VSL and 1.0.30

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cyril
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VSL and 1.0.30

Post by cyril » Fri Mar 03, 2017 12:50 pm

Hello
In the last video the speaker was telling that VSL articulation changes have been fixed in 1.0.30

Looking at the log of the updates I did not see anything about it (I search for VSL)

Best

Cyril
MacPro 2010 12 core 2.93 ghz 32 GB Mac OS X 10.11 2722 Rocket Raid Sata III card with 8 x ssd
VSL lib on a Raid 0 of 4 x 256 GB ssd Sata III - Raid 0 of 4 x 64 GB for other libs
System on a 1 TB ssd
Audio Motu PCI system 84 ins / 64 outs
Kbd : P80 Yamaha, S88 Komplete Kontrol, DX7, S25
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Synth : many.... (Emu, Rolland, Yamaha, Korg ...)
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Daniel at Steinberg
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Re: VSL and 1.0.30

Post by Daniel at Steinberg » Fri Mar 03, 2017 2:45 pm

There have been no specific fixes for VSL, but there have been a number of fixes involving the handling of playing technique changes resulting from triggers in VST Expression Maps, which would improve playback through any sample library, including VSL.

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gerrie
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Re: VSL and 1.0.30

Post by gerrie » Fri Mar 03, 2017 4:06 pm

VST Expressionmaps for VSL are working fine, but with regard to VSL's Vienna Ensemble Pro my biggest problem is to get instruments connect to the channels in VEPro in the first place. One instrument connects to the first channel ok, but then trying to connect the second instr. to channel two no midi information reaches VEPro. Strange enough, when changing the first instrument to the second channel it does react.?
I managed to get three channels working but then the fourth didn't.
It might has something to do with the existence of 16 midi ports in VEPro (makes 256 channels). Or do I miss something?

Gerard

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Re: VSL and 1.0.30

Post by cyril » Fri Mar 03, 2017 4:17 pm

Hello Gerard
Did you try using IAC ?
With 1.0.20 I had strange result using Dorico's instrument, I could not assign channel 10 to 16
I could not try with VSL as I received instruction how to do from the support too late.
When I had some time to do the trial, the trial licenses had expired.
It will be great if there was a tutorial.
Cyril
MacPro 2010 12 core 2.93 ghz 32 GB Mac OS X 10.11 2722 Rocket Raid Sata III card with 8 x ssd
VSL lib on a Raid 0 of 4 x 256 GB ssd Sata III - Raid 0 of 4 x 64 GB for other libs
System on a 1 TB ssd
Audio Motu PCI system 84 ins / 64 outs
Kbd : P80 Yamaha, S88 Komplete Kontrol, DX7, S25
I-Controls Pro, 2xMidi expression pedals
Synth : many.... (Emu, Rolland, Yamaha, Korg ...)
---
Macbook pro Retina 2.7 ghz 16 GB
---
Mac Mini server 10.10 (server EyeTV, Itunes, WEB, and Backup )
--
Logic X, MainStage
Dorico
Band in a Box, ORB composer
VSL : MIR PRO, Appassionata Strings I, Solo strings , Wind and Brass Complete, Dimension Brass, Overdrive
Kontakt 5, Omnisphere, QLSO, QLSC, CS 80, Arturia V6, Maximo, Genesis, Lunaris, Realivox
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gerrie
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Re: VSL and 1.0.30

Post by gerrie » Fri Mar 03, 2017 4:26 pm

Hi Cyril, I don't know what means IAC.

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Re: VSL and 1.0.30

Post by Alain LeBlond » Fri Mar 03, 2017 4:42 pm

Doing some try, it looks that the «default» articulation with VSL SE is always «pleg»...

Usually it is «sus»...

I use current Cubase Expression Map !

So ?
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Daniel at Steinberg
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Re: VSL and 1.0.30

Post by Daniel at Steinberg » Fri Mar 03, 2017 5:18 pm

You should be able to use VSL Event Input instances to map onto channels beyond 1-16, as I understand it. We will make it possible to access the channels beyond the first 16 in Dorico in due course.

