Very sadly I will never purchase Dorico

Discussions about our next-generation scoring application, Dorico.
vintagevibe
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Very sadly I will never purchase Dorico

Post by vintagevibe » Wed May 18, 2016 3:41 pm

I've been watching for years with great excitement and the program looks awesome and what I actually want in a notation program. The draconian licensing system is a total deal breaker. I was exited to find that it was using a software licensing system but horrified to find out that it ONLY LETS ME USE IT ON ONE COMPUTER! I need to have it on my desktop and laptop THE WAY SIBELIUS LETS ME. I WILL NOT US A DONGLE. It would be broken or lost the first week.

I'M VERY DISAPPOINTED AND SAD. STEINBERG NEEDS TO JOIN THE 21st CENTURY AND LET US USE THE PRODUCTS THE WAY OUR WORK DICTATES. :cry:
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Re: Very sadly I will never purchase Dorico

Post by Cor anglais 16 » Wed May 18, 2016 3:48 pm

Also a difficult thing for me to get through—as I work in church music, I have to have my scorewriter at the church as well as at home. This actually kept me from upgrading to Sibelius 7.5 from Sibelius 7.1, as the file format changed and the files wouldn't have been compatible with each other between home and work (and other employees). Hopefully Steinberg can figure out how to enable multiple-installation licensing, as I'm sure the vast majority of those who work in our field will require such a capability.

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Re: Very sadly I will never purchase Dorico

Post by vintagevibe » Wed May 18, 2016 3:57 pm

Yes, Cor anglais 16, I'm a music teacher. I need to work at school and at home on the same files.
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Re: Very sadly I will never purchase Dorico

Post by jonsenge » Wed May 18, 2016 3:59 pm

I agree and disagree. It's less generous than the other two apps, however, I was pleasantly surprised at the extremely competitive pricing. I think a concession to that price may've been the number of systems on which it can be installed. I was expecting Dorico to retail between $500-$999 for the market they're after, so I don't see it as a deal breaker for me.

Just my two cents.

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Re: Very sadly I will never purchase Dorico

Post by jonsenge » Wed May 18, 2016 4:05 pm

I agree and disagree. While this is certainly less generous than the other two apps, but I was also expecting Dorico to retail for a much higher price for what it's offering. This number of installs seems like a reasonable concession to get the price as low as it is.

Just my two cents.

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Re: Very sadly I will never purchase Dorico

Post by Michael Haslam » Wed May 18, 2016 4:10 pm

Rather than have to carry hymnbooks between home and church I have copies at home and at church. I don’t blame the publishers for this situation. I have had Sibelius installed on my laptop for 7 years. I carry the laptop around with me so I don’t need two licences. If I wanted to use Sibelius (or Dorico) on a church computer I’d get the church to buy a licence. Given the power of the software I consider it very cheap. €600 would pay for about 15 hours of a professional copyist’s time.

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Dongle has no future!

Post by cheveyo » Wed May 18, 2016 4:11 pm

For me the line is not so clear but I agree:

Nowadays, the normal use is to have the software on 2 computers. A Dongle would in fact be broken/lost very quickly.
Software with iLok I'll never buy...
An USB Licencer I use for Cubase and therefore I use some VSTs with that Dongle (but I'm not satisfied with this).

But it's a road without future!

Me and more and more users switch to Software like Presonus Studio One that manage to sell without Dongle...
People who can purchase this Software WILL purchase this software. People who are not able to purchase this Software might get them somewhere else but will not destroy the company.
As a result perhaps they have to struggle with viruses and trojans and crashes but (on the positive side) they spread the name of the product...

Time to think about building a new software licensing system for Steinberg... Otherwise a good product is crippled and destroyed by marketing!
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Re: Very sadly I will never purchase Dorico

Post by DG » Wed May 18, 2016 4:13 pm

vintagevibe wrote:Yes, Cor anglais 16, I'm a music teacher. I need to work at school and at home on the same files.
Won't the school be providing the licence at work though? So you could use yours at home.

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Re: Very sadly I will never purchase Dorico

Post by steve4cello » Wed May 18, 2016 4:16 pm

Perhaps if enough of us ask nicely, Steinberg will reconsider the licensing option. Surely it's not too late to do that in time for the product launch?

I find it helpful to have Sibelius on desktop and notebook as I can take the notebook to rehearsals and make instant corrections, and on other occasions have done a fair amount of work, both composing and arranging, while on long train journeys or when I've had to be staying away from home. It would reduce productivity considerably if I couldn't do that with Dorico and would mean sticking with Sibelius despite all the other advantages of Dorico.

