16 inserts per track

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Re: 16 inserts per track

Post by Raphie » Sat Apr 09, 2016 8:45 am

For all you comparision guys, regardless if more than 8 is needed, you can already A/B unlimited combinations in several ways i.e. Just copying the track, or save it as a track preset. Much more efficient too.
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Re: 16 inserts per track

Post by wetstreet » Wed Apr 13, 2016 1:01 pm

+ 16

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Re: 16 inserts per track

Post by Atanaz » Fri Apr 22, 2016 7:26 am

+1
The insert count is too damn low.

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Re: 16 inserts per track

Post by Raphie » Fri Apr 22, 2016 8:11 am

meta-redundant wrote:OMG YOU GUYS I CAN'T WORK WITHOUT 764,534 REVERBS BECAUSE I LIKE TO HAVE 23 DIGITAL VERBS, 7 SPRING REVERBS, A NONLINEAR BASQUE BATHTUB VERB, A KLINGON VERSION WITH PURPLE FLAMES AND THEN OMG A HYPERBOLIC CONVOLVING FFT VERB FOR THOSE SPECIAL "SEXY" MOMENTS AND THEN I NEED TO A/B BETWEEN THEM INSTANTLY!!111!!!

Does anyone actually mix or make music anymore? No idea what this thread is about.
Indeed, it's the "feel lucky" generation, no having a clue what they are doing, just stacking and swapping plugins and presets without end in mind until they hear something they like. If that's not bad enough on it's own, they also don't (they think they do, but trust me they DON'T) understand the full potential and flexibility of a DAW.

Learn intended workflow first, before asking "features" like this. :lol:
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Re: 16 inserts per track

Post by tepa » Sat Apr 23, 2016 3:19 am

Raphie wrote:
meta-redundant wrote:OMG YOU GUYS I CAN'T WORK WITHOUT 764,534 REVERBS BECAUSE I LIKE TO HAVE 23 DIGITAL VERBS, 7 SPRING REVERBS, A NONLINEAR BASQUE BATHTUB VERB, A KLINGON VERSION WITH PURPLE FLAMES AND THEN OMG A HYPERBOLIC CONVOLVING FFT VERB FOR THOSE SPECIAL "SEXY" MOMENTS AND THEN I NEED TO A/B BETWEEN THEM INSTANTLY!!111!!!

Does anyone actually mix or make music anymore? No idea what this thread is about.
Indeed, it's the "feel lucky" generation, no having a clue what they are doing, just stacking and swapping plugins and presets without end in mind until they hear something they like. If that's not bad enough on it's own, they also don't (they think they do, but trust me they DON'T) understand the full potential and flexibility of a DAW.

Learn intended workflow first, before asking "features" like this. :lol:
Again it's not only about mixing (reverb, delay, comp)..... Yes 6 pre-insert is enought for mixing we agreed.

I guess you both know better than some of well know professional sound designer to How Create Sound. An exemple like Diego Stocco who made some great tutorial with some chain that are far more than the 6 pre-insert we have at the moment, and he is not the only one professional who work with more than 6 insert !!!

I don't think that people asking more insert are just a luky random generation , but the technology give us new tools to explore sound. Tools such as Morphing sound, Granulator, Step FX (filter, volume, pan, etc...), Glitch, Pitcher, Stutter, Distortion, etc.... Probably you both don't use them because it's not your style and you don't need them.
But many areas like some music style, sound-to-video, video game, etc... really use those technics.

For "feel lucky" generation, no having a clue what they are doing" : Why not ? For mixing i agree, but for "sound design" sometime you don't have to know in advance what the beast is going to throw, but you have to know what you are going to do with those new sounds and what they will inspire you.
For sure better know the rules, but sometime "blind sound exploration" is really fun too ;)

As Diego Stocco says at the end of his tutorial "The limit is your imagination" .....
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Re: 16 inserts per track

Post by Raphie » Sat Apr 23, 2016 6:25 am

Diego Stocco, can "make music out of anything" (his own tagline) he doesn't need a daw and certainly not more than 6 inserts :mrgreen:
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Re: 16 inserts per track

Post by Svengali » Sat Apr 23, 2016 12:11 pm

at least +4!
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Re: 16 inserts per track

Post by Centralmusic » Sat Apr 23, 2016 1:03 pm

BTW:
Pro Tools has only 10 (!) Inserts...
(In Cubase we have 8 + Cannel Strip, HiLoCuts, Ch EQ etc. etc. ) ;)
Maybe 16 Inserts are great for the most audio situations.
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Re: 16 inserts per track

Post by tepa » Sat Apr 23, 2016 2:51 pm

Raphie wrote:Diego Stocco, can "make music out of anything" (his own tagline) he doesn't need a daw and certainly not more than 6 inserts :mrgreen:
Yes Diego is a monster :mrgreen: he can make music out of anything.

