Proper Post EQ

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Domilik
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Proper Post EQ

Post by Domilik » Wed May 01, 2013 8:34 am

I once again wonder, when we finally get a proper postpro-eq in Nuendo.
This 4-band-thing is just not suitable at all, and EQing is next to Volume the parameter I use by far most in post automation.

OK, we now got this seperate HiCut/LowCut, but it's
a) on a different position in signal chain, and not visible in EQ-curve, and not controllable by common remote devices, which makes filtering workflow quite uncomfortable, and
b) it has a slope which can not be changed?!

This (b) in my opinion is a desaster, since I use different slopes from signal to signal, different slopes for location sound, and atmospheres, for music and so on. I really can not image why this was implemented in that way. Somebody in product development must have had the opinion that one slope fits for all?
For me this is not a professional tool at all which does not fit into an upper class Nuendo.

I think this overall mentioned "complete rewrite" would have been the chance to finally give us a proper post channel EQ, and not still sticking to that old music cubase-thing and simply adding a new plugin with a strictly defined HC/LC...
This can be done better with most third party plugs...

So, once again, my appeal for giving us a good (probably 7 band?) EQ.

Btw: This Voxengo Curve-EQ is great for some filter tasks! But of course it does not fit as a standard channel eq.
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Big K
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Re: Proper Post EQ

Post by Big K » Wed May 01, 2013 11:28 am

I recall times when we made absolute HiEnd sound on 3-band, semi-parametric EQs on analog desks w/o automation...
Asking for 7 or more EQ bands is absolutely legitimate, but what got lost in the art of recording that such surgical tools are needed, at all? I mean, for accidents or fixes we have better tools...
I am not a purist nor am I living in the past, but I probably need to hear/compare something that was done with "only" 4 bands and the ( presumably better) 7 band EQ.
Just m2c ... no offence...
Again... demanding a larger multiband EQ is absolutely ok ...


?Big K ?
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Re: Proper Post EQ

Post by MattiasNYC » Wed May 01, 2013 4:17 pm

...
Last edited by MattiasNYC on Mon Oct 28, 2013 8:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Proper Post EQ

Post by psvennevig » Tue May 07, 2013 12:20 pm

I do agree. The new channel EQ should've got the LC/HC properly built in, and pref. 2 bands more. And of course the LC/HC should be visible in the curve. Let's hope they can improve that.

I think they had to maintain some form om compatibility with the old channel eq, that's why all our wishes weren't met.

I can very highly recommend the new DMG audio eq.
It is the best I've ever used, and suits post production like a custom made glove!
http://dmgaudio.com/products_equilibrium.php

I'd also note, as Lydiot said, adding a studio EQ or using the postfilter, which is quite good at much typical post processing, does give us the toolset we need with basic N6 plugs.

Pål
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Re: Proper Post EQ

Post by Domilik » Fri May 31, 2013 6:12 pm

I'm just coming back from a cinema documentary mix on Pt and D-control.
Used their 7band-EQ all the time with most of it's bands.
Was happy to have ongoing access to the EQ on a dedicated area on the Icon.

Can not do anything of that with Nuendo. Can not remote control the Hi/LowCut, does not see the Hi/Lowcut on the EQ-Curve. Can not control the slope of Hi/LowCut(!!!*). That's far behind.

*still something I just can not believe, why steinberg determines how strong our cutting has to work, and why everybody seems to be fine with that... On the other hand I can user-define the colour of a fader-knob... ;)
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Re: Proper Post EQ

Post by stingray » Fri May 31, 2013 8:20 pm

Domilik wrote:Can not control the slope of Hi/LowCut(!!!*). That's far behind.
Agree, it would have been helpful to have a Q control or different slopes for the low/high cut filters, and of course full integration into the EQ and curve display would have greatly improved the interface.

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Re: Proper Post EQ

Post by Oliver.Lucas » Fri May 31, 2013 9:19 pm

Curve EQ still does not work on my system with the latest update....getting frustrated about this.... :cry:
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Re: Proper Post EQ

Post by Chewy Papadopoulos » Sun Jun 02, 2013 7:16 am

Oliver.Lucas wrote:Curve EQ still does not work on my system with the latest update....getting frustrated about this.... :cry:
Is it not working at all for you? I just figured it out... and it's working (and really cool!)

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Re: Proper Post EQ

Post by Oliver.Lucas » Mon Jun 03, 2013 9:12 am

Chewy Papadopoulos wrote:
Oliver.Lucas wrote:Curve EQ still does not work on my system with the latest update....getting frustrated about this.... :cry:
Is it not working at all for you? I just figured it out... and it's working (and really cool!)

