Wavelab-8 User Manual?

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Wavelab-8 User Manual?

Post by fenderchris » Wed Jan 02, 2013 6:11 pm

@Philippe:

Is Wavelab-8 going to come with a proper in-depth user manual like W6?

I did not go for W7 due to the lack of a full manual, but if W8 has one I will probably climb back on board.
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Re: Wavelab-8 User Manual?

Post by Vocalpoint » Wed Jan 02, 2013 7:57 pm

fenderchris wrote:@Philippe:

Is Wavelab-8 going to come with a proper in-depth user manual like W6?

I did not go for W7 due to the lack of a full manual, but if W8 has one I will probably climb back on board.
Considering the extreme heat and outrage around this for v7 - if they do not provide a real manual for v8 - it will simply confirm that major (critical?) things fall on deaf ears - and how it then becomes pointless to continue with this application.

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Re: Wavelab-8 User Manual?

Post by emasters » Wed Jan 02, 2013 10:42 pm

I certainly hope a manual is provided with v8. The lack of a manual in v7 was a surprise and disappointment.
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Re: Wavelab-8 User Manual?

Post by Arjan P » Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:18 am

emasters wrote:The lack of a manual in v7 was a surprise and disappointment.
+1 or, I'd say Complete Failure. But I'm quite hopeful the message came across..
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Re: Wavelab-8 User Manual?

Post by Transistor » Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:20 pm

If they reintroduce the manual as a "new feature", I promise to just smile and not be sarcastic. Really.

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Re: Wavelab-8 User Manual?

Post by Rolan de Fleur » Thu Jan 03, 2013 6:11 pm

Wow, it is *so comforting* to know I'm not the only one upset about the [expletive deleted] documentation of WL7.

So, I would add - When will the WL 7 User Manual be provided to all the current registered users?

Or do we just get a free upgrade to WL 8 if it has a manual?

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Re: Wavelab-8 User Manual?

Post by fenderchris » Sun Jan 06, 2013 6:33 pm

The fact that PG has not responded to the question in the first post in this Topic although he is responding to more recent posts in other Topics probably means bad news on the W8 User Manual front.
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Re: Wavelab-8 User Manual?

Post by Vocalpoint » Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:04 pm

fenderchris wrote:The fact that PG has not responded to the question in the first post in this Topic although he is responding to more recent posts in other Topics probably means bad news on the W8 User Manual front.
I was thinking exactly the same thing. The optics on this are not good at all.

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Re: Wavelab-8 User Manual?

Post by etl17 » Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:28 pm

Well too bad!
If there is ONE thing that the overwhelming majority of WaveLab users have asked for is a proper manual.
Personally I don't care if it's in print or not, but it has to be a REAL manual (not the fiasco PDF that got released with WL7).

I will be amazed if Steinberg hasn't payed any attention to all the noise that we have generated regarding this.
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Re: Wavelab-8 User Manual?

Post by Vocalpoint » Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:41 pm

etl17 wrote:I will be amazed if Steinberg hasn't payed any attention to all the noise that we have generated regarding this.
Well - you would think it would be fair for PG to drop by with a one liner saying a "real" manual is in fact on deck. It would have to be well along it's way by now.

If that simple thing does not happen - then - prepared to be amazed...I suppose.

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Re: Wavelab-8 User Manual?

Post by Arjan P » Sun Jan 06, 2013 8:36 pm

fenderchris wrote:The fact that PG has not responded to the question in the first post in this Topic although he is responding to more recent posts in other Topics probably means bad news on the W8 User Manual front.
That conclusion is very premature - PG only responds to issues people may have and that aren't answered by other forum members. He's always been secretive about new features or release dates, so it still can go either way. I believe there will be a much better manual with WL8 - but then, I'm an optimist 8-)
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Re: Wavelab-8 User Manual?

Post by fenderchris » Sun Jan 06, 2013 8:50 pm

Arjan P wrote:
fenderchris wrote:The fact that PG has not responded to the question in the first post in this Topic although he is responding to more recent posts in other Topics probably means bad news on the W8 User Manual front.
That conclusion is very premature - PG only responds to issues people may have and that aren't answered by other forum members. He's always been secretive about new features or release dates, so it still can go either way. I believe there will be a much better manual with WL8 - but then, I'm an optimist 8-)
I hope I'm wrong.
Chris

The Archers - give it a rest already!