But you keep talking about mixing music process and you completly miss the point of the topic, many people here are talking about sound-design and AGAIN :D NOT ONLY MIXING MUSIC PROCESS ;)

Iam not going to give you the 10 box for the Diego tutorial "Rythmic Process" :D where he is using Ableton Live and showing the process with more than 6 insert. Go check it on internet if you refuse to beleive that professional Sound-Designer need a lot of insert FOR CREATING NEW SOUNDS.
What more do you want us to proove that this feature is not only for amateur that don't know what they are doing.
If Diego Stocco is not enought to proove you THE FACT with this tutorial then who else ? :D

It's a fact professional SOUND-DESIGNER use more than 6 insert for different kind of SOUND-DESIGN PROCESS. Richard Devine is also a crazy chainer insert effect.

And then those process can be use in so many different area like music in all genre, to movies....
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Re: 16 inserts per track

Post by Raphie » Sat Apr 23, 2016 4:52 pm

stacking 10 plugs in a row is not sound design, that's getting lucky, without a designated end in mind.
You can also just chain 2 channels, or indeed move to Ableton :) (good luck with that :) )
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Re: 16 inserts per track

Post by tepa » Sat Apr 23, 2016 5:30 pm

Raphie wrote:stacking 10 plugs in a row is not sound design, that's getting lucky, without a designated end in mind.
You can also just chain 2 channels, or indeed move to Ableton :) (good luck with that :) )
Calling Staking 10 plug what ever you want... what are we talking about ??? It's clear when people need to create sound, they have many way, it start with the recording sound in microphone and then the process with Hardware/Software effect to design the sound.
So when Diego is staking 10 plug to create new sound what are you calling it ? If it's not sound-design then what it is ? Tell me, i just cant beleive it :mrgreen: Common are you joking :mrgreen:
You keep saying stuff like "that's getting lucky, without a designated end in mind" ok ok :D but you didn't answer me about Diego, you definitly need to check it, before again and again turning arround the point.

"You can also just chain 2 channels" i already answer to that in the topic (for me it's preset management)
"indeed move to Ableton :)" Yes this is what iam doing in sync with Cubase with LoopBe30, but this is a feature Topic, i wish it in Cubase because it will make thing easier for many user and we love so much Cubase :mrgreen:
Last edited by tepa on Sat Apr 23, 2016 6:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 16 inserts per track

Post by mroekalea » Sat Apr 23, 2016 5:33 pm

Just think about latency problems for the audio engine when allowing that much inserts,
if mixing is then hindered then we all completely miss the point.

As for sound design, you're just being lazy.
It's normal to have sub stages where a partial desired state is reached,
from there on you have 8 inserts again, you need to bounce in between.

When back in the days there where only 4 track available didn't stop anyone to make hits :-)

Cubase is a composing and mixing tool mostly, yes you can do sound design, but sawing the feet a good chair because the only purpose is sound design is a bit to much if you ask me.
And you can still have 16 inserts by using buses.
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Re: 16 inserts per track

Post by tepa » Sun Apr 24, 2016 5:53 pm

mroekalea wrote:Just think about latency problems for the audio engine when allowing that much inserts,
if mixing is then hindered then we all completely miss the point.
Yes specially if you are on a recording process, using constrain delay compensation can help in some cases, it's working very well with in the box instruments, but shure a little triky for external sound. So when we are still in a recording process it's "dangerous" to have to much latency.
But when we are only in a mixing process, latency is not any more a problem, you can even change the buffer to get more latency to give that time power to the CPU.
mroekalea wrote:As for sound design, you're just being lazy.
It's normal to have sub stages where a partial desired state is reached,
from there on you have 8 inserts again, you need to bounce in between.
Yes it's true :D Sometime very lazy.
Don't forget that its 6 pre-fader insert and the last 2 insert are post-fader.
Yes there is sub stages but i don't make my sub stage with the number of insert, if i want more insert in Cubase i add a groupe track ;) I have few presets of 2 groupe track, and managing the 1 and 2 track presets need some attention and the most important is the back up in case i erase a part of the preset by mistake because i didn't selected correctly the 2 tracks when saving preset.


mroekalea wrote:When back in the days there where only 4 track available didn't stop anyone to make hits :-)
Yes it's true ;) You make the point, creativity is the most important thing.
But when electrornics came arround the 70es, the music took many different way, some people that was not able to play "real" instrument was able to start doing music with their drum machine and some musicians at those time complain it was not music, whithout the evolution some music wondn't been possible.

mroekalea wrote:Cubase is a composing and mixing tool mostly, yes you can do sound design, but sawing the feet a good chair because the only purpose is sound design is a bit to much if you ask me.
And you can still have 16 inserts by using buses.
As you saw in the post before :D sound-design is just a word it can mean different things, as some people not taking it seriously. ;)
Personaly (my 2cents ;)) i think and specialy over the new generation that tweaking sound is a part of the identity. One of the best way to bring something new is to test and explore the sound with the new tools we can get and the skills we learn during that process.
So sound-design is not anymore reserve to movie, there is not anymore frontiers.

For shure Cubase is a great composing DAW. Even with limited insert, it will still be my first choice ;)

Sorry for my very average english ;)
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Re: 16 inserts per track

Post by mroekalea » Sun Apr 24, 2016 9:31 pm

Well sometimes we hear new sounds/styles, and these come from somewhere.