So perhaps others who would like this feature could keep adding to this thread so we can see how high the demand will be?
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Re: Very sadly I will never purchase Dorico

Post by wcreed » Wed May 18, 2016 4:35 pm

> STEINBERG NEEDS TO JOIN THE 21st CENTURY

Maybe YOU should join the 21st century. Dongle protected software doesn't get pirated. Non-protected software DOES get pirated.
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Daniel at Steinberg
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Re: Very sadly I will never purchase Dorico

Post by Daniel at Steinberg » Wed May 18, 2016 4:39 pm

As I've said in reply to a number of comments with similar sentiments on the blog over the last day or so, I hear you loud and clear on this point. We do not want our licensing technology to be an obstacle to buying Dorico. We are not going to be in a position to release Dorico without some kind of licensing system in place, and we are also for practical reasons limited to the options that our eLicenser technology provides. Please let me revisit this issue with my colleagues, and I will come back to you with further information.

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Re: Very sadly I will never purchase Dorico

Post by vintagevibe » Wed May 18, 2016 4:40 pm

wcreed wrote:> STEINBERG NEEDS TO JOIN THE 21st CENTURY

Maybe YOU should join the 21st century. Dongle protected software doesn't get pirated. Non-protected software DOES get pirated.

The trend is away from dongles. And yes, dongles get cracked too. So you think that non-dongled software is unprotected? I don't think you understand this subject very well.
Last edited by vintagevibe on Wed May 18, 2016 4:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Very sadly I will never purchase Dorico

Post by vintagevibe » Wed May 18, 2016 4:46 pm

Daniel at Steinberg wrote:As I've said in reply to a number of comments with similar sentiments on the blog over the last day or so, I hear you loud and clear on this point. We do not want our licensing technology to be an obstacle to buying Dorico. We are not going to be in a position to release Dorico without some kind of licensing system in place, and we are also for practical reasons limited to the options that our eLicenser technology provides. Please let me revisit this issue with my colleagues, and I will come back to you with further information.
Thank you for your response Daniel. I was truly heartbroken when I learned of the licensing limitation. I have followed you since the early Sibelius days and I have enormous respect for you. This post gives me hope and I will follow this issue with great interest. Thank you for all you do and have done!
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Re: Very sadly I will never purchase Dorico

Post by vintagevibe » Wed May 18, 2016 4:51 pm

DG wrote:
vintagevibe wrote:Yes, Cor anglais 16, I'm a music teacher. I need to work at school and at home on the same files.
Won't the school be providing the licence at work though? So you could use yours at home.

DG

No, sadly, they don't but that is still not a good solution since I also use it for private lessons. Also whenever I have a little time I can work wherever I am if it is on my laptop.
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Re: Very sadly I will never purchase Dorico

Post by vintagevibe » Wed May 18, 2016 4:58 pm

Michael Haslam wrote:Rather than have to carry hymnbooks between home and church I have copies at home and at church. I don’t blame the publishers for this situation. I have had Sibelius installed on my laptop for 7 years. I carry the laptop around with me so I don’t need two licences. If I wanted to use Sibelius (or Dorico) on a church computer I’d get the church to buy a licence. Given the power of the software I consider it very cheap. €600 would pay for about 15 hours of a professional copyist’s time.
Your hymn book analogy does not work for software. The price is comparable with the industry and is not relevant to this subject. Doing what you do will not work for me since I also need to run large projects that would not run on my laptop - only on my far more powerful desktop.
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Re: Very sadly I will never purchase Dorico

Post by Centralmusic » Wed May 18, 2016 6:33 pm

vintagevibe wrote:I'm a music teacher.
I need to work at school and at home on the same files.
a music teacher?

here´s a solution: you can buy the EDU Version = half price = 2x Dorico!