Chewy
Aleksey has found the bug. It seems to be related to a Voxengo global setting in the VST 2.4 versions of the plugs. I unchecked the built in VST refresh and now it works just as intended.

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Re: Proper Post EQ

Post by Domilik » Tue Oct 15, 2013 7:36 am

I still belive, that as long as Nuendo just offers us a 4-band channel EQ for postproduction (which means filtering suboptimal location sound all the time), this tool is just not suitable for a professional mix.

So it is time for a small but emphatic bump.
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Re: Proper Post EQ

Post by psvennevig » Tue Oct 15, 2013 8:56 am

Domilik wrote:I still belive, that as long as Nuendo just offers us a 4-band channel EQ for postproduction (which means filtering suboptimal location sound all the time), this tool is just not suitable for a professional mix.

So it is time for a small but emphatic bump.
How about the combination channel EQ and the Postfilter? I really like the postfilter.

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Re: Proper Post EQ

Post by Domilik » Tue Oct 15, 2013 10:00 am

psvennevig wrote: How about the combination channel EQ and the Postfilter? I really like the postfilter.
Pål
For me the idea of the channel EQ is a Tool, which is placed in every channel without using additional plugins in other positions in chain, and with a permanent visual feedback in Mixer and channel overview.

A combination of multiple plugins is not really an option for me (although I like postfilter for offline-processing), not knowing in which plugin I automated what. I want to filter in one single overview, otherwise I propably would get lost in a big project mixing.

And of course there are post-pro filters on the market, so no need to use multiple Nuendo-EQs.
I have to use a third party plugin, which offers me more bands (including cuts/shelves), like OxfordEQ or Fabfilter. And the Channel-EQ is still left out ever since I use Nuendo.
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Re: Proper Post EQ

Post by Domilik » Tue Oct 15, 2013 10:06 am

And having a look to competition:
Harrison Consoles offers 8 bands.
Neve DMC: 8 bands
Pro Tools: 7 bands
Semipros like Samplitude: 6 bands
Logic: 8 bands

and on the bottom:
Cubase: 4 bands
Nuendo: 4 bands (although I pay extra for a post-production-tool, compared to cubase)
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Re: Proper Post EQ

Post by jul75 » Tue Oct 15, 2013 12:47 pm

I don't understand what they've tried to do with those eq.....playskool? Toys"R" Us?

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Re: Proper Post EQ

Post by MattiasNYC » Tue Oct 15, 2013 3:58 pm

...
Last edited by MattiasNYC on Mon Oct 28, 2013 8:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Proper Post EQ

Post by Domilik » Tue Oct 15, 2013 4:24 pm

Lydiot wrote:Well, Nuendo has 6 bands available, it's just that they split the cut-bands from the parametric/shelves and put them at the top of the chain. But yeah, I hear you.
Hey, you mean that extra cut-plugin with simply no visual feedback in eq and with a fixed(!!) and unswitchable(!!) Q slope?

I think we agree, that this could not be more than a joke by steinberg, a fixed Q is sth. which I propably could live with in a musicmaker smartphone app, but not in a DAW which is used by pros in a pro business.

I have to hicut an atmosphere in a complete another way than ADR or music! And since I do not have a visual feedback in eq-graph, why - again - shouldn't I then use a proper third party tool?

I have never seen a fixed slope on any EQ out there, not even on freeware ones. And not in 200$-Logic.
And this (seriously) was promoted in N6 as two more bands...
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Re: Proper Post EQ

Post by ErikG » Tue Oct 15, 2013 6:35 pm

psvennevig wrote:I do agree. The new channel EQ should've got the LC/HC properly built in, and pref. 2 bands more. And of course the LC/HC should be visible in the curve. Let's hope they can improve that.

I think they had to maintain some form om compatibility with the old channel eq, that's why all our wishes weren't met.

I can very highly recommend the new DMG audio eq.
It is the best I've ever used, and suits post production like a custom made glove!
http://dmgaudio.com/products_equilibrium.php

I'd also note, as Lydiot said, adding a studio EQ or using the postfilter, which is quite good at much typical post processing, does give us the toolset we need with basic N6 plugs.

Pål
Well my Norwegian friend :)
As the eq isn't compatible between N5.5 and N6 I very much doubt they had any reason not to change the eq layout between the versions.
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Re: Proper Post EQ

Post by Rickard » Tue Oct 15, 2013 7:00 pm

I regularly use the Nuendo eq and find it far more useful than the oOford which limits the range of each band. I can get further with 4 unlimited bands than 5 limited ones. Also I find Nuendo's eq to be better sounding. Oxford's eq whistles a little more if that description makes sense.

