Coda indent

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arco
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Coda indent

Post by arco » Wed Mar 15, 2017 6:24 am

I have not needed to venture into frames, but is this what I would use to create an indent for a Coda? Could someone please give me instructions? Thanks.

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Daniel at Steinberg
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Re: Coda indent

Post by Daniel at Steinberg » Wed Mar 15, 2017 10:44 am

For the time being this is indeed what you would need to do. Hopefully in the next update you will be able to indent the left- and right-hand side of each system in Engrave mode without needing to use frames.

For now, what you would need to do is go into Engrave mode and create a new master page based on 'Default' that contains two music frames:

1. In the Master Pages panel, click the + button to create a new master page.
2. In the dialog that appears, be sure to choose 'Default' under 'Based on' and give your new master page a name like 'Coda' or whatever you like, then click OK.
3. Double-click the new 'Coda' page in the list to open the editor and edit it.
4. Notice that there are two pages shown to you now: one is the page that will be used when this master page falls on the left-hand side of a two page spread, and the other is the one that will be used when it's on the right. You should make all of the edits in the following steps to both pages, since the layout of your score can change and in this case you will want your master page to look basically the same whether it falls on the left or the right.
5. Drag up the bottom of the existing music frame on the page to make room for another one below.
6. Add a new music frame by clicking the button in the Frames panel on the left-hand side of the window, then click and drag into the page. Position the new frame below the existing one, and indent its left-hand side away from the page margin.
7. Select the new frame: the little menus at the top left corner of the frame will show something like 'MH'. M means that this frame lives on the master page, and H identifies the frame (it's essentially an index, so H = 8). Click the 'MH' drop-down to show the 'Frame chain' popover, and in there, tick the 'MA' box instead of 'MH'. This will make your new music frame automatically continue the music from the first music frame on the page, by putting them in the same chain together.
8. Do make sure you perform these steps on the right-hand page as well as the left-hand one in the editor!
9. When you're done, click Close Master Page editor.
10. Now select the page on which the coda system should appear in the Pages panel on the right-hand side, right-click and choose Apply Master Page. In the dialog that appears, choose your 'Coda' master page, and set it to be used for this page only, rather than for this and all subsequent pages. Click OK.

Now you should find that you have two music frames on the page, and that the music flows from one into the other, before continuing on to the next page (if one is needed to accommodate the rest of the music). You can now adjust the positions of the two frames and the system breaks etc. to make sure your coda system starts in the right place.

arco
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Re: Coda indent

Post by arco » Wed Mar 15, 2017 10:50 am

That's a nice involved workaround :)
Just wondering if I could make an empty frame graphic. Would the underlying frame then move out of the way for its placement. I suppose not.

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Daniel at Steinberg
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Re: Coda indent

Post by Daniel at Steinberg » Wed Mar 15, 2017 10:58 am

No, the way I have described is the best way. It took me a lot longer to type out than it will take you to do it, as you will see when you try it.

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Re: Coda indent

Post by arco » Thu Mar 16, 2017 9:14 am

I tried your suggestion but it did not work, then trying anything to get it working, I clicked on the arrows to "swap to next page' and it worked doing this. In preparing the frames, I did the same to both sides so not sure why swapping them over activated it. Any thoughts as to why I had to do this?

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Daniel at Steinberg
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Re: Coda indent

Post by Daniel at Steinberg » Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:02 am

No, I'm afraid not, but I would be happy to look at your project for you if you want to zip it up and attach it here.

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Re: Coda indent

Post by arco » Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:16 am

Thanks for the offer, for now I am not very worried about this (and it is not my composition). I will run a test piece a sometime soon and see what happens and perhaps send it to you so I know what I should be doing.
Thanks for your help, Daniel.

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Re: Coda indent

Post by musicmaven » Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:10 am

Dear arco,

For what its worth, I tried to duplicate Daniel's instructions for indenting a coda section and it worked perfectly. I hope you have success with this perhaps, as you say, with a test project. (And I will admit, as Daniel eluded to, that it was a lot quicker and less painful to actually do than to explain).

While doing this little exercise, I was able to experiment a little with changing the ordering of the frames to wrap my head around this concept. Because more than one frame is on the same page, you can decide which order the music is flowed into the frames, which gives total flexibility.