I agree that for out of the box thinking some kind of sound design function should be possible/is needed.
So when designing the solution to use more buses is doable, right?

I also understand that creating sub stages is limiting the creativity....
There are vst plugins which loaded create more insert options, so if this plug has 8 insert options you can by loading 6 of these multipy the amount of vst insert to 46 plugins and 16 postfader.

Look for VSTBoard, MultiFXVST or Usine >>> https://www.kvraudio.com/product/usine-by-sensomusic
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Re: 16 inserts per track

Post by tepa » Mon Apr 25, 2016 3:17 pm

mroekalea wrote:Well sometimes we hear new sounds/styles, and these come from somewhere.

I agree that for out of the box thinking some kind of sound design function should be possible/is needed.
So when designing the solution to use more buses is doable, right?
Yes in fact there is no limit in the DAW but the process workflow/organisation/managment could be better.
mroekalea wrote:I also understand that creating sub stages is limiting the creativity....
There are vst plugins which loaded create more insert options, so if this plug has 8 insert options you can by loading 6 of these multipy the amount of vst insert to 46 plugins and 16 postfader.

Look for VSTBoard, MultiFXVST or Usine >>> https://www.kvraudio.com/product/usine-by-sensomusic
Usine looks interesting, thx ;)
Yes MultiFXVST is great because you can macro automation, one other feature i wish inside Cubase.
Some other plug like the Blue Cat's PatchWork, DDMF Metaplugin are good to.

But when using extra vst soft like them, it adds process that can involve stability issue in some cases. With heavy chain i prefer to add group directly in Cubase or use Ableton ;)
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Re: 16 inserts per track

Post by tepa » Mon Apr 25, 2016 3:58 pm

Oups i mingled MultiFXVST and NYRV Devices.
Agent from NYRV Devices is the one that you can do macro automation. http://www.nyrvsystems.com/
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Re: 16 inserts per track

Post by OlleyOllet » Mon Apr 25, 2016 7:47 pm

as someone who has fallen in love with cubase... i have switched from Ableton and I find this limitation mind-boggling.

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Re: 16 inserts per track

Post by InLightTone » Sat Apr 30, 2016 2:32 pm

Raphie wrote:
Does anyone actually mix or make music anymore? No idea what this thread is about.
Indeed, it's the "feel lucky" generation, no having a clue what they are doing, just stacking and swapping plugins and presets without end in mind until they hear something they like. If that's not bad enough on it's own, they also don't (they think they do, but trust me they DON'T) understand the full potential and flexibility of a DAW.

Learn intended workflow first, before asking "features" like this. :lol:[/quote]

Ha! Ya, and all it ends up doing is just becoming louder, so it's better right?!?

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Re: 16 inserts per track

Post by keyxmusic » Fri May 06, 2016 3:20 am

+1

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Re: 16 inserts per track

Post by Laserkraft » Sat May 21, 2016 2:39 pm

Discussion is becoming stupid.
I'm out.
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Re: 16 inserts per track

Post by beerbong » Sun May 22, 2016 1:29 am

+1 I really dislike the such parts as inserts and send in the mixer as well. More precisely I dislike the need to minimize/scroll.
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Re: 16 inserts per track

Post by VirusTI82 » Tue May 24, 2016 11:20 pm

Oh yes!!!
Damn right!!!

I want much more inserts too!!!
16 or more.

I always miss slots in master bus!!!

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Re: 16 inserts per track

Post by PeppaPig » Sat Jun 04, 2016 1:21 pm

I think there is a technical reason why Cubase has a limited number of inserts. I reckon each complete track gets a thread, if you were to add more inserts the liklihood of running an individual CPU core into the red increases. The stutters clicks and CPU overloads Cubase owners know and "love" will only get worse. Other DAWs seem to multithread much more intelligently, Cubase probably needs a huge part of its core ('scuse the pun) engine rewritten to remove the heavy thread bottleneck which seems to haunt Cubase.

That said the current 8.5 patch has sorted out many of my CPU issues - to a degree - I still find Mixbus and Reaper to be far more CPU efficient running exactly the same VSTs. I simply do not have to worry about project sizes in those DAWs.
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Re: 16 inserts per track

Post by WillfullyDamned » Sun Jun 05, 2016 9:16 am

It's time to get out of the dark ages Steinberg. Everyone here needs to lose their tolerant mindset for this lazy kind of crap on their part. This "feature" shouldn't need to be a request, this should be moved to the Issues board because 6 pre fader inserts is a technical problem as far as I'm concerned that reflects an aspect of Cubase that makes it an inferior DAW in 2016. Do the Cubase developers even produce music? I'm left asking this to myself almost everytime I use Cubase. No more workarounds! :evil:

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Re: 16 inserts per track

Post by cinematree » Sat Sep 10, 2016 3:51 am

+1

I'm constantly running out of insert slots.

The other advantage of unlimited inserts would be a freeze function where you could still add inserts on top of a track that's already frozen (more than just slots 7 and 8). Then if you choose to unfreeze, you wouldn't have the problem of running out of slots.
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