Saving Projects with Files/Plugins for recall

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jed dexter
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Saving Projects with Files/Plugins for recall

Post by jed dexter » Fri Aug 11, 2017 3:54 pm

Hi

I'm new to W9 though used Cubase for many years.
I'm trying to work on individual tracks by saving as a project for each.
Then once completed I'm going to compile them into an audio montage.

What I am finding though is as I work on a new track (project) if I go back to an earlier project I've lost all the plugin settings in the master section.
So I will open Project #1 and find I have the plugins still loaded from Project #2.

Is this correct?
I can see in the manual I can save Master Section settings as a preset.
But don't really want to do this as it is not a preset, it's a project setting.

Can anyone advise if I am going about this the right way?
I'd love to be brilliant and get everything spot on during the session/day that I am working on it.
But I'm not and I need to go back to these projects and tweak, especially when I want to revisit with fresh ears or go listen in the car etc.
Apologies if I'm missing something really simple here, but I'm used to saving projects like in Cubase and having all files, plugins etc available for recall.
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Re: Saving Projects with Files/Plugins for recall

Post by Justin P » Fri Aug 11, 2017 4:52 pm

I'm not an expert on it because I never use the global master section, but you can save the master section settings (including plugins) with both audio files and montage files to be recalled later.

I'm away from my main computer at the moment so I can't really show you but it is indeed possible.

Down in the lower right corner you may see some icons for saving/loading the master section settings. Shortcuts can also be used.
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Re: Saving Projects with Files/Plugins for recall

Post by jed dexter » Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:55 pm

OK thanks.
Found at the bottom right of the Wave file section there is a Star "Save Master Section Preset", think this is what you mean?

Greyed out is "The preset will be saved in inside the wave's companion file"

Looks like this is it - there's additional tick boxes 'Save effect plugins, Resampling, Master level, Final Effects/Dithering, Save Playback"
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Re: Saving Projects with Files/Plugins for recall

Post by jed dexter » Fri Aug 11, 2017 6:09 pm

on further inspection the preset is saved in a companion file on C: drive:

"...AppData\Local\Steinberg\WaveLab Pro 9\cache"

Looking through the folders they are full of these .vs data files.

Ok so I think I could take a copy of the file I need and save in my project folders. I could change the file location but don't want all those .vs files clogging up the project folders.
S/W: Win 10 64Bit Pro, Cubase Pro 9.5 64bit, Wavelab 9.0, Halion Sonic 3, HSO, The Grand 3.
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Re: Saving Projects with Files/Plugins for recall

Post by Aivaras » Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:19 pm

jed dexter wrote:
Fri Aug 11, 2017 3:54 pm
I'm new to W9 though used Cubase for many years.
I'm trying to work on individual tracks by saving as a project for each.
Then once completed I'm going to compile them into an audio montage.
Perhaps a better workflow would be to start out with an audio montage from the very beginning?

You can apply to each clip its own effect chain, all this in a non-distructive way (which cannot be done in the wave editor).

The signal flow is as follows: clip effects > track effects > montage output effects > master section effects > master section final effects.

As you can see, effects wise a lot (and in many cases everything), can be accomplished and saved prior to the master section.

I use master section effects only in the final stage of a production when resampling, limiting, and dithering.
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Re: Saving Projects with Files/Plugins for recall

Post by Rat » Tue Aug 15, 2017 1:08 am

We all work differently, but I think it looks like I use the master section preset function like you.

When loading up a new project, I also go to the top of the master section ... there is a dialogue there "organize presets". I create a folder with the same name as the project. I have a standard "digital console" preset with three or four plugs in it and load this. I then save that as "start adjust" or the song or, usually "EQ_(date)".

This takes almost no time and is a worthwhile investment in organization and efficiency.

You may need a different setting for a specific song so it's easy then to have all the master settings in the one place.

You can then create the montages and load the relevant preset for the render.

In my project template there is a folder called "settings" (an old habit learned from post production). I copy the "preset" folder with the project name into this as a "backup". Then, when you archive the project, the master section settings are archived along with it.

Hope this helps.

Paul
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Paul

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Re: Saving Projects with Files/Plugins for recall

Post by Aivaras » Tue Aug 15, 2017 1:57 am

Saving the master section settings with the project would be a logical step to take.

