[CAN-10904] Major VCA fader bug when saved with VCA all the way down!

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freejay
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[CAN-10904] Major VCA fader bug when saved with VCA all the way down!

Post by freejay » Fri Feb 17, 2017 8:22 pm

If a project is save with a VCA fader all the way down (-endless) on reload the relationship between the VCA and the linked fader is gone and the linked fader moves parallel to the VCA fader! This way you can (will!) loose your valome settings of the linked fader!

Steps to reproduce:

- create a new project
- create an audio track (but track type is not important)
- create a related VCA fader
- pull down the audi track's fader to -15 db
- move the VCA fader all the way up and down: The linked fader works as expected (in this case: moves about half as much as the VCA fader)
- now move the VCA fader all the way down (-endless)
- save the project
- close the project
- open the project again
- move the VCA fader:
>>> The linked fader has lost its relation to the VCA fader and moves parallel to the VCA fader. So when the VCA is at 0 db the linked fader is also at 0 db instead of -15 db as it was prior to saving.

If you use VCA for automating fades (to retaining the easy possibility to change the linked chanels volume any time without fiddling with the automation) you can and will loose your volume settings of the linked faders if you - accidently - save the project while the cursor is in an area where the VCA fader is all the way down.

That's pretty bad...

(tested with Cubase 9.0.10)
Cubase 9.0.10, UR22mkII, Windows 10, Online, Asus Maximus VIII Ranger, Intel i7-6700K, 16 GB Kingston, (currently) onboard graphics, ehm - anything else anyone would like to know?... ;-)

freejay
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Re: Major VCA fader bug when saved with VCA all the way down

Post by freejay » Tue Feb 28, 2017 7:49 pm

After the change of the Issue forum I wonder, how we will ever know, if any moderators even saw a bug report or not. My issue here seems to be not very "popular", but it is a bug and can be very annoying - although it won't happen to many users.

So: How do we know if a bug report was noticed?
Cubase 9.0.10, UR22mkII, Windows 10, Online, Asus Maximus VIII Ranger, Intel i7-6700K, 16 GB Kingston, (currently) onboard graphics, ehm - anything else anyone would like to know?... ;-)

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Re: Major VCA fader bug when saved with VCA all the way down

Post by Neuromancer » Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:27 pm

I have to check but this looks like an issue I'm having in a project!
Nice to see I'm not the only one to use vca faders this way.

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Re: Major VCA fader bug when saved with VCA all the way down

Post by Evertone » Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:54 am

Wow! that is pretty bad! I was able to reproduce this(Cubase 9.0.10). Good thing I hardly use VCA faders to ride automation.

Definitely a bug!
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Re: Major VCA fader bug when saved with VCA all the way down

Post by freejay » Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:50 pm

Thanks for confirming this!
Cubase 9.0.10, UR22mkII, Windows 10, Online, Asus Maximus VIII Ranger, Intel i7-6700K, 16 GB Kingston, (currently) onboard graphics, ehm - anything else anyone would like to know?... ;-)

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Re: Major VCA fader bug when saved with VCA all the way down

Post by djw » Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:32 am

Send this as a support ticket on MySteinberg instead, those are actually looked at.

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Re: Major VCA fader bug when saved with VCA all the way down

Post by freejay » Fri Mar 24, 2017 6:52 pm

Thanks for the hint. I'm doing it right now.
Cubase 9.0.10, UR22mkII, Windows 10, Online, Asus Maximus VIII Ranger, Intel i7-6700K, 16 GB Kingston, (currently) onboard graphics, ehm - anything else anyone would like to know?... ;-)

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Re: Major VCA fader bug when saved with VCA all the way down

Post by jaromematthew » Sun Jun 04, 2017 2:57 am

This also happens in Cubase 8.5 which means it was an old bug that was never fixed in 9. They want you to pay to upgrade but don't fix this kind of major issue? Unbelievable
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Re: Major VCA fader bug when saved with VCA all the way down

Post by da10us » Wed Jul 05, 2017 7:06 pm

Ok, that does it.I bought C8 because of VCA faders. Back then we had the silence issue. Now on latest 8.5 I tried VCA after all those time and guess what? All the original faders full on after loading up the project. The controlling VCA does a fade in at the the start, so perhaps I'm hitting this bug.....

Would be nice to hear of someone who uses VCA succesfully....
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Re: Major VCA fader bug when saved with VCA all the way down!

Post by djw » Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:11 am

Reproduced in 9.0.30, bug still remains.

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Re: Major VCA fader bug when saved with VCA all the way down!

Post by Barry Berk » Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:20 am

I am having the same issue. Fader levels linked to a VCA fader with automation change between closing and reopening projects. I spend 30 minutes getting fader levels back to their original position from screen grabs I do before I close a project. I'm on Cubase 9.03. Steinberg, this needs to be fixed. Again, I might add.

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Re: Major VCA fader bug when saved with VCA all the way down!

Post by djw » Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:18 pm

Barry Berk wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:20 am
I am having the same issue. Fader levels linked to a VCA fader with automation change between closing and reopening projects. I spend 30 minutes getting fader levels back to their original position from screen grabs I do before I close a project. I'm on Cubase 9.03. Steinberg, this needs to be fixed. Again, I might add.
Are you saying they also become wrong even if the VCA fader isn't set to -inf. dB?