OS: Windows-10 Pro 64-bit v.1903.
PC: i7 Quad core 2.66GHz, 24GB ram, SSD drives.
Screens: LG 4K 3440x1440, AG-Neovo 1280x1024 (x2).
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Re: Wavelab-8 User Manual?

Post by C.LYDE » Sun Jan 06, 2013 9:19 pm

I'm still surprised at the verocity associated with this topic. I for one have no interest in a printed manual, provided the PDF version and contextual help contains sufficient details.

I find it ludicrous that professional people are so taken by this, each to his opinion.and work method I suppose.. ..jeepers.. I haven't looked at a Cubase manual, now that I think about it since SX..? blimey even forgotten which version.. :?

In fact why not rather a IOS and Android app instead, containing relevant info, tipps and especially update and corrections would be instantaneous via the appropiate store.
That way if one wants to study on the train/plane/toilet... all you need is your phone/tablet.. :idea:
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Re: Wavelab-8 User Manual?

Post by fenderchris » Sun Jan 06, 2013 9:32 pm

C.LYDE wrote:I'm still surprised at the verocity associated with this topic. I for one have no interest in a printed manual, provided the PDF version and contextual help contains sufficient details.

I find it ludicrous that professional people are so taken by this, each to his opinion.and work method I suppose.. ..jeepers.. I haven't looked at a Cubase manual, now that I think about it since SX3..
I don't think anyone is saying that a 'printed' manual is essential - a pdf is fine, but it has to be comprehensive.
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OS: Windows-10 Pro 64-bit v.1903.
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Screens: LG 4K 3440x1440, AG-Neovo 1280x1024 (x2).
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Re: Wavelab-8 User Manual?

Post by PG » Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:06 am

The WaveLab 8 manual will be fully renewed, and checked by me too.
Philippe

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Re: Wavelab-8 User Manual?

Post by fenderchris » Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:31 am

PG wrote:The WaveLab 8 manual will be fully renewed, and checked by me too.
Philippe, that is fantastic news! - Thank you.
Chris

The Archers - give it a rest already!

OS: Windows-10 Pro 64-bit v.1903.
PC: i7 Quad core 2.66GHz, 24GB ram, SSD drives.
Screens: LG 4K 3440x1440, AG-Neovo 1280x1024 (x2).
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Software: Nuendo-8.1.10, Nuendo-10.2.10, Wavelab-Elements-9.5, Halion-6, Halion Sonic 3, Kontakt-5, Cubase iCPro for iPhone and Android (killed by its parents at birth), Omnisphere, Trillian.

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Re: Wavelab-8 User Manual?

Post by Transistor » Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:57 pm

PG wrote:The WaveLab 8 manual will be fully renewed, and checked by me too.
Fantastic, indeed. :D Bedtime reading material secured.

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Re: Wavelab-8 User Manual?

Post by Rolan de Fleur » Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:26 pm

C.LYDE brings up a few interesting views on this subject. In my experience users/people are different, some *always* ignore the manual and prefer to either 'figure it out' or ask someone close by for help rather than open the manual. I remember a PC at work that had a full set of documentation for the application running on it, and every time someone would be using it, they would ask the experienced users in the area (disturbing them from their work) rather than seek an answer in the book.

Others will not do anything until they read the manual, being afraid of errors if left on their own.

I think the modern analogy is one group jumps first and figures out how they should land on the way down, the other group plans an exit strategy before they even consider jumping...

Not everyone using this software is 'a professional', to the delight of the producers of this program, there are many hobbyists that also use WL for their audio production needs. I realize there is an assumption that knowledge of the mastering process exists before the application is used, but in practice I think you have about 20-30% for which the process is new and there is an eagerness to learn to do things the *right way* given the proper tools.

I purchased WL7 in September of 2012, I was a previous WL5 user and found the manual very helpful, as I work on audio in spurts ... 3 months of a project then nothing for a year. I don't care what it is that you do, if you don't do it often, especially if it is a complicated process, you *will* forget some part of the process - especially if they keep moving/changing the interface.

I was extremely disappointed in the quality of the documentation. Not only is it sparse, but it makes claims it cannot fulfill (states that the little info arrow can be used in parts of the interface that it cannot [pop-up modal windows]), or the lack of useful tutorials to teach the process rather than just the function of the feature. To me WL7 is incomplete, and the current publication is a defect that should be fixed like any other bug. I for one would like to see a real set of documentation appear as a WL7 point upgrade. Why should I be forced to pay for something I should have received to begin with? And I say that as someone with a limited income.

