Cue note workarounds

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Cor anglais 16
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Cue note workarounds

Post by Cor anglais 16 » Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:21 pm

I'm about to embark on a project that could benefit from cue notes (Schütz Uppsala Magnificat). Since they're not expected in the v1.1 update, has anyone yet developed a decent work-around that will allow my singers/instrumentalists to see strategic cues from the other parts? Presumably copy/pasting the necessary cues, but then maybe coloring them gray (if that would show up in print), or bracketing them with large bracket symbols... what has worked for you so far?

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Re: Cue note workarounds

Post by fratveno » Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:49 pm

No really good workaround, but Dorico comes with 2 varieties of default noteheads, named default and default (large) (Edit/Notehead/Default...) The Default large ones are used by default, and when changed to Default you come closer to a cue(ish) note size. If one could resize the rests as well, it would be even better. Not suitable for publication, but in a rehearsal situation, certainly better than nothing...
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Re: Cue note workarounds

Post by mati » Sat Jun 17, 2017 10:04 am

No workaround, I'm afraid, in my experience at least.

Just finished to engrave the second new work with Dorico, and both absolutely needed cue notes.
I made them with the technique that fratveno suggests, but the smaller headnote size is not so small and rests and dynamics don't help.

The pieces were kind of quite complex contemporary music, with not so much time to rehearse.
In short, players complained in both of cases; the cue notation was not clear for them and confused.

I really hope will be the next 'big thing' Dorico's team will address after the 1.1.

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Re: Cue note workarounds

Post by fratveno » Sat Jun 17, 2017 10:19 am

mati wrote:I really hope will be the next 'big thing' Dorico's team will address after the 1.1.
+100
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Re: Cue note workarounds

Post by Romanos401 » Sat Jun 17, 2017 2:11 pm

That, and stemless noteheads.

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Re: Cue note workarounds

Post by lbuckley » Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:22 pm

This is my method, posted on a different thread concerning the same subject:
I'm not at home right now, so I can't include a screenie to show you what it looks like, but I've been using one of the diamond-shape note heads to approximate cues, and of course I add text to show which instrument is being cued. Even though I haven't found a way to put the normal rest in to show it's just a cue and shouldn't be played, I find that it "intuits" quickly and easily from a player's perspective.
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Re: Cue note workarounds

Post by Peadey » Sat Jul 08, 2017 2:07 am

viewtopic.php?p=621762#p621762

Hope cue notes will come soon...

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Daniel at Steinberg
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Re: Cue note workarounds

Post by Daniel at Steinberg » Sun Jul 09, 2017 4:59 pm

We have already said (many times!) that we are working on cues for the next large update, along with unpitched percussion. If our plans come off as I hope they will, you will feel that it was worth the wait.

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Re: Cue note workarounds

Post by batwell » Mon Jul 10, 2017 3:19 pm

Hi Daniel, I know that you can't be specific but I am starting into the final phase of a fairly major commission that will absolutely require cue notes and has a deadline of early December. How confident (or not) do you feel that cue notes will be available by say October? I would much prefer to finish this project in Dorico but if cues won't be available in time I will need to switch to Sibelius to finish it. I would rather make that decision as early as possible. Any guidance you could provide will be much appreciated.

Thanks, Bob Atwell

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Re: Cue note workarounds

Post by Daniel at Steinberg » Mon Jul 10, 2017 9:30 pm

I'd be pretty confident about it, but I can't make any promises.

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Re: Cue note workarounds

Post by Rebecca Louise » Fri Aug 04, 2017 2:47 am

Ditto to the need for cue notes asap, thanks!

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Re: Cue note workarounds

Post by Daniel at Steinberg » Fri Aug 04, 2017 9:14 am

We are working on cues right now. This will include not only the ability to create cues simply and easily, but also the ability to change the size of (practically) any item in the score, so you'll be able to do all sorts of fun things with those capabilities. To be clear: these features are not coming in the forthcoming minor update, but in the next larger update, which is still a way off.

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Re: Cue note workarounds

Post by UMahnken » Fri Aug 04, 2017 9:48 am

Daniel at Steinberg wrote:
Fri Aug 04, 2017 9:14 am
... but also the ability to change the size of (practically) any item in the score ...
This are really very good news :-)

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Re: Cue note workarounds

Post by MarcLarcher » Fri Aug 04, 2017 11:57 am

Extremely good news :-)
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Re: Cue note workarounds

Post by R Pearl » Fri Aug 04, 2017 1:08 pm

Great to hear. As much as we want these new items, take your time and get it right! Too many other programs (naming no names) rush the "fix" out the door, only to break something else in the process.

