Pro 64-bit / Ryzen 1700 3.7GHz (oc) / 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4@3200MHz / Nvidia GTX 660 / ASUS x370-A mobo/ 500GB WD Blue system drive / Crucial BX100 250GB SSD media / spinners for library/backup ::::: iZotope RX / Phoenixverb Surround / DaVinci Resolve / Faderport / Applied Acoustics UltraAnalog / my pet pony Frank

User avatar
Fredo
External Moderator
Posts: 2467
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 11:20 am
Contact:

Re: VCA's and Groups and Links

Post by Fredo » Sat Nov 17, 2012 5:21 pm

Lydiot wrote: Could you give a real-world example of how one would benefit from this? I'm just trying to wrap my head around some of the priorities made by SB and I'm just curious how this is an important new feature compared to other functionality.
To name an extreme, so you het the picture.
When working on a laptop, you cna now have a (mixer) fader row on the bottom of your screen.
Or a meter row, or the insert/send row ...
A big view of the Channel strip^with small faders, or the other way around.
You can "design" the mixer exactly to your needs.

Fredo

User avatar
MattiasNYC
Grand Senior Member
Posts: 3776
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 9:27 am
Contact:

Re: VCA's and Groups and Links

Post by MattiasNYC » Sat Nov 17, 2012 6:12 pm

Fredo wrote:
Lydiot wrote: Could you give a real-world example of how one would benefit from this? I'm just trying to wrap my head around some of the priorities made by SB and I'm just curious how this is an important new feature compared to other functionality.
To name an extreme, so you het the picture.
When working on a laptop, you cna now have a (mixer) fader row on the bottom of your screen.
Or a meter row, or the insert/send row ...
A big view of the Channel strip^with small faders, or the other way around.
You can "design" the mixer exactly to your needs.

Fredo
Ok. Well to me this seems convenient but pales in comparison to VCA's and the ability to correctly import an .aaf so you actually have something to use the resizable mixer feature on in the first place.
Nuendo 7.1.4 / Lynx TWO-B / Windows 10 Pro 64-bit / Ryzen 1700 3.7GHz (oc) / 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4@3200MHz / Nvidia GTX 660 / ASUS x370-A mobo/ 500GB WD Blue system drive / Crucial BX100 250GB SSD media / spinners for library/backup ::::: iZotope RX / Phoenixverb Surround / DaVinci Resolve / Faderport / Applied Acoustics UltraAnalog / my pet pony Frank

psvennevig
Member
Posts: 344
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 11:12 pm
Contact:

Re: VCA's and Groups and Links

Post by psvennevig » Sat Nov 17, 2012 7:23 pm

VCAs are planned it was said, so lets drop that for now.

Groups/Links is what Fredo showed in the screenshot. Can't we discuss that instead?

As for the .aaf I agree with you. It should just work.

Groups/Links actually is quite good. You have colors numbers, you can link most parameters and it works.
You also have "adhoc" linking, which makes the need for VCA a little less needed, but still needed.

Give it a chance maybe?

P
Nuendo 7.0.x, nMP 8-core with 2xD700, 64GB, Macbook Pro Retina15" i7, RME UFX, RME Babyface, Artist Mix, Control and Transport, CC121.

User avatar
MattiasNYC
Grand Senior Member
Posts: 3776
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 9:27 am
Contact:

Re: VCA's and Groups and Links

Post by MattiasNYC » Sat Nov 17, 2012 7:54 pm

psvennevig wrote:VCAs are planned it was said, so lets drop that for now.
It's been requested and planned for a while I think. Like I said, strange priorities. My thread so I don't think I need to "drop that for now".
psvennevig wrote:Groups/Links is what Fredo showed in the screenshot. Can't we discuss that instead?
Ok. It's better. Like others I'm still not sure why they simply didn't adapt PT's way of doing it.
psvennevig wrote:Give it a chance maybe?
Sure, I most certainly will, and it's an improvement. I wish they could have included labeling though. Seems odd to me though that they'd leave out labeling of the groups. In PT, as has been pointed out, part of the issue is control, i.e. being able to control several tracks by actively just controlling one. The other part has to do with organization. So if you want to make focus on a group by making it alone visible for example then in PT it's easier because you can use the name of the group or use the VCA to get that done. If I understand this new updated linking I would, in a large project, have to identify and look at a track part of the group that I wish to see in the mixer for example, or have to remember which number corresponds to which set of channels. Simple naming would have solved at least that problem, wouldn't you agree?
Nuendo 7.1.4 / Lynx TWO-B / Windows 10 Pro 64-bit / Ryzen 1700 3.7GHz (oc) / 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4@3200MHz / Nvidia GTX 660 / ASUS x370-A mobo/ 500GB WD Blue system drive / Crucial BX100 250GB SSD media / spinners for library/backup ::::: iZotope RX / Phoenixverb Surround / DaVinci Resolve / Faderport / Applied Acoustics UltraAnalog / my pet pony Frank

psvennevig
Member
Posts: 344
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 11:12 pm
Contact:

Re: VCA's and Groups and Links

Post by psvennevig » Sat Nov 17, 2012 8:00 pm

Yes
Nuendo 7.0.x, nMP 8-core with 2xD700, 64GB, Macbook Pro Retina15" i7, RME UFX, RME Babyface, Artist Mix, Control and Transport, CC121.