Here's what the manual says: "You can save your complete production as a project and open it on any WaveLab Pro workstation."

The project, being a (more or less) global collection of WL's settings, is a good place to store the master section settings.

A complete production is in fact not saved as as a complete production if the resultant project file does not contain master section settings which are part of that production.
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Re: Saving Projects with Files/Plugins for recall

Post by Justin P » Tue Aug 15, 2017 4:03 am

I've always had an issue with the way the global master section operates. Because of this, I've made a workflow using the Audio Montage mode that saves all plugin settings in the montage session file, the way any other DAW would work.

If you can use a montage and not use the global master section, you might find everything easier.

There are a few plugins that are only available in the global master section unfortunately, but not many. I've found a way to avoid it all together.
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Re: Saving Projects with Files/Plugins for recall

Post by PG » Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:09 am

"Project" in WaveLab and Cubase are two different things.
In WaveLab, this is simply a set of references to audio assets, and a tab layout.
But yes, saving the master section settings with a project is something to consider for the future.
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Re: Saving Projects with Files/Plugins for recall

Post by Rat » Tue Aug 15, 2017 9:06 am

PG wrote:
Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:09 am
But yes, saving the master section settings with a project is something to consider for the future.
I would still like to be able to save the master section settings the way it works now ... where I have the option of saving to a folder created for the purpose. One reason being that it adds to the integrity of the back up/archive.
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Re: Saving Projects with Files/Plugins for recall

Post by Aivaras » Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:03 pm

PG wrote:
Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:09 am
But yes, saving the master section settings with a project is something to consider for the future.
Great to hear this!
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Re: Saving Projects with Files/Plugins for recall

Post by kapverden » Fri Jun 22, 2018 5:03 pm

PG wrote:
Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:09 am
But yes, saving the master section settings with a project is something to consider for the future.
Hi Philippe,

are you still considering this?
I think the option to save the master section presets
A) with the project
B) as preset files not related to any specific Audio File
would be really handy.

I just lost a Master Section preset saved into a WAV file, because i renamed it in the macOS Finder.
I was not aware i was doing something i shouldn't do :)

Thanks!
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Re: Saving Projects with Files/Plugins for recall

Post by kapverden » Fri Jun 22, 2018 5:47 pm

Or - as an alternative - the ability to import plugin chains from Montage Output FX, Track FX, Clip FX to the Master Section.
That would be even better!

Possible?

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Re: Saving Projects with Files/Plugins for recall

Post by PG » Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:02 pm

Since you speak about montage and Master Section, why don't you save the Master Section preset inside the montage. This allows you to import it back to the Master Section whenever needed.
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Re: Saving Projects with Files/Plugins for recall

Post by kapverden » Sat Jun 23, 2018 2:42 pm

this might sound a bit complicated, but one method would be to have 1 montage to pitch the various tracks through the analog chain.
so i would have 1 montage, but different master section settings for each track. so in this case i can not save the master section to the montage.
i would need to have 1 montage per track, but that gets messy quickly.
i'm trying to find a good workflow, hence my questions.
Thanks.

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Re: Saving Projects with Files/Plugins for recall

Post by Justin P » Sat Jun 23, 2018 3:52 pm

kapverden wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 2:42 pm
this might sound a bit complicated, but one method would be to have 1 montage to pitch the various tracks through the analog chain.
so i would have 1 montage, but different master section settings for each track. so in this case i can not save the master section to the montage.
i would need to have 1 montage per track, but that gets messy quickly.
i'm trying to find a good workflow, hence my questions.
Thanks.
In your pitch montage, couldn’t you just use the Clip Effects section for the “per song” plugin settings?
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Re: Saving Projects with Files/Plugins for recall

Post by kapverden » Sat Jun 23, 2018 5:26 pm

[/quote]
In your pitch montage, couldn’t you just use the Clip Effects section for the “per song” plugin settings?
[/quote]

Correct, i could, on the other hand i reserve clip fx for certain parts only.
Then, one could say, use Track FX per song.
But i do also change limiter and post analog settings, and this has to be in the master section.
And i master one song in one go, so i want to hear what the limiter all the time.
And i change limiter settings per song since i dont use the set and forget L2.