:)

Pricing & availability


€349* – Educational pricing for qualifying teachers and students :idea:

€299* – Special time-limited crossgrade pricing for qualifying Sibelius and Finale users :idea:


.
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Re: Very sadly I will never purchase Dorico

Post by Peter Roos » Wed May 18, 2016 8:15 pm

Daniel at Steinberg wrote:As I've said in reply to a number of comments with similar sentiments on the blog over the last day or so, I hear you loud and clear on this point. We do not want our licensing technology to be an obstacle to buying Dorico. We are not going to be in a position to release Dorico without some kind of licensing system in place, and we are also for practical reasons limited to the options that our eLicenser technology provides. Please let me revisit this issue with my colleagues, and I will come back to you with further information.
Thanks Daniel - fwiw, if you need to convince the folks at Steinberg you could use several arguments: 1. Sibelius has two licenses and you want Dorico to be at least as attractive as Sibelius in every way (including the licensing terms) so as to tempt current Sibelius users with a crossgrade; and 2. In terms of continuity, computers can break down for whatever reason (hard drive failure, a virus, etc.), and if they do and you're in the middle of a project right before a deadline, you are dead in the water - unless you have a second machine and backup files.

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Re: Very sadly I will never purchase Dorico

Post by wcreed » Wed May 18, 2016 8:27 pm

I would think that providing 2 soft e activations would be a simple solution. VSL provides 3 activations for VE Pro and VI Pro
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Re: Very sadly I will never purchase Dorico

Post by FriFlo » Wed May 18, 2016 8:35 pm

I can honestly say, this will not be a deal breaker for me. I am rather interested to see more in terms of functionality to decide, wether this program will be able to replace Sibelius for me with v1 already.
However, I do support the OPs request, as for a notation program, using a second copy on a laptop is kind of essential. With Cubase, I don't mind it a lot, as this is a stationary PC in my studio and I am not too keen to using it on laptop (although I think many people will be ...). But with a laptop - even, if Steinberg would decide to give the customer two licenses - a USB dongle is a big PITA, so it does put me off in some way.
On the other hand: While USB dongles have been cracked, they are much more likely to stay safe - at least for a long time, while pretty much every software protection gets cracked in no time ... so I do understand Steinbergs reasoning. And if the lack of business loss due to piracy will somehow be followed by reasonable upgrade pricing ... AND NOT EVER A SWITCH TO SUBSCRIPTION MODE ;-) ... everything is ok with me.

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Re: Very sadly I will never purchase Dorico

Post by DG » Wed May 18, 2016 8:53 pm

One solution could be the possibility of buying a 2nd licence at a discount. That's the one real issue I have with all of Steinberg's pricing; there is no discount for 2nd licences. Hence me having to pay full price for all three of my Nuendo licences. :(

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Re: Very sadly I will never purchase Dorico

Post by FriFlo » Wed May 18, 2016 9:25 pm

Ok, one worry is eliminated! I read this from a Steinberg employee so it is save:
"It will be soft-eLicneser based. No dongle will be required."
Alright, if they would decide to offer to licenses per purchase or a small fee for a second license, there is nothing to complain about.

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Re: Very sadly I will never purchase Dorico

Post by DG » Wed May 18, 2016 9:30 pm

FriFlo wrote:Ok, one worry is eliminated! I read this from a Steinberg employee so it is save:
"It will be soft-eLicneser based. No dongle will be required."
Alright, if they would decide to offer to licenses per purchase or a small fee for a second license, there is nothing to complain about.
The only thing to watch is the soft licence is tied to one computer. If you want to move it you ave to go with the USB eLicenser.

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Re: Very sadly I will never purchase Dorico

Post by FriFlo » Wed May 18, 2016 11:03 pm

DG wrote:
FriFlo wrote:Ok, one worry is eliminated! I read this from a Steinberg employee so it is save:
"It will be soft-eLicneser based. No dongle will be required."
Alright, if they would decide to offer to licenses per purchase or a small fee for a second license, there is nothing to complain about.
The only thing to watch is the soft licence is tied to one computer. If you want to move it you ave to go with the USB eLicenser.

DG
That wouldn't be a problem to me, as long as I can move that license in between elicenser hard and software version back and forth as often as I want to. I have only used the hardware dongle, not the software version of licenser, so I am not sure, but I assume it should be possible.

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Re: Very sadly I will never purchase Dorico

Post by ShikiSuen » Wed May 18, 2016 11:08 pm

You guys may want to shift to this thread to talk about possible alternative solutions in lieu of current eLc and soft-eLc: viewtopic.php?f=246&t=97431
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Re: Very sadly I will never purchase Dorico

Post by vintagevibe » Thu May 19, 2016 1:32 am

FriFlo wrote: That wouldn't be a problem to me, as long as I can move that license in between elicenser hard and software version back and forth as often as I want to. I have only used the hardware dongle, not the software version of licenser, so I am not sure, but I assume it should be possible.

Daniel has stated the moving the software license is not a quick and east thing to do.
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