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Re: VSL and 1.0.30

Post by dbudde » Fri Mar 03, 2017 5:28 pm

Channels 10-16 don't show correctly in the Dorico Play view, but it does work correctly. See this thread: viewtopic.php?f=246&t=113969
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Re: VSL and 1.0.30

Post by fratveno » Fri Mar 03, 2017 5:38 pm

For more Chanels just connect to another instance on VEP, or use the Event input if you must have more than 16 channels in one instance...
(re-tired)

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Re: VSL and 1.0.30

Post by mhcoffin » Fri Mar 03, 2017 11:35 pm

I am successful in connecting Dorico to VSL, and most of the articulations seem to do something. However, hairpins seem to do nothing at all. Is there a way around this?

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Re: VSL and 1.0.30

Post by fratveno » Sat Mar 04, 2017 12:23 am

One thing to remember: VSL, by default, uses CC11 rather than CC1(«modwheel») for continous dynamics. CC1 is used (by default) for vertical navigation in VI(P) matrices...
(re-tired)

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Re: VSL and 1.0.30

Post by fratveno » Sat Mar 04, 2017 12:37 am

Alain LeBlond wrote:Doing some try, it looks that the «default» articulation with VSL SE is always «pleg»...

Usually it is «sus»...

I use current Cubase Expression Map !

So ?
Where sus lives in the matrix varies between VSL instruments /libraries. Make sure the Natural technique in Dorico points to the correct cell. (Last time I tried the Cubase xmaps were a mess, requiring considerable cleanup/modification)
(re-tired)

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Re: VSL and 1.0.30

Post by cyril » Sat Mar 04, 2017 7:03 am

gerrie wrote:Hi Cyril, I don't know what means IAC.
Are you on Mac?
MacPro 2010 12 core 2.93 ghz 32 GB Mac OS X 10.11 2722 Rocket Raid Sata III card with 8 x ssd
VSL lib on a Raid 0 of 4 x 256 GB ssd Sata III - Raid 0 of 4 x 64 GB for other libs
System on a 1 TB ssd
Audio Motu PCI system 84 ins / 64 outs
Kbd : P80 Yamaha, S88 Komplete Kontrol, DX7, S25
I-Controls Pro, 2xMidi expression pedals
Synth : many.... (Emu, Rolland, Yamaha, Korg ...)
---
Macbook pro Retina 2.7 ghz 16 GB
---
Mac Mini server 10.10 (server EyeTV, Itunes, WEB, and Backup )
--
Logic X, MainStage
Dorico
Band in a Box, ORB composer
VSL : MIR PRO, Appassionata Strings I, Solo strings , Wind and Brass Complete, Dimension Brass, Overdrive
Kontakt 5, Omnisphere, QLSO, QLSC, CS 80, Arturia V6, Maximo, Genesis, Lunaris, Realivox
Final Cut pro
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Re: VSL and 1.0.30

Post by cyril » Sat Mar 04, 2017 7:06 am

fratveno wrote:One thing to remember: VSL, by default, uses CC11 rather than CC1(«modwheel») for continous dynamics. CC1 is used (by default) for vertical navigation in VI℗ matrices...
Can you map CC1 to CC11 in Dorico ?
MacPro 2010 12 core 2.93 ghz 32 GB Mac OS X 10.11 2722 Rocket Raid Sata III card with 8 x ssd
VSL lib on a Raid 0 of 4 x 256 GB ssd Sata III - Raid 0 of 4 x 64 GB for other libs
System on a 1 TB ssd
Audio Motu PCI system 84 ins / 64 outs
Kbd : P80 Yamaha, S88 Komplete Kontrol, DX7, S25
I-Controls Pro, 2xMidi expression pedals
Synth : many.... (Emu, Rolland, Yamaha, Korg ...)
---
Macbook pro Retina 2.7 ghz 16 GB
---
Mac Mini server 10.10 (server EyeTV, Itunes, WEB, and Backup )
--
Logic X, MainStage
Dorico
Band in a Box, ORB composer
VSL : MIR PRO, Appassionata Strings I, Solo strings , Wind and Brass Complete, Dimension Brass, Overdrive
Kontakt 5, Omnisphere, QLSO, QLSC, CS 80, Arturia V6, Maximo, Genesis, Lunaris, Realivox
Final Cut pro
Camera full HD

