Control surface for Cubase (buying question)

Yes, I’ve been using Lemur for years and love it but I’m finding my touch isn’t as predictable as it was…


I have an MCU Pro with 3 extra faderbanks for a total of 32 motorized faders that I run in Mackie Control mode with Cubase 9.5 It ROCKS and it feels like a I have an analog console in my home studio. It’s very sensitive and stable, never comes disconnected. Takes a second to figure out how to set them up when you have multiple units in the menus; Even though it’s not explained anywhere, they load up backwards, so the 1st unit i on the bottom and as you at more Mackie Controls to the studio setup section, the subsequent units go on top in the menu. Anyway, it does more than I even use it for, I really just use it for volume track faders, panning, transport control, and the occasional aux send leveling. It rules. Makes the mixing process a lot more fun, and also I can usually see my whole mix in front of me which means you don’t have to menu dive to bank scroll unless you’ve got more than 32 tracks. I find that I’m able to dial in levels a lot better by floating them in with the faders than I ever was able to do with just the mouse and keyboard, especially since you can operate more than one fader at a time just like a real board.

Cheers,
MidiBoss

For some it works…others not. However I get much more speed and efficiency out of my iPad than I do my DAW controller and that is sort of what I was trying to convey to the OP. If you are just going to mix plus the associated functions as a mix engineer, by all means the ticket is a DAW controller. But what naturally happens is most everyone with a DAW wants more than what MCU protocol provides.

With a controller, if I have to search for any button more than 1 second, IMO that is counter-intuitive. Buttons should be configured and organized the way you think and use the DAW.

On my controller I have it configured down to 6 pages. Each page has a customized number of buttons, usually somewhere between 64 and 72 buttons per page. It could be a lot more, but with a smaller iPad, I feel 72 is about the max for myself. I know where every button is located except page 6 that has over a hundred less common PLE and LE commands.

Page 1 is for common functions that pertain with the Cubase Project Page…sort of like the home page.
Page 2 is most all functions pertaining to the drum/key edit windows.
Page 3 is for automation panel & Workspaces window. (I think 9 workspaces can be assigned a KC so that takes up 9 buttons right there.)
Page 4 is for commonly used functions in the 3 mix consoles. Creating channels, activating/deactivating tools etc.
Page 5 is for import export, DOP, and all audio processing.
Page 6 is for deeper midi functions that is connected to page 2 but contains a lot more PLE and Logical editor commands.

With each button, you program it whether or not it should stay on that page, or go to another page once executed. For example, pressing the drum edit button on page 1 the project page, opens the Cubase drum edit window, and takes me to Page 2 where I see all the controller buttons pertaining to functions for the drum edit page.

Or if I’m done working in the Automation & Workspaces page, I press the button Close Workspaces, my workspace configuration closes, and it takes me back to page 1on my controller. Everything is configurable to how you want to work and process stuff. And it’s a evolving improving type of thing where I’m always trying to maximize workflow. Basically you configure it to how your brain thinks about Cubase workflow.

When you create any button, in addition to the basic Cubase key command, you need to make several decisions. Some of these decisions include with a button press, whether or not it should stay on that page, or go do another page. Also you can program it to put in a timed delay if necessary, whether or not it should repeat its function when continually holding down the button (good for zoom in/out). And naturally the decision to turn a button into multiple key commands that make up a macro. Some macros need a pause between key commands. Maybe the macro button that just automatically turned on cycle and started playing on page 1 should then always take you back to page 2 for key editing.

So what is still missing here? The ignored windows focus issues…knowing what window is in focus therefore either using the mouse, or ctr+tab and hoping you can cycle through all the Cubase windows until the right one comes in focus.

I still use the QWERTY, but not nearly as much. That Ctr+Alt+% that I memorized years ago is long forgotten and replaced with a nice clear color coded descriptive button.

Greggybud - that post is related to MetaGrid, right? As good as it may be for key commands etc. As i understand It fails to offer fader support - In my mind that’s more of a shortcut tool rather than a real control surface in the traditional sense.

Many just need a control surface in it’s purist form with a format ready to go that you’re not customising for months and months. Fixed hardware controls, for me, is most important as i use my Mackie without even looking at it a lot of the time, it’s just muscle memory. Plus using the jog wheel to spin between sections for listening and muting/soloing on the fly is it’s real advantage. Particularly when anyone can sit by it and show you a part of the song easily and their ideas.

Yes, Metagrid as I was replying to Rhino. I think he was referring to something like Metagrid, but maybe just a controller. And I too would consider it more of a shortcut tool as it certainly does not replace a DAW controller. However a separate but similar app is soon being released with faders with the regular DAW control stuff from the developer.

I used to have an MCU and 2 extenders. I had constant fader issues - jittering, buzzing, totally failing. (I swapped out and/or repaired several but then just gave up.) And it never really felt right to me anyway. Too limited and the resolution wasn’t always sufficient.