I imagine this subject has been discussed at length elsewhere in these forums. But since some have the reaction that accurate and through documentation is not needed, I thought I'd defend the rest of us non-professionals that would sure love to read how to do something instead of coming to the forums repeatedly to find out. Other, competitive products have may 'demos' on YouTube these days. I feel like I purchased something from Adobe, where the how-to is delivered as a series of classes each costing about 1/2 of the price of the application. It just should be easier (And yes, I have been reading Everest's Handbook and Bob Katz's fine tome on Mastering).

Good technical writers are difficult to find, and many products get rushed to market without the care in documentation preparation included. It is a business after all, and costs are offset by revenue, not by free training.

Remaining hopeful.

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Re: Wavelab-8 User Manual?

Post by fenderchris » Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:58 pm

Rolan de Fleur wrote:To me WL7 is incomplete, and the current publication is a defect that should be fixed like any other bug. I for one would like to see a real set of documentation appear as a WL7 point upgrade. Why should I be forced to pay for something I should have received to begin with?
That is a very good way of looking at it.

I don't see that happening now with W8 on the horizon, but perhaps the upgrade path from W7 to W8 should be made very cheap,if not free, for users who did buy W7 (of which I am not one).
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The Archers - give it a rest already!

OS: Windows-10 Pro 64-bit v.1903.
PC: i7 Quad core 2.66GHz, 24GB ram, SSD drives.
Screens: LG 4K 3440x1440, AG-Neovo 1280x1024 (x2).
Hardware: RME FireFace UFX, MR816CSX (x2), SmartAV Tango-1 + 12-fader expansion, MOTU Midi Express 128, UAD-2 Quad, Lexicon PCM-91, Lexicon MPX-550, TC-Fireworx, Roland V-Drums TD-20X, Nektar Panorama P1.
Software: Nuendo-8.1.10, Nuendo-10.2.10, Wavelab-Elements-9.5, Halion-6, Halion Sonic 3, Kontakt-5, Cubase iCPro for iPhone and Android (killed by its parents at birth), Omnisphere, Trillian.

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Re: Wavelab-8 User Manual?

Post by Vocalpoint » Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:58 pm

PG wrote:The WaveLab 8 manual will be fully renewed, and checked by me too.
Awesome! Now that's some happy new year news!

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Re: Wavelab-8 User Manual?

Post by Vocalpoint » Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:12 pm

C.LYDE wrote: I find it ludicrous that professional people are so taken by this, each to his opinion.and work method I suppose.. ..jeepers.. I haven't looked at a Cubase manual, now that I think about it since SX..? blimey even forgotten which version.. :?
Again - each to their own. You obviously understood everything about WL7 at first launch...lucky you.

But I use WL7 daily and despite not needing the manual every day - there were times that the "shock" of WL7 (and getting around in it in the early stages) were a complete PITA without proper, VERY detailed documentation.

Even today - some 2+ years after WL7 - I still do not know how to do many things and in the spirit of being able to work - I just stick with the two workspaces that I know how to use and I never modify anything. Clicking on anything else - simply takes me to a place that I do not want to be.

So a full manual for V8 will be a huge help - to me anyway.

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Re: Wavelab-8 User Manual?

Post by Vocalpoint » Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:16 pm

fenderchris wrote:Perhaps the upgrade path from W7 to W8 should be made very cheap,if not free, for users who did buy W7 (of which I am not one).
+100. WL7 has been such a pain at times that a low priced (or free) upgrade is exactly the kind of good faith gesture that would go a long way to making the past two years feel a tad better.

Personally - WL7 still feels like a bizarre, unfinished experiment that needed another few months of dev time to polish. Hopefully WL8 sets this right.

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Re: Wavelab-8 User Manual?

Post by Arjan P » Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:01 pm

PG wrote:The WaveLab 8 manual will be fully renewed, and checked by me too.
Great news! Thanks for letting us know.
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Re: Wavelab-8 User Manual?

Post by etl17 » Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:18 am

PG wrote:The WaveLab 8 manual will be fully renewed, and checked by me too.
Thank you!
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Re: Wavelab-8 User Manual?

Post by Oliver.Lucas » Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:01 pm

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