cyril
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Re: VSL and 1.0.30

Post by cyril » Sat Mar 04, 2017 7:16 am

Daniel at Steinberg wrote:There have been no specific fixes for VSL, but there have been a number of fixes involving the handling of playing technique changes resulting from triggers in VST Expression Maps, which would improve playback through any sample library, including VSL.
Thanks
Do you mean that the 30 articulations of VSL Solo violin are handle by Dorico ?
MacPro 2010 12 core 2.93 ghz 32 GB Mac OS X 10.11 2722 Rocket Raid Sata III card with 8 x ssd
VSL lib on a Raid 0 of 4 x 256 GB ssd Sata III - Raid 0 of 4 x 64 GB for other libs
System on a 1 TB ssd
Audio Motu PCI system 84 ins / 64 outs
Kbd : P80 Yamaha, S88 Komplete Kontrol, DX7, S25
I-Controls Pro, 2xMidi expression pedals
Synth : many.... (Emu, Rolland, Yamaha, Korg ...)
---
Macbook pro Retina 2.7 ghz 16 GB
---
Mac Mini server 10.10 (server EyeTV, Itunes, WEB, and Backup )
--
Logic X, MainStage
Dorico
Band in a Box, ORB composer
VSL : MIR PRO, Appassionata Strings I, Solo strings , Wind and Brass Complete, Dimension Brass, Overdrive
Kontakt 5, Omnisphere, QLSO, QLSC, CS 80, Arturia V6, Maximo, Genesis, Lunaris, Realivox
Final Cut pro
Camera full HD

fratveno
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Re: VSL and 1.0.30

Post by fratveno » Sat Mar 04, 2017 11:03 am

cyril wrote:
fratveno wrote:One thing to remember: VSL, by default, uses CC11 rather than CC1(«modwheel») for continous dynamics. CC1 is used (by default) for vertical navigation in VI℗ matrices...
Can you map CC1 to CC11 in Dorico ?
Not as such, but you don't have to. Take a look at the attached screenshots, which shows the VSL Solo Violin Preset Level 1. It consists of 3 matrices mapped to midi keys 36,37,38. The cell you want to reach is in red, sustain vibr marcato, living in matrix 2 at the 2nd horizontal position.
VSL-matriX.png
VSL Solo Violin Preset
(310.63 KiB) Not downloaded yet
The next screenshots shows how the Expression map in Dorico will look like for reaching this (red) cell...
VSL-inDorico.png
Xmap
(90.25 KiB) Not downloaded yet
Not every playing technique in Dorico will trigger at this time, but the basic ones certainly do (arco, legato, pizz, stacc., spicc., tremolo ... ) Later on, especially when we can define our own techniques, it should be possible to utilize the power of VSL to a much larger extent. I also get the impression that the Dorico team will try to implement some level of humanoid choices, like Human playback in Finale do. (E.g. calculate from the note value and the tempo the duration of a note (marked staccato) in milliseconds, and if it falls below a threshold (fixed) the technique Spiccato will be sent, if it falls above Staccato will be sent.)
(re-tired)

cyril
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Re: VSL and 1.0.30

Post by cyril » Sat Mar 04, 2017 1:53 pm

fratveno wrote:
cyril wrote:
fratveno wrote:One thing to remember: VSL, by default, uses CC11 rather than CC1(«modwheel») for continous dynamics. CC1 is used (by default) for vertical navigation in VI℗ matrices...
Can you map CC1 to CC11 in Dorico ?
Not as such, but you don't have to.
Sorry but you need to, how are you going to give expression to the instruments if CC1 is used to control the matrices .
In the Dimension instrument the matrices have 3 dimensions
fratveno wrote: Not every playing technique in Dorico will trigger at this time, but the basic ones certainly do (arco, legato, pizz, stacc., spicc., tremolo ... )
Is there is a list of expressions handle by Dorico

fratveno wrote: I also get the impression that the Dorico team will try to implement some level of humanoid choices, like Human playback in Finale do. (E.g. calculate from the note value and the tempo the duration of a note (marked staccato) in milliseconds, and if it falls below a threshold (fixed) the technique Spiccato will be sent, if it falls above Staccato will be sent.)
That will be great, but it has to be added to the score, so we can edit it

