Dorico 3 Elements doesn't recognize Kontakt 5 or 6

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Silent Drummer
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Re: Dorico 3 Elements doesn't recognize Kontakt 5 or 6

Post by Silent Drummer »

I´m having the same problem with Dorico 3 Pro. I hope there will be a happy end to this soon...

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Re: Dorico 3 Elements doesn't recognize Kontakt 5 or 6

Post by Ulf »

alindsay55661 wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 7:12 pm
For your information, here is the latest diagnostic report after a fresh install: https://1drv.ms/u/s!AkJKS0bhzKxZrXWCIOR ... 8?e=UwwlDf
Thanks for the data. This is all totally weird. According to the latest log it said:
2019-09-06 10:35:51 : Plugin refused: Komplete Kontrol.dll
2019-09-06 10:35:51 : Plugin accepted: Kontakt 5 16out.dll
2019-09-06 10:35:54 : Plugin refused: Kontakt 5 8out.dll
2019-09-06 10:35:54 : Plugin refused: Kontakt 5.dll
2019-09-06 10:35:54 : Plugin accepted: Kontakt.dll

So Kontakt and Kontakt 5 16out got accepted. Why does it not turn up in the list of instruments in Dorico then?

Can we try something different then. You say it works in Dorico 2.
Under AppData/Roaming/Steinberg is also a VSTAudioEngine2_64 folder. If you go into that one and delete the Module Cache.xml file and then start Dorico 2, does Kontakt still get recognized by Dorico or also blacklisted?

In 99% of all cases, when a plug-in gets blacklisted, then because it is crashing in the vstscanner. This is an additional program that acts as a safeguard. It tries to load all plug-ins once and sort those out that make trouble, so that the audio engine later only meets well behaved plug-ins.

This is all so weird, I propose we do a TeamViewer session next week, where I can see your desktop and see myself. In what timezone do you live?
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Re: Dorico 3 Elements doesn't recognize Kontakt 5 or 6

Post by Ulf »

Silent Drummer wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 7:46 pm
I´m having the same problem with Dorico 3 Pro. I hope there will be a happy end to this soon...
Could you please also post a diagnostic report? Maybe your case is different, you can never rule it out.
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Re: Dorico 3 Elements doesn't recognize Kontakt 5 or 6

Post by alindsay55661 »

Ulf wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 8:19 pm
alindsay55661 wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 7:12 pm
For your information, here is the latest diagnostic report after a fresh install: https://1drv.ms/u/s!AkJKS0bhzKxZrXWCIOR ... 8?e=UwwlDf
Thanks for the data. This is all totally weird. According to the latest log it said:
2019-09-06 10:35:51 : Plugin refused: Komplete Kontrol.dll
2019-09-06 10:35:51 : Plugin accepted: Kontakt 5 16out.dll
2019-09-06 10:35:54 : Plugin refused: Kontakt 5 8out.dll
2019-09-06 10:35:54 : Plugin refused: Kontakt 5.dll
2019-09-06 10:35:54 : Plugin accepted: Kontakt.dll

So Kontakt and Kontakt 5 16out got accepted. Why does it not turn up in the list of instruments in Dorico then?

Can we try something different then. You say it works in Dorico 2.
Under AppData/Roaming/Steinberg is also a VSTAudioEngine2_64 folder. If you go into that one and delete the Module Cache.xml file and then start Dorico 2, does Kontakt still get recognized by Dorico or also blacklisted?

In 99% of all cases, when a plug-in gets blacklisted, then because it is crashing in the vstscanner. This is an additional program that acts as a safeguard. It tries to load all plug-ins once and sort those out that make trouble, so that the audio engine later only meets well behaved plug-ins.

This is all so weird, I propose we do a TeamViewer session next week, where I can see your desktop and see myself. In what timezone do you live?
I completely removed Dorico 2 and 3, include Steinberg Roaming App data. I then resinstalled both versions + components + content.

Dorico 2

I started by opening Dorico 2 and adding the Native Instruments path for VST2. Everything works as expected:

Image

Diagnostics of the working Dorico 2 are available here: https://1drv.ms/u/s!AkJKS0bhzKxZrXYRg8N ... b?e=JNbzcb

Dorico 3

I then opened Dorico 3 and followed the same steps, adding the Native Instruments VST2 path. Sadly, Kontakt shows up in the blacklist file, and is not available in the UI:

Image

Diagnostics of the failing Dorico 3 are available here: https://1drv.ms/u/s!AkJKS0bhzKxZrXdMHRJ ... K?e=RYEGiG

I'm afraid there is nothing more I can do without guidance on your end. I am happy to screen share to facilitate troubleshooting.

