ties and slurs across 1st and 2nd time bars....

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Gretry
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ties and slurs across 1st and 2nd time bars....

Post by Gretry »

I need help to manage ties and slurs across 1st and 2nd time bars please.
Please see attached picture. In bar 4 I need a continuation of the slur and the tie but cannot seem to find a way to do this or am
I missing something while inputting? Any ideas?

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Re: ties and slurs across 1st and 2nd time bars....

Post by Derrek »

Can't see the image, but the best solution I have heard recently is to use the "lv" tie property and extend it in Engrave mode.
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Re: ties and slurs across 1st and 2nd time bars....

Post by Gretry »

Thanks for that. I attached the example as a file: I will try to send the image again. I have the same problem with slurs.....by the way.....

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Re: ties and slurs across 1st and 2nd time bars....

Post by Gretry »

OK I think I have sorted out the attachment...so here goes again.
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Daniel at Steinberg
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Re: ties and slurs across 1st and 2nd time bars....

Post by Daniel at Steinberg »

There’s no proper solution for this at the moment, as indicated by Derrek, but you can try using the l.v. tie property to add a tie to the note at the start of the second ending, and then move it leftwards in Engrave mode.

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Re: ties and slurs across 1st and 2nd time bars....

Post by Gretry »

OK Daniel and Derriek, thank you both.

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Re: ties and slurs across 1st and 2nd time bars....

Post by Gretry »

......."use the "lv" tie property " How do I manage to do this please? I have searched the Manual without success.

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Daniel at Steinberg
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Re: ties and slurs across 1st and 2nd time bars....

Post by Daniel at Steinberg »

When you select a note and open the Properties panel at the bottom of the window, you’ll see a property called ‘Laissez vibrer tie’. Switch this on. You’ll then need to move it manually in Engrave mode.

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Re: ties and slurs across 1st and 2nd time bars....

Post by Gretry »

Thanks Daniel, I am now up and running....'till the next time!

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Re: ties and slurs across 1st and 2nd time bars....

Post by cparmerlee »

Is it also true that there is currently no way to show ties extending into the second ending?

In the attached picture, it would be normal practice to show the rightmost part of ties into that C&F in the downbeat of the 2nd ending.
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ties into 2nd ending.PNG
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dankreider
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Re: ties and slurs across 1st and 2nd time bars....

Post by dankreider »

That’s the lv tie. You’d then just flip it backwards in Engrave mode.
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Re: ties and slurs across 1st and 2nd time bars....

Post by cparmerlee »

dankreider wrote:
Wed Dec 26, 2018 3:30 am
That’s the lv tie. You’d then just flip it backwards in Engrave mode.
OK. I missed the backwards part. I'm glad I asked.
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Re: ties and slurs across 1st and 2nd time bars....

Post by Vaughan Schlepp »

That workaround takes care of tie. What about the slur?
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Re: ties and slurs across 1st and 2nd time bars....

Post by dankreider »

Vaughan Schlepp wrote:
Wed Dec 26, 2018 12:02 pm
That workaround takes care of tie. What about the slur?
Same deal. You’d just need to tweak it to make it appear exactly as you want.
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Re: ties and slurs across 1st and 2nd time bars....

Post by bobk »

I need a tie into the beginning of a note that lasts almost four measures, as in the attached image.

Am I missing something, or does the L.V. tie work-around not work in this situation?

If it does, how do I move the tie?

Thanks!
Long-note-needing-tie.jpg
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Re: ties and slurs across 1st and 2nd time bars....

Post by dankreider »

You can't attach a "reverse" LV to the beginning of a tie chain. Edit: AFAIK...

Instead, switch to voice 2, add a whole note E (or whatever), attach a reversed LV tie to THAT note, move it down to middle C, and set the voice column index to 0, which will "hide" it behind the original C.
Last edited by dankreider on Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ties and slurs across 1st and 2nd time bars....

Post by dankreider »

To be honest, it was a pain in the neck. But it works. That's the best solution I know of.

