Playing Technique(s)

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mountainmusic
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Playing Technique(s)

Post by mountainmusic » Fri Oct 21, 2016 3:41 pm

Hello,

Is there a way to add a Playing Technique that is not listed? I want to add fluttergrowl to a trumpet part but when I press Shift-P and type it in and press return, the text disappears.
Any suggestions?

Also when I write "sul pont" for a string part, the default changes it to a symbol. I prefer the words, so can I override this somehow?

Perhaps an update could allow users generate their own Playing techniques?

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Daniel at Steinberg
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Re: Playing Technique(s)

Post by Daniel at Steinberg » Fri Oct 21, 2016 3:46 pm

For now, you can add unknown playing techniques as text using Shift+X, which would be the way around both of these problems.

In the future we definitely intend to make it possible to define your own playing techniques.

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Re: Playing Technique(s)

Post by mountainmusic » Fri Oct 21, 2016 4:17 pm

Thanks, Daniel!

Another quick question: Is there a way to add an arrow between playing techniques? Like when I want to direct the violinist to change from sul pont to sul tasto over X-amount of measures.

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Re: Playing Technique(s)

Post by Daniel at Steinberg » Fri Oct 21, 2016 4:37 pm

Not yet, but this will be added very soon: the developer who is working on playing techniques is on holiday this week but I hope this is what he'll be working on when he returns, I hope refreshed, on Monday.

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Re: Playing Technique(s)

Post by mountainmusic » Fri Oct 21, 2016 4:58 pm

Great! Will we be able to enter it in the style of the dynamics entry mode? That would be fabulous :)
i.e. select the notes and then press Shift-P and then type "sul pont -> sul tasto"

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Re: Playing Technique(s)

Post by zmanjams » Fri Oct 21, 2016 5:29 pm

Daniel at Steinberg wrote:For now, you can add unknown playing techniques as text using Shift+X, which would be the way around both of these problems.

In the future we definitely intend to make it possible to define your own playing techniques.
Before posting a similar question yesterday (viewtopic.php?f=246&t=103789) I had figured out the workaround of using text. In light of Daniel's response I'm wondering whether there will be a way to easily convert that workaround text into full fledged playing techniques in the catalog in the future. While a workaround is good for now, not having artifacts of that in long lived files would be better.

On related note, to ensure the playing techniques added as text match existing playing techniques it appears that the font for playing techniques is Academico Regular at 8 points. Is this correct?

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Re: Playing Technique(s)

Post by Daniel at Steinberg » Sat Oct 22, 2016 11:27 pm

Look at the settings of the 'Playing techniques' entry in Engrave > Font Styles to be sure of what the font to be used for playing techniques is.

I don't know whether we will be able to convert manual text into "real" playing techniques at a later date. It would require some fairly fuzzy logic to identify the text items that should be turned into playing techniques. In general I think this is the kind of thing we should avoid, since it risks changing the appearance of existing projects in an unpredictable way.

If there are obvious playing techniques that you think we're missing, best to make sure you tell me what they are, so that I can add them to the default set as soon as possible.

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Re: Playing Technique(s)

Post by andgle » Sat Oct 22, 2016 11:33 pm

Daniel at Steinberg wrote: If there are obvious playing techniques that you think we're missing, best to make sure you tell me what they are, so that I can add them to the default set as soon as possible.
Harmon mute!
Anders

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Re: Playing Technique(s)

Post by Daniel at Steinberg » Sat Oct 22, 2016 11:33 pm

You want it as text? We have various symbols for harmon mute with the stem half-in/half-out, etc.

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Re: Playing Technique(s)

Post by andgle » Sat Oct 22, 2016 11:36 pm

Sorry, I've only used text previously. Didn't even look at the other symbols. And when user defined playing techniques are implemented, this won't be a problem.
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Re: Playing Technique(s)

Post by Daniel at Steinberg » Sat Oct 22, 2016 11:37 pm

In the meantime, though, I would welcome feedback from you and other users about what playing techniques you commonly use that are not included. I managed to come up with more than 220 of them on my own, but I bet there are more out there.