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Re: Dorico 3 Elements doesn't recognize Kontakt 5 or 6

Post by Ulf »

Alindsay55661, I'm completely puzzled about this. Let's do a screen sharing session. Please send a mail to 'u dot stoermer at steinberg dot de' with convenient time slots for you (and what time zone you are in).
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Re: Dorico 3 Elements doesn't recognize Kontakt 5 or 6

Post by Silent Drummer »

Ulf wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 8:21 pm
Silent Drummer wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 7:46 pm
I´m having the same problem with Dorico 3 Pro. I hope there will be a happy end to this soon...
Could you please also post a diagnostic report? Maybe your case is different, you can never rule it out.
Hi Ulf, here a link to the Dorico Diagnostics Report (could not post it here because the file is too big...) :

https://www.dropbox.com/s/8nljudhspli50 ... s.zip?dl=0

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Re: Dorico 3 Elements doesn't recognize Kontakt 5 or 6

Post by Ulf »

Silent Drummer wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:31 am
Hi Ulf, here a link to the Dorico Diagnostics Report (could not post it here because the file is too big...) :
Yes, same issue. As you seem to be in the same time zone as me, would you be able to have a screen sharing session with me, maybe even today?
I'm sending you a private mail with my telephone number.
I really would like to sort this out soon, as more and more are affected by it.
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Re: Dorico 3 Elements doesn't recognize Kontakt 5 or 6

Post by Ulf »

I just had a very long screen sharing session with Silent Drummer and I tried several things on his computer but could not get to the bottom of this. I need to wait until Monday when I'm back to the office and can discuss with my colleagues.

Many thanks to Silent Drummer again for taking the time for me and everyone else affected by this.
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Re: Dorico 3 Elements doesn't recognize Kontakt 5 or 6

Post by jose7822 »

I’m new to Dorico 3 Pro, just cross-graded from Finale 25, and I’m experiencing something similar, except Kontakt 6 DOES show up for me.

However, there are other VST 2 synths and plugins that don’t, such as Eventide, Omnisphere, Soundtoys, Keyscapes, Toontrack and Synthogy Ivory (possibly others too). I admit I haven’t tried all of the things suggested here, since I just stumbled on this thread while looking for a solution. But I did do include all the paths that I have in Cubase 10 Pro and Studio One 4 Pro, both of which show all of my plugins without issue.

I will try the advice given here and will report back. Wish me luck!! :-P
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Re: Dorico 3 Elements doesn't recognize Kontakt 5 or 6

Post by Daniel at Steinberg »

jose7822, you'll need to whitelist the specific VST2.x plug-ins you want to use in Dorico. Check this support article.

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Re: Dorico 3 Elements doesn't recognize Kontakt 5 or 6

Post by Nikola Kołodziejczyk »

I am also affected by this, but it is on Dorico 3 Pro and UVIWorkstationVST is the blacklisted VST. It worked in Dorico 2, it is on the whitelist, but keeps getting added on the blacklist in Dorico 3 Pro. If there is a need for any data please do not hesitate to ask.
Edit: also, from the logs: it gets accepted during the routine check, but still gets on the blacklist somehow
Macbook Pro12,1, macOS 10.14.6, Dorico pro 3.0.10.1051, Sibelius 8.6. Native language: Polish

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Re: Dorico 3 Elements doesn't recognize Kontakt 5 or 6

Post by Ulf »

Thanks for the offer, but we have enough data. Also, we understand that the problem is not specific to a certain plug-in, but may occur with any.
We'll further investigate and report back.
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Re: Dorico 3 Elements doesn't recognize Kontakt 5 or 6

Post by jose7822 »

Daniel at Steinberg wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 4:23 pm
jose7822, you'll need to whitelist the specific VST2.x plug-ins you want to use in Dorico. Check this support article.
Thanks Daniel!

I got lucky and was able to add the most needed plugins to the whitelist text document file, so now they show up in Dorico. I left a bunch of my UAD, and others, out for now (may add them later). Hopefully you guys can help the OP too!

May I suggest using whatever method Cubase/Nuendo use that automatically finds all your plugins as long as the paths are set correctly in the Plugin Manager? I understand you’re trying to keep Dorico as streamline as possible. But, at the same time, I feel like this is an inconvenience placed on the users, that doesn’t even save you any trouble since I’m sure this has to be one of the most asked question by new users (at least I assume that given what’s needed from the user in order to make VST 2 plugins work in Dorico).

Unfortunately, for whatever reason, there’s still a LOT of plugin developers not jumping on the VST3 protocol. Please don’t penalize your users because of them :-).