About 2.5 years ago, I dove into the Slate Raven. It is NOT 100% optimal for Cubase, because it isn’t set up to control inputs channel and the control room as part of the standard mixer overlay (it can control them in different windows!) but the Batch Commander software that it runs is amazing. Saves me a ton of time by allowing me to build up extremely complex multi-track presets with all the necessary routing (far more than you can do with track presets) and then run with the touch of a button. You can design different templates for different production elements (I have one for tracking audio instruments, another for tracking midi, and several different ones for mixing. It’s great being able to edit automation by drawing with your fingertip instead of a mouse.

The learning curve is a bit steep (took me way longer than I thought it would to get comfortable with it) but once you have the "AH HA! moment, its really hard to imagine working without one.

I love the look of the Slate Raven screens/consoles - but what are they like for setting precise faders? The issue i always have with touch screens is when you release your finger it jumps the control slightly - do they suffer from that?

CC121 is the way to go.
I e-mailed Steinburg and they told me that the CC121 will be supported for at least four more years if not more.
As long as the drivers are updated when necessary, i cannot see anything going wrong.
I am getting a new one this week hopefully.
He said also there is nothing else in the pipeline.
Make of it what you will as that came from the horses mouth.
Second hand CC121’s are going for about £250
A new one in UK can be purchased for £319.
So ask for a price match.For the extra £50 it is worth getting a new one with a guarantee.
YOu always get what you pay for. Remember that!! :open_mouth:

With the CC121 you can hover a mouse over any synth virtual control knob and it then is controlled by your CC121.
Loads of other stuff as well. This unit looks like a fast workflow assistant to me.
Keep it simple and let the music flow.

all the best
John

Too many cooks in the kitchen, looks like Clapham Junction to me!! :smiley:
looking at that photograph, i think NASA might get interested or SpaceX :stuck_out_tongue:
Making music should not look that difficult

All the best
John

Have been using all sorts over the years, now have settled on a Presonus FaderPort 16. Works well in a smaller facility.

You know, i thought that for many years too. And i had a swap around earlier this year after selling a large workstation synth and invested the money into more guitar stuff (As that’s what i prefer to play really), and bought some much needed shelving, cable management etc.

And i gotta say a clean environment, for me, is so much better for my workflow. I had 4-5 controllers on my desk that i had built up and adapted over the years, and now i just have an MCU sat there. Don’t underestimate a clean/clear environment can do for your headspace. Looking back, I was a slave to my desk only facing forwards and continuously setting up controllers and not really producing much music as a by-product of that.

Now i move about more as it’s a nicer environment to do music in.

Since the early 2000’s, I have been in search of the best control solution and it has been frustrating in terms of quality, features and/or price. Right now, I use the Tascam DM-3200 digital mixer & Console 1 which together do a decent job reasonably well. Ideally, if you have the budget, the SSL Matrix 2 is probably one of the best solutions if you use hardware processors. My partner and I are putting together our $$ to buy one, hopefully within the next 6 months.

In the $1,000-$1,500 range, the Avid Artist Mix or the Mackie MCU are probably the best options. The ICON control surfaces look promising but I’ve read a LOT of complaints from many users.

Are there any control surfaces besides the Artist Mix that have level meters when used with Cubase?

You can get a level meter from the generic remote setup, I’ve had it running on my BCR2000 before.
Also the Nektar Panorama P series can display meters for the track you’ve selected on their display.

ICON QCon ProX have level meters; I personally don’t tend to focus on them and look to my onscreen mixer.

Steve.

Yeah it’s all very subjective of course, but in my case i’ve found that by reducing control surfaces (I had a setup incredibly similar to yours) and creating a bit of space i’m just producing more music. I wasn’t even seeing projects through to completion before - Maybe 3-4 songs a year. I’ve completed 6-7 since May, but they’re of so much better quality - less looping and copying of regions, for example, because i’m just that little more clearer and physically active in how i record (i think?!). I dunno haha!!

I didn’t do it on purpose either, i just had a clean up and thought i’d put stuff back ‘as i needed’ through pure laziness initially - cause they were bundled in a corner with cables spaghetti’d all over. …And i look over now, and they’re still sat there in a pile.

I think for me, it’s just removing the temptation to tinker, i just love hardware and setting up controllers, but it’s to the detriment of producing music which is what i SHOULD be focusing on - When i review it now, most of the ‘quick’ actions i was performing were standard low cuts, bit of compression etc. So i have a few track templates setup with those ready to go and quick controls for parameters i know i need. i.e. Let Cubase do the work for me - previous to that i was on a mission on how to break the 8 control limit. But now i just embrace it.

I put a bit of ambient lighting in the corner, put my guitar amps there, a stool for playing… And where i used to remain seated at my desk and bring the guitar over, i go and sit in that corner and play/record - it’s bringing so much more out of me musically as i don’t have that almost-magnetic pull to the desk as a focal point anymore. Just creating that space and less desk clutter seems to do me wonders.

That’s only my personal experience, but after years and years of tinkering with control surfaces it may be a valuable lesson for anyone who finds themselves caught in that loop as it’s easy to forget about the artistry of music and get overly focused/obsessed on technicalities, workflows etc. Not saying you are of course as this is about me, but i definitely had 70-80% of my focus as a technician more than an artist/musician.