We'll look forward to new functions, and the old ones still operational.

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Re: Cue note workarounds

Post by Daniel at Steinberg » Fri Aug 04, 2017 2:54 pm

Although we are going as fast as we can, we can go no faster...

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Re: Cue note workarounds

Post by JulianBennettHolmes » Fri Aug 04, 2017 3:47 pm

Daniel at Steinberg wrote:
Mon Jul 10, 2017 9:30 pm
I'd be pretty confident about it, but I can't make any promises.
That would be fantastic. I'm working on an orchestral project now that would have parts due at the end of November, and I'm really dreading taking the whole thing back into Finale to make parts. If Dorico has the capability to do cues by October, I will be extremely happy.
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Re: Cue note workarounds

Post by ryanwms » Fri Oct 27, 2017 4:31 am

I'm going to jump on the bandwagon here, as well.
I'm a DMA student, working on a project for an ensemble for performance in December, with score & parts due in early November. The piece I'm writing really needs cues (it uses some minimalism, and thus has long periods of rest for some parts).
I doubt it would matter much, but I'll be giving a seminar presentation in the Spring term to the composition faculty and student on the benefits of dropping "the other two programs" and switching to Dorico. Cues will be a deal-breaker for the department chair (and may get me heavily scolded when I turn in a score without them).
So - any updates? :)

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Re: Cue note workarounds

Post by thiagotiberio » Fri Oct 27, 2017 4:57 am

I am also working on a huge orchestral project due November 1st and having cues would make a HUGE difference... Should I hold my breath, Daniel? ;)

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Re: Cue note workarounds

Post by Daniel at Steinberg » Fri Oct 27, 2017 9:10 am

Unfortunately the new update will not be available in time to meet either of these deadlines, gentlemen. We're working as quickly as we can to get these new features into everybody's hands, but there are still a few more weeks to wait.

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Re: Cue note workarounds

Post by batwell » Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:07 pm

batwell wrote:
Mon Jul 10, 2017 3:19 pm
Hi Daniel, I know that you can't be specific but I am starting into the final phase of a fairly major commission that will absolutely require cue notes and has a deadline of early December. How confident (or not) do you feel that cue notes will be available by say October? I would much prefer to finish this project in Dorico but if cues won't be available in time I will need to switch to Sibelius to finish it. I would rather make that decision as early as possible. Any guidance you could provide will be much appreciated.

Thanks, Bob Atwell
I know you can't promise anything but I am starting to get desperate. Is there any chance the next rev. will be released before December 1st?

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Re: Cue note workarounds

Post by JulianBennettHolmes » Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:22 pm

Also curious if the next update will include a way to have multiple wind instruments on one staff — for example, flutes 1 and 2 sharing a single staff in the score. Or is that something for a later update?

It would be helpful to know this, because if that feature is not in the next update, I'll make a separate "Conductor's Score" layout where I manually put wind instruments together on single staves.
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Re: Cue note workarounds

Post by Daniel at Steinberg » Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:56 pm

Bob, I’m afraid the update will not quite be ready before the start of December.

Julian, the next update will not include the features required to show music for multiple players on the same staff. That’s an enormous feature that will certainly take more time to complete than we can manage in a maintenance update, especially one that already contains three very significant new features (cues, percussion, fingering). We only have a handful of developers!

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Re: Cue note workarounds

Post by thiagotiberio » Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:20 pm

Julian, you can always condense the players into a single staff yourself by copying (or cutting) the music and pasting it into the single staff — you can use the Paste Into Voice feature for that. You will find that sometimes you will need to exclude dynamics, and the filtering options will help with that.

And I assume you can keep everything within one file, although my project was so huge that I had to create a separate file just for the full score with condensed player staves. It's more of a pain to fix mistakes, but the separation is also good because it means it's harder to mess up the parts while you're producing the full score.

If I can assist further, let me know... Good luck!

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Re: Cue note workarounds

Post by ShikiSuen » Sat Nov 18, 2017 9:15 am

Daniel at Steinberg wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:56 pm
Bob, I’m afraid the update will not quite be ready before the start of December.

Julian, the next update will not include the features required to show music for multiple players on the same staff. That’s an enormous feature that will certainly take more time to complete than we can manage in a maintenance update, especially one that already contains three very significant new features (cues, percussion, fingering). We only have a handful of developers!
Hey, Daniel. Will this be a paid Dorico 1.5 update (like what Cubase does annually) or a free Dorico 1.2 update?
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