Thanks again!!
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Re: Dorico 3 Elements doesn't recognize Kontakt 5 or 6

Post by alindsay55661 »

Ulf wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 6:12 pm
Thanks for the offer, but we have enough data. Also, we understand that the problem is not specific to a certain plug-in, but may occur with any.
We'll further investigate and report back.
Doe this mean you no longer need to screen share with me? Let me know otherwise. My timezone is MST, but I typically have early UK meetings so am good for GMT+1 3pm+. On September 9 I have availability at GMT+1 3:30pm or anytime after 4:30pm.

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Re: Dorico 3 Elements doesn't recognize Kontakt 5 or 6

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Any approach to successfully persuade Native Instruments to support VST3 among their products?
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Re: Dorico 3 Elements doesn't recognize Kontakt 5 or 6

Post by Rob Tuley »

If you look at the NI forums, the usual response from other NI users to a request for VST3 is something like "we can use all the features that are already in NI sample libraries without VST3, so it's a waste of time".

NI doesn't want to be compatible with the rest of the world. They make more profit if you have to buy everything from them.

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Re: Dorico 3 Elements doesn't recognize Kontakt 5 or 6

Post by Ulf »

alindsay55661 wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 5:40 am
Doe this mean you no longer need to screen share with me? Let me know otherwise. My timezone is MST, but I typically have early UK meetings so am good for GMT+1 3pm+. On September 9 I have availability at GMT+1 3:30pm or anytime after 4:30pm.
Many thanks for the offer, I'm not sure, yet. Silent Drummer is on Windows and it could be that on Mac we get a little more information out of the system, but I need to discuss with other engineers first.
I'll get back to you if need arises.
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Re: Dorico 3 Elements doesn't recognize Kontakt 5 or 6

Post by PaulWalmsley »

alindsay55661 wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 7:12 pm
For your information, here is the latest diagnostic report after a fresh install: https://1drv.ms/u/s!AkJKS0bhzKxZrXWCIOR ... 8?e=UwwlDf
I've just worked through the process of removing the v3 audio engine configuration data in order to see what I had to do to get Kontakt 6 loaded. Please try the following to see if it works for you:

1. Ensure Dorico and the audio engine aren't running
2. Open %APPDATA%\Steinberg in Explorer and rename VSTAudioEngine3_64 to something like VSTAudioEngine3_64.saved (so that later you can copy any other changes from your whitelist file)
3. run Dorico. It will re-initialise the audio engine directory, and if you had an whitelist file for Dorico 2 then it will migrate that

Dorico should now have initialised, but it won't pick up Kontakt 5 or 6 yet because the plugin path hasn't yet been set, so do this:
4. Create a new empty project
5. Do Preferences > Play > VST Plugin Paths...
6. Add the location of Kontakt, eg for me it's C:\Program Files\Native Instruments\VSTPlugins 64 bit
7. Close and restart Dorico

Dorico now shows 'Kontakt' (6) and 'Kontakt 5 16 out'. It isn't necessary to add 'Kontakt' to the whitelist as it's already in our internal whitelist.
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Re: Dorico 3 Elements doesn't recognize Kontakt 5 or 6

Post by Ulf »

Hello folks,
you might have seen this thread: viewtopic.php?f=246&t=167814
The issue with that guy was a line ending thing, just carriage return without a linefeed.

You may also try this out, though from my perspective, this is different to your case here.

Unfortunately, we did not get much further on the case, please be a bit more patient. Many thanks.
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Re: Dorico 3 Elements doesn't recognize Kontakt 5 or 6

Post by alindsay55661 »

PaulWalmsley wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:28 pm
alindsay55661 wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 7:12 pm
For your information, here is the latest diagnostic report after a fresh install: https://1drv.ms/u/s!AkJKS0bhzKxZrXWCIOR ... 8?e=UwwlDf
I've just worked through the process of removing the v3 audio engine configuration data in order to see what I had to do to get Kontakt 6 loaded. Please try the following to see if it works for you:

1. Ensure Dorico and the audio engine aren't running
2. Open %APPDATA%\Steinberg in Explorer and rename VSTAudioEngine3_64 to something like VSTAudioEngine3_64.saved (so that later you can copy any other changes from your whitelist file)
3. run Dorico. It will re-initialise the audio engine directory, and if you had an whitelist file for Dorico 2 then it will migrate that

Dorico should now have initialised, but it won't pick up Kontakt 5 or 6 yet because the plugin path hasn't yet been set, so do this:
4. Create a new empty project
5. Do Preferences > Play > VST Plugin Paths...
6. Add the location of Kontakt, eg for me it's C:\Program Files\Native Instruments\VSTPlugins 64 bit
7. Close and restart Dorico

Dorico now shows 'Kontakt' (6) and 'Kontakt 5 16 out'. It isn't necessary to add 'Kontakt' to the whitelist as it's already in our internal whitelist.
Sorry Paul, no dice for me on this.