Best

Cyril
MacPro 2010 12 core 2.93 ghz 32 GB Mac OS X 10.11 2722 Rocket Raid Sata III card with 8 x ssd
VSL lib on a Raid 0 of 4 x 256 GB ssd Sata III - Raid 0 of 4 x 64 GB for other libs
System on a 1 TB ssd
Audio Motu PCI system 84 ins / 64 outs
Kbd : P80 Yamaha, S88 Komplete Kontrol, DX7, S25
I-Controls Pro, 2xMidi expression pedals
Synth : many.... (Emu, Rolland, Yamaha, Korg ...)
---
Macbook pro Retina 2.7 ghz 16 GB
---
Mac Mini server 10.10 (server EyeTV, Itunes, WEB, and Backup )
--
Logic X, MainStage
Dorico
Band in a Box, ORB composer
VSL : MIR PRO, Appassionata Strings I, Solo strings , Wind and Brass Complete, Dimension Brass, Overdrive
Kontakt 5, Omnisphere, QLSO, QLSC, CS 80, Arturia V6, Maximo, Genesis, Lunaris, Realivox
Final Cut pro
Camera full HD

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Re: VSL and 1.0.30

Post by fratveno » Sat Mar 04, 2017 3:15 pm

cyril wrote: how are you going to give expression to the instruments if CC1 is used to control the matrices .
In the Dimension instrument the matrices have 3 dimensions
You use CC11. Note the green markings in my screenshots...
(re-tired)

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gerrie
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Re: VSL and 1.0.30

Post by gerrie » Sat Mar 04, 2017 3:36 pm

Hi, here I am again.
I still have a lot of trouble with connecting instruments in Dorico to channels in VEPro. No proper Midi connection.
Sometimes one or two instruments work, then others don't. Daniel wrote: "There have been no specific fixes for VSL".
Is this one of them?

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Re: VSL and 1.0.30

Post by fratveno » Sat Mar 04, 2017 5:50 pm

gerrie wrote:Hi, here I am again.
I still have a lot of trouble with connecting instruments in Dorico to channels in VEPro. No proper Midi connection.
Sometimes one or two instruments work, then others don't. Daniel wrote: "There have been no specific fixes for VSL".
Is this one of them?
Hi Gerrie,
that sounds odd. I just tried it, and it works as expected. So we need to find out where it goes wrong for you ... this is what I do:
1) start the VEP Server.
2)add an Instance to it (and give it a name) and add as many channels of Vienna Instruments as you need to that, setting them to all to receive input on Bank/Cable 1 (VE PRO Plugin MIDI In 1) - Channel 1, Bank 1 - Channel 2, Bank 1 - Channel 3 etc. etc.
3) Start Dorico and add your instruments. In Play mode replace Halion with VEP. All players should get their endpoint updated to VEP maintaining their Midi Channel.
4) Click the 'e' button (upper right under VST Instrument) on Vienna Ensemble Pro. The CONNECT window will open. Now connect to the VEP Instance you created under 2)

Now everything should work. VEP will send Stereo back to Dorico on channel 1/2. If you want to mix in Dorico set the outputs for each channel in VEP to unique pairs.
(re-tired)

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gerrie
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Re: VSL and 1.0.30

Post by gerrie » Sat Mar 04, 2017 10:11 pm

fratveno!,
Thanks for the help. I did what you pointed out exactly and everything worked (I added ten players of woodwinds). Even after inserting the Cubase expression maps for VEPro instruments, everything was ok!
But then, after adding a next instrument in VEPro (violin) on midichannel 11 and trying to connect a new instrument in Dorico, there is no connection. Strange enough when changing a working instrument in dorico to channel 11 the VEPro instrument does react on midi. You don't hear the audio though, while the VI on channel 11 gives VU and the track goes to the same output as the others.
It looks like you first have to set up everything in Halion before switching to VEPro to let dorico make the right midi/audio connections
Is it possible to work with several Midi Ports also? In Nuendo you can choose the Ports per track. That is not possible in Dorico I guess. More instances or Event input?
Last edited by gerrie on Sat Mar 04, 2017 10:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: VSL and 1.0.30

