Accent under tie

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GryptpypeThynne
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Accent under tie

Post by GryptpypeThynne » Wed Jun 07, 2017 9:15 pm

I've just discovered that Dorico doesn't allow an accent of any kind on a note being tied to. What I'm trying to write could be written either with an accent or tenuto (in the classical sense of weightiness) on the second note of a tie, indicating an emphasis on that rhythmic location.
Is this just not yet implemented, or not planned?

Thanks in advance!

andgle
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Re: Accent under tie

Post by andgle » Wed Jun 07, 2017 9:44 pm

Dorico doesn't allow multiple instances of the same articulation, or conflicting articulations on the same note. And since tied notes are considered one note in Dorico, the same applies for these.
However - you can choose wether you want to place the articulation on the first or last note of the tie chain.
You'll find options for this in the properties panel in Engrave mode.

You can also set a global default in the 'Articulations' section of 'Engraving Options'.
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Derrek
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Re: Accent under tie

Post by Derrek » Wed Jun 07, 2017 11:07 pm

You can also use a slur instead of a tie if you want an accent or tenuto on the second note of a same-pitch pair.
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GryptpypeThynne
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Re: Accent under tie

Post by GryptpypeThynne » Fri Jun 09, 2017 9:55 am

Thanks both of you!

LSalgueiro
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Re: Accent under tie

Post by LSalgueiro » Fri Jun 09, 2017 11:10 am

Derrek wrote:You can also use a slur instead of a tie if you want an accent or tenuto on the second note of a same-pitch pair.
You can, but you shouldn't, for correctness' sake.

You can override the position via the Properties panel, as andgle already pointed out, or you can set a global default behavior in Notation Options.

Derrek
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Re: Accent under tie

Post by Derrek » Fri Jun 09, 2017 6:07 pm

If one is stressing the second note of a ties pair, is it really a tie?
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LSalgueiro
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Re: Accent under tie

Post by LSalgueiro » Fri Jun 09, 2017 7:43 pm

Yes, especially for most wind players. It depends on the style of music, on the performance tradition and in the ways that tradition has crystalized into notation, as always. While some composers prefer notating those sorts of movements with detailed dynamics, others prefer to be rather more economical and use articulation instead.

In Body Mandala, Jonathan Harvey asks for what he calls a "lip vibrato", which, despite the name, is supported by the diaphragm as well. He writes the rhythm for the accents, ties all the notes and places a marcato under each one, which would actually be impossible to do in Dorico without a workaround!

A tremolo can (should, by Ms. Gould) take a tie, and while it is naturally a single event, conceptually, it can be subject to stresses in the middle.

GryptpypeThynne
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Re: Accent under tie

Post by GryptpypeThynne » Sun Jun 11, 2017 9:24 pm

Derrek wrote:If one is stressing the second note of a ties pair, is it really a tie?
What else would it be?

Derrek
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Re: Accent under tie

Post by Derrek » Sun Jun 11, 2017 11:15 pm

A slur: it's common enough in wind tonguing. One could also try notating it as a messa di voce.
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Rob Tuley
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Re: Accent under tie

Post by Rob Tuley » Sun Jun 11, 2017 11:20 pm

Derrek wrote:If one is stressing the second note of a ties pair, is it really a tie?
It depends on the instrument. Some (e.g. piano) can't do this on a "tied note" at all. On others, you can either change the loudness or timbre part way through a note, or articulate a new note. The notation should represent which option the composer wants.

Notation that relies on the visual difference between a slur or a tie between two notes with the same pitch is not what most players would want to read, IMO.

GryptpypeThynne
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Re: Accent under tie

Post by GryptpypeThynne » Mon Jun 12, 2017 1:39 pm

A slur would be between two different pitches, no? The note is not re-articulated at all, just emphasised on one beat. Mozart did this a fair bit in his horn parts using sfz markings. It's possible on any sustaining instrument.

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