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Re: Dorico 3 Elements doesn't recognize Kontakt 5 or 6

Post by alindsay55661 »

Ulf wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:48 pm
Hello folks,
you might have seen this thread: viewtopic.php?f=246&t=167814
The issue with that guy was a line ending thing, just carriage return without a linefeed.

You may also try this out, though from my perspective, this is different to your case here.

Unfortunately, we did not get much further on the case, please be a bit more patient. Many thanks.
Sadly Dorico 3 fails to recognize Kontakt even when I'm not using a whitelist. For now I am working through VEP, so not a pressing matter, but still inconvenient.

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Re: Dorico 3 Elements doesn't recognize Kontakt 5 or 6

Post by Ulf »

Today I got a clean MacBook with 10.14.6, installed Dorico 3 and then Kontakt 5 and 6 with the latest version as provided by Native Access. Then started Dorico and both Kontakts appeared.
Kontakt 5 has here with me version 5.8.1(R43) and Kontakt 6 is v6.1.1 (R66). What version of the plug-ins are you guys running?

Also, I want the mac users to try the following:
- Open a Terminal window and do

cd /Applications/Dorico 3.app/Contents/Applications/VSTAudioEngine3.app/Contents/Components/VSTPlugManager.bundle/Contents/Resources

and then

./vst2xscanner -p /Library/Audio/Plug-Ins/VST/Kontakt\ 5\ 16out.vst

and if you have Kontakt 6 then also

./vst2xscanner -p /Library/Audio/Plug-Ins/VST/Kontakt.vst

What does happen?
Here with me, after a few seconds it spits out following text:
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<vst2xplugin><path>/Library/Audio/Plug-Ins/VST/Kontakt 5 16out.vst</path><subCategory>Instrument</subCategory><cid>5653544E694F376B6F6E74616B742035</cid><editorCid>5653454E694F376B6F6E74616B742035</editorCid><name>Kontakt 5 16out</name><vendor>Native Instruments GmbH</vendor><sdkVersion>VST 2.4</sdkVersion><vendorVersion>5.8.1.0</vendorVersion><latencySamples>0</latencySamples><canDoublePrecision>0</canDoublePrecision><audioInputBusCount>0</audioInputBusCount><audioOutputBusCount>11</audioOutputBusCount><mainAudioInputArr>0</mainAudioInputArr><mainAudioOutputArr>3</mainAudioOutputArr></vst2xplugin>

With the lines above you just invoked the plug-in scanner manually. This is exactly that, what Dorico resp. the audio engine also does for every plug-in that it finds in the search path. So it is the output of this, that decides if a plug-in gets blacklisted.

On Windows this works similarly, but putting in the paths is more complicated and you have to know what you are doing.
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Re: Dorico 3 Elements doesn't recognize Kontakt 5 or 6

Post by fauvel »

I have problems with the UVIWorkstationVST being blacklisted, so I did the following:
./vst2xscanner -p /Library/Audio/Plug-Ins/VST/UVIWorkstationVST.vst

The output is:
Killed: 9

So definitely this is not what should happen.

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Re: Dorico 3 Elements doesn't recognize Kontakt 5 or 6

Post by Ulf »

fauvel wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:47 am
I have problems with the UVIWorkstationVST being blacklisted, so I did the following:
./vst2xscanner -p /Library/Audio/Plug-Ins/VST/UVIWorkstationVST.vst

The output is:
Killed: 9

So definitely this is not what should happen.
Okay, thanks for confirming. Yes, that should not happen. How about the version of UVI, is it up to date?
And does it load in Dorico 2, but not in Dorico 3?
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Re: Dorico 3 Elements doesn't recognize Kontakt 5 or 6

Post by Ulf »

Also to anyone else who does the manual execution of the vst2xscanner:

Before launching the vst2xscanner, please run the Console app.
Then, while the vst2xscanner is doing it's job, have a look under 'Mac Analytics' or 'system.log' if there are events from the respective plug-in appear.a

One of our engineers has the suspicion that it could have to do with Apple's new 'hardened runtime'.
On the other hand, Windows users are also affected, but could be just that we are chasing two issue.

In any case, please report also the OS version number you are on.
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