I also regularly use the postfilter in conjunction. It is a powerful combination for me and does the bulk of the heavy lifting. Studio Eq can help if I really need more bands- other eq's for sweetening.

More bands on the channel eq? Why not. It would come in handy.

What would really be great is postfilter with more bands or (same thing) studio eq with postfilter's slopes. That would kick a**.

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Re: Proper Post EQ

Post by MattiasNYC » Tue Oct 15, 2013 7:35 pm

...
Last edited by MattiasNYC on Mon Oct 28, 2013 8:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Proper Post EQ

Post by Domilik » Wed Oct 16, 2013 11:35 am

Rickard wrote:I regularly use the Nuendo eq and find it far more useful than the oOford which limits the range of each band. I can get further with 4 unlimited bands than 5 limited ones. Also I find Nuendo's eq to be better sounding. Oxford's eq whistles a little more if that description makes sense.
I use the Oxford as my standard EQ in Nuendo since several years now, and never ran into problems concerning the band-limits. If I would need 4 bands higher than for example 6kHz I guess it's not shaping the sound in the mix, but having soundproblems which I propably would delete offline via restoration-tools or postfilter.
The thing I like with the limited bands: It makes my EQ-midi-controller (perfect for this: BCR2000, I have mapped the Oxford permanently to this one) a precise controller, since each band is split in to 128midi-values. Midi-Controlling the complete bandwidth with just 128steps is crap. But, OK, I admit: Midi-Controlling is of course a bit "yesterday".
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Re: Proper Post EQ

Post by Domilik » Wed Oct 16, 2013 11:41 am

Rickard wrote:I also regularly use the postfilter in conjunction. It is a powerful combination for me and does the bulk of the heavy lifting. Studio Eq can help if I really need more bands- other eq's for sweetening.
Once again, this means, that you have to use another EQ as an insert-plug, isn't it? My point is, that if I have to use an additional insert-toy I can directly choose a proper one, from a third party company, which gives me all the options I would like to have in a single post-EQ (and all the options I get in all the other DAWs I know).

But: I really like the idea of having a channel EQ, which is not an insert-plugin, and which gives me full visual feedback in mixer, and in channel overview. That's a great idea, imo, very much console-like, but just not usable at the moment, since - like you said - you have to EQ on several locations in chain due to the limited actual channel EQ.
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Re: Proper Post EQ

Post by psvennevig » Wed Oct 16, 2013 11:43 am

Domilik wrote:
Rickard wrote:I also regularly use the postfilter in conjunction. It is a powerful combination for me and does the bulk of the heavy lifting. Studio Eq can help if I really need more bands- other eq's for sweetening.
Once again, this means, that you have to use another EQ as an insert-plug, isn't it? My point is, that if I have to use another insert-toy I can directly choose a proper one, from a third party company, which gives me all the options I would like to have in a single post-EQ (and all the options I get in all the other DAWs I know).

But: I really like the idea of having a channel EQ, which is not an insert-plugin, and which gives me full visual feedback in mixer, and in channel overview. That's a great idea, imo, very much console-like, but just not usable at the moment, since - like you said - you have to EQ on several locations in chain due to the limited actual channel EQ.
I agree. And if the channel eq included proper LF/HF filters, it would be sweet right?

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Re: Proper Post EQ

Post by Domilik » Wed Oct 16, 2013 11:50 am

psvennevig wrote:I agree. And if the channel eq included proper LF/HF filters, it would be sweet right?
Pål
Yeah!

basically... but...OK, I would prefer at least a 5-band + LF/HF.
With 7 bands all incl I can set the frequency-values to the most common ones for male/femal resonance, room-modes, presences, nosysounds, etc, by default, and begin to tune from this standard-setting.
That's great in Oxford or Pro Tools, or all the other EQs.
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Re: Proper Post EQ

Post by MattiasNYC » Wed Oct 16, 2013 3:48 pm

...
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Re: Proper Post EQ

Post by Rickard » Thu Oct 17, 2013 3:27 pm

So I will revise my wish list (I'm always afraid to ask for too much) in support of you Domilik!

Channel eq with 6 bands plus hi/low pass filters with adjustable Qs and feed back in the channel eq display for those filters, like the postfilter filters.

Can we also get 3 bands on the postfilter? It would be even better to incorporate the postfilter into the channel eq. That would be a great option on each band.

How about it Steinberg?

Dean
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