One thing which i found out in the meantime is that if in Preferences/Audio Files/Editing i choose "Save View Settings in Companion File" and deselect "Save in an independent Folder", a companion file is created and apparently also the master section preset goes with that file?
but i can now change the file name of the Audio File in the macOS Finder and change also the name of the companion file, and now still am able to load master section presets from the audio file with the changed name.
i don't quite understand why but this helps a lot. at least i feel a bit more secure regarding master section presets.

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Re: Saving Projects with Files/Plugins for recall

Post by Justin P » Sat Jun 23, 2018 5:34 pm

I see. I have a million ideas about how to make the play/capture process better in WaveLab which is why I’m currently doing it in REAPER abandon just using WaveLab for final sequencing stuff and projects that are all in the box of course.

Maybe someday this area of WaveLab will be improved.
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Re: Saving Projects with Files/Plugins for recall

Post by kapverden » Sat Jun 23, 2018 5:46 pm

I'm also working with Reaper, but i still would prefer to work completely in WL.
Or pitch from Reaper and record in WL. Since i do all the compiling in WL.
I found a workaround regarding 'recording post external chain' but without the limiter while still being able to listen to the limited thing.
So basically the more or less last thing that bothers me now is the Preset handling, since it is not that transparent.
At least psychologically.
Coolest and easiest and most handy would be the interchangeability of plugin chains between Master Section and Clip, Track, Montage Output Effects.
Which is there already but one way only! Both ways would be cool.

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Re: Saving Projects with Files/Plugins for recall

Post by Justin P » Sat Jun 23, 2018 6:49 pm

Yes, it seems like there isn’t a perfect solution and no matter your workflow, there is a significant compromise whether you realize it or not.
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Re: Saving Projects with Files/Plugins for recall

Post by bob99 » Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:16 am

kapverden wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 5:46 pm
Coolest and easiest and most handy would be the interchangeability of plugin chains between Master Section and Clip, Track, Montage Output Effects.
Which is there already but one way only! Both ways would be cool.
Kapverden, I just wondered how you would use this. I was surprised that the Master Section chains were not included when the ability to copy and paste chains happened between the montage effects sections, so agree that it would be nice to be able to do that to and from the Master Section, like in Reaper. But I just wonder how you would use it. Would you have the limiter in the Master Section during mastering of each clip, then import the limiter to one of the montage effects sections just to save the limiter with settings for that particular clip/track? So you could then send it back to the Master Section the next time you opened the montage?

Would having the external gear plugin, or simply hardware routing accessible in Clips and Tracks eliminate the need for that? That's been requested and seems to me a more flexible way to do it, as in the other programs.

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Re: Saving Projects with Files/Plugins for recall

Post by kapverden » Fri Jun 29, 2018 6:23 pm

bob99 wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:16 am
But I just wonder how you would use it. Would you have the limiter in the Master Section during mastering of each clip, then import the limiter to one of the montage effects sections just to save the limiter with settings for that particular clip/track? So you could then send it back to the Master Section the next time you opened the montage?

Would having the external gear plugin, or simply hardware routing accessible in Clips and Tracks eliminate the need for that? That's been requested and seems to me a more flexible way to do it, as in the other programs.
Hi Bob,
i don't see the need for the external plugin to be accessible in Clips. I also cannot imagine that would be easy to implement, and it would lead to quite some confusion, at least it would confuse ME . Hah.

My reasoning is only for recall.
I use a montage w/ all unmastered tracks, i work on each track via the master section, at times using plugins pre analog, always using the limiter post analog. Sometimes also some other plugins like a Deesser or something.
I record these tracks pre Limiter, sometimes i also pre Deesser and Limiter, it depends.
Then i have a 2nd Montage with all the mastered Tracks. Currently i store all Master Sections chains to the "mastered Clips", but have only the FX active which are not recorded yet. If i need to do a complete recall incl. the analog chain i would like to copy the whole Mastering Section preset back to the Master Section, and be able to redo everything. Sorry if all this sounds complicated, its very primitive in fact.

So basically the option to copy FX chains also from Clips and Tracks to the Master Section would be fantastic.
I use it when i work in Reaper and its actually really handy.

Thx
Kapverden

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