Post by cyril » Sat Mar 04, 2017 10:41 pm

fratveno wrote:
cyril wrote: how are you going to give expression to the instruments if CC1 is used to control the matrices .
In the Dimension instrument the matrices have 3 dimensions
You use CC11. Note the green markings in my screenshots...
Fratveno :
How do you use CC11 in Dorico ?

Best

Cyril
MacPro 2010 12 core 2.93 ghz 32 GB Mac OS X 10.11 2722 Rocket Raid Sata III card with 8 x ssd
VSL lib on a Raid 0 of 4 x 256 GB ssd Sata III - Raid 0 of 4 x 64 GB for other libs
System on a 1 TB ssd
Audio Motu PCI system 84 ins / 64 outs
Kbd : P80 Yamaha, S88 Komplete Kontrol, DX7, S25
I-Controls Pro, 2xMidi expression pedals
Synth : many.... (Emu, Rolland, Yamaha, Korg ...)
---
Macbook pro Retina 2.7 ghz 16 GB
---
Mac Mini server 10.10 (server EyeTV, Itunes, WEB, and Backup )
--
Logic X, MainStage
Dorico
Band in a Box, ORB composer
VSL : MIR PRO, Appassionata Strings I, Solo strings , Wind and Brass Complete, Dimension Brass, Overdrive
Kontakt 5, Omnisphere, QLSO, QLSC, CS 80, Arturia V6, Maximo, Genesis, Lunaris, Realivox
Final Cut pro
Camera full HD

fratveno
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Re: VSL and 1.0.30

Post by fratveno » Sun Mar 05, 2017 5:27 pm

gerrie wrote:fratveno!,
Thanks for the help. I did what you pointed out exactly and everything worked (I added ten players of woodwinds). Even after inserting the Cubase expression maps for VEPro instruments, everything was ok!
But then, after adding a next instrument in VEPro (violin) on midichannel 11 and trying to connect a new instrument in Dorico, there is no connection. Strange enough when changing a working instrument in dorico to channel 11 the VEPro instrument does react on midi. You don't hear the audio though, while the VI on channel 11 gives VU and the track goes to the same output as the others.
It looks like you first have to set up everything in Halion before switching to VEPro to let dorico make the right midi/audio connections
Is it possible to work with several Midi Ports also? In Nuendo you can choose the Ports per track. That is not possible in Dorico I guess. More instances or Event input?
When adding more instruments, Dorico will not assign the endpoint (VST) and Midi Channel automatically, so you have to click the small arrow all the way to the left in Play mode, open the instrument/player pane, and set the VST and Midi Channel manually.

The VSL Event input works, so you can route more than 16 channels to the same instance on the server. Although I haven't tried it myself, I'm sure you can also add further VEP banks and connect those to their own instance on the server.
(re-tired)

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Re: VSL and 1.0.30

Post by fratveno » Sun Mar 05, 2017 5:36 pm

cyril wrote:How do you use CC11 in Dorico ?
In the middle of the Expression Map dialog there is a pane named Volume Dynamic. You click the button labeled Control Change and enter 11 in the text box. You have to do that for every playing technique in all Expression maps you use for VSL.

You don't HAVE to use CC11, but then you HAVE to modify the settings in the Vienna Instruments player.
(re-tired)

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Re: VSL and 1.0.30

Post by dbudde » Sun Mar 05, 2017 5:48 pm

It's pretty easy to do a global find and replace for the Volume Dynamic.

In Play mode go to expression map setup:

Import the Cubase expression map
Export that as a Dorico Library file
edit the Dorico file:
Find and replace all entries that match "param1>0<" with "param1>11<"
Find and replace all entries that match "kNoteVelocity" with "kCC"
Import the edited Dorico Library file in Play mode
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