At some point, IMO, it would be great if Dorico could have certain template type structures "out of the box" that would enable the user to, for instance, simply select a "coda" page for a coda section, or a "footnotes" page, "verbose instructions" page, etc. as a starting point, ready to be adjusted. Or perhaps other Dorico users could share their page structure layouts. It would save time and could, of course, be tweaked by the user for each occasion. At the same time, I see the power of doing these steps manually so as to get the grips on how this powerful program works!

*** At the risk of sounding like a 'fanboy', the more I work in Dorico, the more I see a beauty in its simplicity paralleled with a strength of its depth and reach, all flavored with enticing "things yet to come".
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arco
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Re: Coda indent

Post by arco » Tue Mar 21, 2017 6:10 am

Thanks musicmaven for your comments. I tried it on an older version of the same piece and it worked as expected. I had some problems (bugs?) with the score just before I tried the Coda frame so maybe it had corrupted just a little, but I have had no other problems so have decided to continue with this version as it gets finished.

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Re: Coda indent

Post by Romanos401 » Wed Apr 05, 2017 3:27 am

The other work around that I discovered (prior to finding this thread) is to put your coda into a second flow. Add a second music frame to your last page and direct it to flow 2. If you have your first lines of music set to indent by a few spaces (I had mine at 5 spaces) the music will be indented since it is a second flow and dorico sees it as "new music". (Layout options > Staves and systems > Indent first system of flow by ____)

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Re: Coda indent

Post by arco » Fri Jan 26, 2018 6:25 am

Are these still the recommended techniques for this using v1.2? I could not find anything specific in the current manual.
Thank you.

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Re: Coda indent

Post by vilnai » Fri Jan 26, 2018 5:02 pm

You can now use the note spacing tool in engrave mode. Select the top left-hand handle and alt+arrow to move it to your heart's content.
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Re: Coda indent

Post by Goingswimmingly » Sun Sep 23, 2018 12:40 pm

Hi, I'm trying to create a coda indent and have tried working through Daniel's instructions but get stuck at the '5. Drag up the bottom of the existing music frame on the page to make room for another one below.
6. Add a new music frame by clicking the button in the Frames panel on the left-hand side of the window, then click and drag into the page. Position the new frame below the existing one, and indent its left-hand side away from the page margin.
I can't drag anything! I've seen Vilnai's screenshot and tried alt + arrow but the staff moves up and down and not left to right! Many thanks

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Re: Coda indent

Post by pianoleo » Sun Sep 23, 2018 1:00 pm

Are you definitely using the Note Spacing tool, not the Staff Spacing tool? It really is the Note Spacing tool you need here.

Oh, and to tweak frames you need to ensure that the Frames switch is turned on.
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Re: Coda indent

Post by VIPStephan » Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:27 pm

Goingswimmingly wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 12:40 pm
Hi, I'm trying to create a coda indent and have tried working through Daniel's instructions […]
Daniel’s instructions are outdated and obsolete in Dorico 2. You don’t need to work with frames anymore in order to create indented systems. Just switch on the note spacing in Engrave mode (in the left panel at the bottom) and move the big system handle left (or right), as shown in vilnai’s post.

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Daniel at Steinberg
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Re: Coda indent

Post by Daniel at Steinberg » Mon Sep 24, 2018 4:33 pm

You would still need to use another frame if you wanted there to be a gap before a coda starting on the same system as existing music, but provided the coda starts at the start of a system it can indeed all be done with the note spacing tools in Engrave mode.

In the next big update, which adds proper support for these kinds of things, the gap will be added automatically in the right place simply by virtue of adding the coda marker itself.

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Re: Coda indent

Post by Romanos401 » Mon Sep 24, 2018 5:55 pm

How exciting! I love these little glimpses of the future.

I've recently taken over as the "Director of Sacred Music" (full-time position) for a Catholic church and I use Dorico at least an hour every single day; typically much more. I transcribe, compose, create new editions of public domain works, etc. so this is terribly exciting. I know we have a while to wait, but I often read posts which do not pertain to me at all just to find these little snippets. :)

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Re: Coda indent

Post by hamhm3 » Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:33 pm

Daniel at Steinberg wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 4:33 pm
In the next big update, which adds proper support for these kinds of things, the gap will be added automatically in the right place simply by virtue of adding the coda marker itself.
That is so cool, and a perfect example of the intelligence and elegance with which the Dorico design team add new features. I love the way you guys think and conceptualize Dorico's features; it's truly extraordinary compared to the competition. You have a great team to be proud of, Daniel.
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