Image
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Re: ties and slurs across 1st and 2nd time bars....

Post by bobk »

Thanks, Dan!

When I set "Voice Column Spacing Offset" to 0, nothing happened. To hide the note, I had to set it to - 1 7/8 spaces. See attached image, "Engrave mode".

But when I go back to write mode, it looks the attached image, "Write mode".

Thoughts?
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LV-tie-1-Write-mode.jpg
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LV-tie-1-Engrave-mode.jpg
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Re: ties and slurs across 1st and 2nd time bars....

Post by dankreider »

Did you definitely set the latter voice to column index 0? I'm not sure I understand exactly what you mean, sorry. Voice Column index set to 0 definitely works. To be safe, set them both to 0.

In Write mode, are you perhaps in Galley View? Galley View sometimes doesn't show those kinds of modifications correctly...
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Re: ties and slurs across 1st and 2nd time bars....

Post by bobk »

Ah, I see the problem!

I hadn't seen the "Voice Column Index" parameter (in the "Notes and Rests" section of the Properties window). I was editing "Voice column spacing offset" in the "Note Spacing" section.

Now I got it.

Two problems, though:

1. The fix applied only to the score. I had to do it separately on the part.

2. Adding the L.V. tie flipped the regular tie, and, when I flipped the regular tie back down, it was lower than the subsequent ties, requiring more tweaking. (Maybe the L.V. tie was somehow "pushing" it down.)

All's well now, though.

I hope the team implements a fix for this soon. I agree, it's a pain.

Thanks again for the help. Much appreciated.
Last edited by bobk on Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ties and slurs across 1st and 2nd time bars....

Post by dankreider »

1. Oh bummer. You didn't need to do it twice. Just Propagate Properties. You need to set a shortcut for this, since you need it all the time! I use Ctrl-Alt-P.

2. Yup, happened to me too. Flip the tie first, then adjust the LV last.

Glad it works, at least sufficient for now. I imagine the next improvement will simply be a "reverse" function for LV ties, since this is a common need. And since Dorico is pretty smart about this stuff, a "reverse" function would probably move the LV to the start of the tie chain automatically... I hope!
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Re: ties and slurs across 1st and 2nd time bars....

Post by bobk »

dankreider wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:25 am
1. Oh bummer. You didn't need to do it twice. Just Propagate Properties. You need to set a shortcut for this, since you need it all the time! I use Ctrl-Alt-P.

2. Yup, happened to me too. Flip the tie first, then adjust the LV last.

Glad it works, at least sufficient for now. I imagine the next improvement will simply be a "reverse" function for LV ties, since this is a common need. And since Dorico is pretty smart about this stuff, a "reverse" function would probably move the LV to the start of the tie chain automatically... I hope!
Great tips! Thanks again!
Bob

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Re: ties and slurs across 1st and 2nd time bars....

Post by FredGUnn »

Just checking in to make sure nothing has changed with this and the best way is to just modify a LV tie and then propagate. Correct playback isn't terribly important, but would be nice as I do have to email out a mockup (which they probably won't listen to anyway).
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Re: ties and slurs across 1st and 2nd time bars....

Post by dankreider »

FredGUnn wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 3:24 pm
Just checking in to make sure nothing has changed with this and the best way is to just modify a LV tie and then propagate. Correct playback isn't terribly important, but would be nice as I do have to email out a mockup (which they probably won't listen to anyway).
No, there aren’t any changes in this area.
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Re: ties and slurs across 1st and 2nd time bars....

Post by FredGUnn »

dankreider wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 3:59 pm
No, there aren’t any changes in this area.
Ok, thanks! As a feature request, it would be nice if there was a way for Dorico to handle this automatically including correct playback.

FWIW, in Finale this is buried in the somewhat esoteric Edit Frame dialog box which probably hasn't been updated in 20 years, but it still is only 2 clicks away for the user. Ctrl-click note in Speedy, click Tie End and it's done.

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