User avatar
Chewy Papadopoulos
Member
Posts: 773
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 7:37 pm
Contact:

Re: VCA's and Groups and Links

Post by Chewy Papadopoulos » Sat Nov 17, 2012 8:15 pm

FWIW, for my purposes the resizable mixer, at least in concept, is a humongous positive development. I've been wanting this sort of thing for a (long+long)X time.

Not going to go off the deep end about it without some practical experience, but really look forward to improved window management in general. That (and the grace period update :) ) were major reasons for moving forward to N6.

Other enhancements, even if now only on paper, are more than "just gravy", either. I use Nx for so many different things-- post sound, composing, audiobook recording and editing and more-- the versatility is key to my being able to get things done.

And yes, here's to getting some of those missing fundamentals that linger from long-ago versions finally taken care of.

Chewy
N10x, C8, Cubasis, Halion, UAD-2s (Quad PCI, Satellite & SOLO/Laptop), Fireface 800, UR-22, MC Control, MacPro 12 core 3.46GHz, 64 Gigs RAM OS 10.14.4; MacBook Pro 4 core, 16 Gigs, OS 10.13.6

User avatar
Fredo
External Moderator
Posts: 2467
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 11:20 am
Contact:

Re: VCA's and Groups and Links

Post by Fredo » Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:08 am

Lydiot wrote:
Ok. Well to me this seems convenient but pales in comparison to VCA's and the ability to correctly import an .aaf so you actually have something to use the resizable mixer feature on in the first place.
Don't know if you have noticed, but the new mixer was (also) needed for complementing the new hardware. Which was another one of those long time *must have* requests.

I'm sure that if everyone could "design" his/her own DAW, they all would be very different. What is a priority for you might be a total waste of time for someone else, and vice versa. In other words, you will always find something to complain about. It will never be perfect. Let's have some respect for features that benefits others. Although I agree with you that AAF must be fixed ASAP, I do not agree that this update without VCA.s is a total waste. The new linking features come very close to VCA's and will fulfill the needs of most users. There will always be something that is crucially missing. I predict that, as soon as we have VCA.s, it will pale in comparison to the need of playlists and session import data.


Fredo

User avatar
MattiasNYC
Grand Senior Member
Posts: 3776
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 9:27 am
Contact:

Re: VCA's and Groups and Links

Post by MattiasNYC » Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:34 pm

Fredo wrote:
Lydiot wrote:
Ok. Well to me this seems convenient but pales in comparison to VCA's and the ability to correctly import an .aaf so you actually have something to use the resizable mixer feature on in the first place.
Don't know if you have noticed, but the new mixer was (also) needed for complementing the new hardware. Which was another one of those long time *must have* requests.
This is a very good point. I stand corrected.
Fredo wrote:Although I agree with you that AAF must be fixed ASAP, I do not agree that this update without VCA.s is a total waste.
Well, I never said it's a total waste without VCAs, so kindly stop implying I said things I never said.

As for AAF files however any Nuendo version without proper .aaf import is by definition close to useless unless one uses an application outside of it to get the media inside somehow. This is just plain logic. Market as a post app, post guys use .aafs to get media, Nuendo doesn't import .aafs, Nuendo doesn't have the media, nothing to work on - literally.

But no, I didn't say it was "a total waste" without VCAs.
Fredo wrote:The new linking features come very close to VCA's and will fulfill the needs of most users. There will always be something that is crucially missing. I predict that, as soon as we have VCA.s, it will pale in comparison to the need of playlists and session import data.


Fredo
I actually agree with you that many people most certainly would prioritize playlists and session import data over further VCA functionality. So my point was broader than just these two examples.

Again, I stand corrected on the resizing of the mixer view. You made a good point. And I do think it looks like a fantastic upgrade overall, in case I didn't make that clear in any thread, and, business permitting, this upgrade is a no-brainer for me.




Now, while you're here: If I install a version after 5.1 where can I find the "AAFFilter component folder from Nuendo 5.1" on Win 7 x64? I'd like to try using it instead.
Nuendo 7.1.4 / Lynx TWO-B / Windows 10 Pro 64-bit / Ryzen 1700 3.7GHz (oc) / 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4@3200MHz / Nvidia GTX 660 / ASUS x370-A mobo/ 500GB WD Blue system drive / Crucial BX100 250GB SSD media / spinners for library/backup ::::: iZotope RX / Phoenixverb Surround / DaVinci Resolve / Faderport / Applied Acoustics UltraAnalog / my pet pony Frank

User avatar
Fredo
External Moderator
Posts: 2467
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 11:20 am
Contact:

Re: VCA's and Groups and Links

Post by Fredo » Sun Nov 18, 2012 6:58 pm

5.1 and 5.5 are separate installs, they both have their own folder, and you can fire up any of the two whenever you want. So, you can import the AAF in any of the two versions that work. ( remember that it depeqnds from which Mediacomposer the AAF's come from) The AAF folder is located in the Components folder of each Nuendo version, Hich you can find in the Steinberg folder in Program Files. So -if you really want to have the 5.1AAF filer intso 5.5, just swap the AAF folder. I am pretty sure it works. But the most simple way is just to fire up the Nuendo version you need.