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Re: Major VCA fader bug when saved with VCA all the way down!

Post by michael cleary » Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:19 pm

This explains an issue I have been having as well. I thought I was going crazy!

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Re: Major VCA fader bug when saved with VCA all the way down!

Post by djw » Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:33 pm

The VCA automation issue is discussed at the Nuendo 7 forum at the following thread:

viewtopic.php?f=240&p=667669

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Re: Major VCA fader bug when saved with VCA all the way down!

Post by peakae » Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:05 am

Why would that be of any interest, the Nuendo implementation of VCA is different.
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Re: Major VCA fader bug when saved with VCA all the way down!

Post by djw » Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:43 am

peakae wrote:
Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:05 am
Why would that be of any interest, the Nuendo implementation of VCA is different.
I'm not convinced it is. What is the difference?

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Re: Major VCA fader bug when saved with VCA all the way down

Post by djw » Thu Sep 07, 2017 12:02 am

freejay wrote:
Tue Feb 28, 2017 7:49 pm
After the change of the Issue forum I wonder, how we will ever know, if any moderators even saw a bug report or not. My issue here seems to be not very "popular", but it is a bug and can be very annoying - although it won't happen to many users.

So: How do we know if a bug report was noticed?
If it gets a bug tracker ID then you know for sure, like this topic. :) But it doesn't always happen.

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Re: [CAN-10904] Major VCA fader bug when saved with VCA all the way down!

Post by da10us » Fri Sep 08, 2017 6:00 pm

So [CAN-10904] will say Steinberg is aware of this bug?
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Re: [CAN-10904] Major VCA fader bug when saved with VCA all the way down!

Post by djw » Fri Sep 08, 2017 7:26 pm

Yes.

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Re: [CAN-10904] Major VCA fader bug when saved with VCA all the way down!

Post by Barry Berk » Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:55 am

Can someone from Steinberg give any indication as to when this issue will be sorted out? I'm doing final mixes for a record and having fader settings change between closing and opening projects is making the process very difficult.

On the Nuendo thread that deals with the same VCA problem, it was suggested that the associated channels must at least at have initial points. Would this apply to Cubase? And secondly, what might initial points be? I'm not entirely clear. Any help would be appreciated. B

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Re: Major VCA fader bug when saved with VCA all the way down!

Post by Barry Berk » Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:16 am

djw wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:18 pm
Barry Berk wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:20 am
I am having the same issue. Fader levels linked to a VCA fader with automation change between closing and reopening projects. I spend 30 minutes getting fader levels back to their original position from screen grabs I do before I close a project. I'm on Cubase 9.03. Steinberg, this needs to be fixed. Again, I might add.
Are you saying they also become wrong even if the VCA fader isn't set to -inf. dB?
The faders aren't set to inf. dB. There is volume automation on them (if I understand you correctly)

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Re: Major VCA fader bug when saved with VCA all the way down!

Post by djw » Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:03 am

Barry Berk wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:16 am
djw wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:18 pm
Barry Berk wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:20 am
I am having the same issue. Fader levels linked to a VCA fader with automation change between closing and reopening projects. I spend 30 minutes getting fader levels back to their original position from screen grabs I do before I close a project. I'm on Cubase 9.03. Steinberg, this needs to be fixed. Again, I might add.
Are you saying they also become wrong even if the VCA fader isn't set to -inf. dB?
The faders aren't set to inf. dB. There is volume automation on them (if I understand you correctly)
I'll experiment with this. I assume you can't send a demo project because it would already have the wrong values...

EDIT:
I can only get this when the automation set the VCA fader to -inf. dB. Can you let me know your exact steps when this goes wrong?

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Re: [CAN-10904] Major VCA fader bug when saved with VCA all the way down!

Post by Barry Berk » Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:12 am

Hey djw. Sorry for the long delay but I've been finishing a record and today is the last day. Tracks going to mastering this morning. Anyway, the problem with faders shifting has been driving me dilly, especially since it has gotten worse. Most of the projects were retaining their fader levels but recently everytime I open a project the faders have shifted. I've then corrected them by checking them against the screen-grabs I do before closing the project.

So what's happening is the following; I am grouping tracks, say drums, guitars, keys, etc with their own vca fader. So I have a drums vca, a guitar vca, a keys vca etc. I am then using automation on the vca fader to control the volume of all the tracks contained within that vca as opposed to automating each track within the vca fader. The vca faders are therefore never set at -inf. I created what I think are initial points at the beginning of each vca fader automation track. For a while that seemed to work but lately it's just been a nightmare. Just making the smallest change to a track entails 20 minutes of resetting faders to their original positions. And when you and the artist are on a deadline it's massively frustrating.

If you have any info on how I can fix this apart from just not using the vca faders I'd much appreciate it.

Thank you for your response.

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Re: [CAN-10904] Major VCA fader bug when saved with VCA all the way down!

Post by djw » Fri Oct 20, 2017 12:25 pm

Barry Berk wrote:
Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:12 am

If you have any info on how I can fix this apart from just not using the vca faders I'd much appreciate it.

Thank you for your response.
I can't reproduce this myself so I must be missing some steps. Do you at any point enable or disable the tempo track?

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Re: [CAN-10904] Major VCA fader bug when saved with VCA all the way down!

Post by Barry Berk » Wed Oct 25, 2017 4:03 am

No, I don't.

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