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Re: Playing Technique(s)

Post by andgle » Sat Oct 22, 2016 11:42 pm

Of course. Maybe there should be sticky threads for stuff like this, so that people know where to post suggestions without making new threads for everything.
Anders

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Re: Playing Technique(s)

Post by high5ths » Sat Oct 22, 2016 11:46 pm

Here is a suggestion -- I know you're drowning in them, but I can't help myself.

When I open the playing technique popover and type in a playing technique, I want whatever I type to appear, and I want it to match the formatting of other playing techniques. Maybe that means the program "converts" my unrecognized playing technique into a text object with formatting matching other playing techniques -- that would be a great solution to this issue. Similarly, if I type in an unrecognized dynamic marking to the Shift-D popover, it could become a text object with fake-dynamic formatting. The idea that unrecognized input disappears into the air means that before every input, I have to ask myself, "Is this in Dorico's dictionary?" and this friction significantly undermines the usefulness of the wonderful popovers. If nothing else, the paragraph styles included in the "default" Dorico document should already exist so I don't need to root around for them.

Thanks for considering all of this. I know the modes of interaction with Dorico are very carefully thought-through, but this does feel like a corner that us pros are going to be banging up against a lot. I love the popovers and eliminating friction in using them would be good!
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Re: Playing Technique(s)

Post by tubbstep » Sat Oct 22, 2016 11:51 pm

Daniel at Steinberg wrote:You want it as text? We have various symbols for harmon mute with the stem half-in/half-out, etc.
Yes please! I write for a lot of brass bands, and you can never trust a cornet player to decipher a picture! :lol:

(In all seriousness, usually: [Harmon Mute (Stem In/Out)] is great. Longwinded but easy to understand!)

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Re: Playing Technique(s)

Post by mountainmusic » Mon Oct 24, 2016 3:11 am

Daniel at Steinberg wrote:
If there are obvious playing techniques that you think we're missing, best to make sure you tell me what they are, so that I can add them to the default set as soon as possible.
Hi Daniel,

Thanks for all the fabulous support on this thread! :)
Here are some suggestions, and ideas, for playing techniques:

When a playing technique is chosen, one should be able to go to the Properties and select whether we want it to be a symbol or a text; some performers love symbols, other ones ask you for as much text as possible.
And, also important, the "Alternative Text" should have the option of completely changing the text, not just adding text. For example, this way I can select the "sul pont" playing technique but then replace it with my choice of abbreviation or language: s.p., or au chevalet, etc. (if I am writing a score for an ensemble in Germany, I will include certain playing techniques written in German rather than Italian).
It would be helpful to have a dropdown menu for "Alternative Text" with many suggestions for different abbreviations or languages.
I mentioned this questions above, but I wanted to ask it again because it could be a very helpful possible addition: For transitions (arrows) between playing techniques, will we be able to enter it in the style of the dynamics entry mode?
i.e. select the notes and then press Shift-P and then type "sul pont -> sul tasto"

Here are some of the playing techniques that I often use and that are missing from the Dorico list so far:

all instruments:
Bisbigliando (bisb.) and/or timbre trill (t.tr.) - or you could add timbre trill to the trills section
poco vibrato

winds:
keyclicks
air
aeolian

brass:
fluttergrowl
fluttertongue
air
names of all the mutes in text

strings:
alto sul tasto (a.s.t.)
poco sul tasto (p.s.t.)
molto sul ponticello (m.s.p.)
poco sul ponticello (p.s.p.)
bow the body

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Re: Playing Technique(s)

Post by Daniel at Steinberg » Mon Oct 24, 2016 9:08 am

Thanks for this list: we will do our best to add more playing techniques in the first update.

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Re: Playing Technique(s)

Post by ArnBrem » Wed Nov 02, 2016 8:49 pm

Yesterday on my very first Dorico day I've missed a string technique (violin) too:

sul G (or "G Saite", "G corde", "on G")

Just for the file. The workaround with text input is ok for me as long there is no impact on playback anyway.

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Re: Playing Technique(s)

Post by DBmusic » Fri Dec 09, 2016 3:39 am

Daniel at Steinberg wrote:You want it as text? We have various symbols for harmon mute with the stem half-in/half-out, etc.
Our house style is to request all mutes as text unless its hand stops on horn or special client request, so harmon mute as text would be wonderful, as well as abbreviations and capitalizations for them and an "Open" instruction. I.E. we would put "St. Mute" on trumpets, then "Open" at their next entrance.

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Re: Playing Technique(s)

Post by high5ths » Fri Dec 09, 2016 6:18 am

Much like percussion symbols, mute symbols seem like a great idea but in practice they are extremely likely to be misunderstood and incorrectly applied. Every publisher I've worked for has wanted text for these items.
Jeffrey Grossman
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Re: Playing Technique(s)

Post by mountainmusic » Wed Jan 04, 2017 11:58 pm

mountainmusic wrote:
Daniel at Steinberg wrote:
If there are obvious playing techniques that you think we're missing, best to make sure you tell me what they are, so that I can add them to the default set as soon as possible.
When a playing technique is chosen, one should be able to go to the Properties and select whether we want it to be a symbol or a text; some performers love symbols, other ones ask you for as much text as possible.
And, also important, the "Alternative Text" should have the option of completely changing the text, not just adding text. For example, this way I can select the "sul pont" playing technique but then replace it with my choice of abbreviation or language: s.p., or au chevalet, etc.
Hi Daniel,

Hope you had a great holiday and Happy New Year!

Any chance that an update to Playing Techniques is coming in the next update? I know it is small thing compared to all the work that has to be done in the updates, but it would be very helpful for my composing to have these options.

Thanks!

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Re: Playing Technique(s)

Post by T Earl » Thu Jan 05, 2017 2:03 pm

mountainmusic wrote:
mountainmusic wrote:
Daniel at Steinberg wrote:
If there are obvious playing techniques that you think we're missing, best to make sure you tell me what they are, so that I can add them to the default set as soon as possible.
When a playing technique is chosen, one should be able to go to the Properties and select whether we want it to be a symbol or a text; some performers love symbols, other ones ask you for as much text as possible.
And, also important, the "Alternative Text" should have the option of completely changing the text, not just adding text. For example, this way I can select the "sul pont" playing technique but then replace it with my choice of abbreviation or language: s.p., or au chevalet, etc.
Hi Daniel,

Hope you had a great holiday and Happy New Year!

Any chance that an update to Playing Techniques is coming in the next update? I know it is small thing compared to all the work that has to be done in the updates, but it would be very helpful for my composing to have these options.

Thanks!
I am also keen to know when the slightly reformed playing techniques will be available! Fingers crossed fairly soon!
"Take an object. Do something to it. Do something else to it." - Jasper Johns

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Re: Playing Technique(s)

Post by Daniel at Steinberg » Thu Jan 05, 2017 6:14 pm

I expect we'll at least be able to add text versions of things like harmon mute etc. in the next update, yes.

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Re: Playing Technique(s)

Post by ghess1000 » Sat Jan 14, 2017 7:25 am

Are there shortcuts available or planned for Playing Techniques and the other Create items? Some are quick and obvious like keys and meters, but others like snap pizzicato are more cumbersome. Sorry, if there's a list of them somewhere and I missed it.

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Re: Playing Technique(s)

Post by Daniel at Steinberg » Sat Jan 14, 2017 6:46 pm

The only shortcuts available are the things you can type into the popovers, which are all listed here.

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Re: Playing Technique(s)

Post by thicks » Sun Feb 26, 2017 5:23 am

Not necessarily a playing technique, but it would be nice to have option to label players within a split part. Such as if I'm writing a split in Violin I, I want to be able to put "1." if the line starts with just half the violin I section. Also a "solo" option would be nice and "div." and "a2" and "tutti".

Thanks!

TH

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