Fredo

Oliver.Lucas
Senior Member
Posts: 1395
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 11:26 pm
Contact:

Re: VCA's and Groups and Links

Post by Oliver.Lucas » Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:02 pm

Fredo wrote:. So -if you really want to have the 5.1AAF filer intso 5.5, just swap the AAF folder. I am pretty sure it works.
Fredo
100% no it does not work in the mac version!

Ollie
Main machine: Fireface UFX+ 64GB, 2TB Hecacore macmini 10.14.x, egpu
Avid ProTools Ulitimate and S3. A gazillion plugings

davidgamson
Junior Member
Posts: 65
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 9:06 pm
Contact:

Re: VCA's and Groups and Links

Post by davidgamson » Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:26 pm

Big question for me on linked parameters...do we finally get parameters linked in the arrange page as well as the mix page? The way it works in PT for instance....Can we insert automation on the arrange page via mouse and keyboard and have the same automation reflected in the linked track? At the moment ..the only way to insert the same data on to multiple linked channels is to move the faders. personally...i rarely use the mix page. Anyone know if this has been addressed?

psvennevig
Member
Posts: 344
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 11:12 pm
Contact:

Re: VCA's and Groups and Links

Post by psvennevig » Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:36 pm

davidgamson wrote:Big question for me on linked parameters...do we finally get parameters linked in the arrange page as well as the mix page? The way it works in PT for instance....Can we insert automation on the arrange page via mouse and keyboard and have the same automation reflected in the linked track? At the moment ..the only way to insert the same data on to multiple linked channels is to move the faders. personally...i rarely use the mix page. Anyone know if this has been addressed?
No, this hasn't been addressed.
Nuendo 7.0.x, nMP 8-core with 2xD700, 64GB, Macbook Pro Retina15" i7, RME UFX, RME Babyface, Artist Mix, Control and Transport, CC121.

davidgamson
Junior Member
Posts: 65
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 9:06 pm
Contact:

Re: VCA's and Groups and Links

Post by davidgamson » Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:40 pm

Ugh! Thanks for the reply. How frustrating!

User avatar
MattiasNYC
Grand Senior Member
Posts: 3776
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 9:27 am
Contact:

Re: VCA's and Groups and Links

Post by MattiasNYC » Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:27 pm

psvennevig wrote:
davidgamson wrote:Big question for me on linked parameters...do we finally get parameters linked in the arrange page as well as the mix page? The way it works in PT for instance....Can we insert automation on the arrange page via mouse and keyboard and have the same automation reflected in the linked track? At the moment ..the only way to insert the same data on to multiple linked channels is to move the faders. personally...i rarely use the mix page. Anyone know if this has been addressed?
No, this hasn't been addressed.
Wait; how do you know it hasn't? Have they made that clear?
Nuendo 7.1.4 / Lynx TWO-B / Windows 10 Pro 64-bit / Ryzen 1700 3.7GHz (oc) / 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4@3200MHz / Nvidia GTX 660 / ASUS x370-A mobo/ 500GB WD Blue system drive / Crucial BX100 250GB SSD media / spinners for library/backup ::::: iZotope RX / Phoenixverb Surround / DaVinci Resolve / Faderport / Applied Acoustics UltraAnalog / my pet pony Frank

DG
Member
Posts: 704
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 8:08 pm
Contact:

Re: VCA's and Groups and Links

Post by DG » Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:07 am

psvennevig wrote:
davidgamson wrote:Big question for me on linked parameters...do we finally get parameters linked in the arrange page as well as the mix page? The way it works in PT for instance....Can we insert automation on the arrange page via mouse and keyboard and have the same automation reflected in the linked track? At the moment ..the only way to insert the same data on to multiple linked channels is to move the faders. personally...i rarely use the mix page. Anyone know if this has been addressed?
No, this hasn't been addressed.
That's a shame. It's one of the (very) few reasons that Pro Tools is still my DAW of choice for mixing.

DG
Nuendo 6.07
Intel Xeon 3.0GHz 10 Core 20 Threads
32GB RAM
Windows 7 (x64)Pro
RME Multiface II
Intensity
nVidia GT 640 graphics card

davidgamson
Junior Member
Posts: 65
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 9:06 pm
Contact:

Re: VCA's and Groups and Links

Post by davidgamson » Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:31 am

It is a shame! This is one thing that still seems really "semi pro"!

Post Reply

Return to “General”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests