Mapping a VST plugin ridiculousness

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mbira
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Mapping a VST plugin ridiculousness

Post by mbira » Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:54 am

I have a VST plugin and I have been spending days (weeks? Months?) simply trying to map a single button within the VST to a midi controller.

I had to give up on mapping a computer keyboard button to the VST because Cubase can't do that even though it is the simplest thing to do in Ableton.

Now I'm trying to do the trivial job of mapping the button to a midi controller.

The VST is an insert in my master Stereo Output. I have the button mapped to a "quick control" on the track itself but I am not able to toggle the button unless I have a focus on the track in the track inspector.

Is there a way to make a midi controller always control a button on the VST insert regardless of what track I am focused on? This is literally a job that takes 2 seconds in Ableton. Such a shame. Will a "generic remote" achieve this? All I'm trying to do is set up a dang button in Metagrid to be able to toggle between my reference track VST and my regular output.
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Re: Mapping a VST plugin ridiculousness

Post by mbira » Tue Sep 19, 2017 7:04 am

Whew! I finally got it! I will post in case others come along wanting to do the same thing. I tried a few different methods: 1) Mapping the button to a "quick control" in the inspector and then in Device Setup I mapped my controller to the "Track Quick Controls". This had an issue where I had to have focus on the track in order for the button to work. I then did a "generic remote" and mapped the quick control and that worked, but then I realized that I could map directly to the VST within the Generic Remote->Value Action and then choosing the plugin and finding the parameter there. I was concerned that it may require the plugin to stay in an exclusive insert slot since the insert slot was numbered, but it does allow me to move the VST to different inserts and the mapping doesn't break. It also works regardless of focus. Yea! Finally! Cubase really needs to improve the way it handles mapping though-what a convoluted system!
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Re: Mapping a VST plugin ridiculousness

Post by peakae » Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:05 am

Agree, once you have start fighting it, it gets easier.
But it's really not that intuitive.
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Re: Mapping a VST plugin ridiculousness

Post by digitalson » Wed Sep 20, 2017 6:11 am

wow i did not know that...so you can control a plugin no matter what slot its in? but if its on a different track does that matter? and what if theres 2 of the same?
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Re: Mapping a VST plugin ridiculousness

Post by mbira » Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:15 am

digitalson wrote:
Wed Sep 20, 2017 6:11 am
wow i did not know that...so you can control a plugin no matter what slot its in? but if its on a different track does that matter? and what if theres 2 of the same?
Well I spoke too soon. In my case as soon as I closed the project and reopened it, the mapping was disconnected so it didn't seem to like changing insert slots. That's ok and not the end of the world since for this specific need, the plugin I am wanting to control can always live in the same place in my template.
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Re: Mapping a VST plugin ridiculousness

Post by LarsErik » Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:01 am

I like the VST Quick Control for plug-in synths. Now this a somewhat different approach, you can map everything in pages and then you can use 4, 8, 12 or 24 for each page. Kind of like the track quick controls but you can lock focus to a specific plug-in.

I use my Maschine (Mk2) controller in midi mode so I have 8 knobs that are sending midi cc14 to cc21 on channel 16. Since I use the midi controller for other stuff as well I've setup a global midi filter to ignore everything on channel 16.

It's not designed for "total" control of a plug-in, you only have one page of controls (in my case 8 parameters) active at once. So if you map every parameter you can, you have to switch between the pages to be able to control them.

I've never really liked recording midi CC parameters into my midi tracks, and this makes it into automation lanes.

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Re: Mapping a VST plugin ridiculousness

Post by digitalson » Thu Sep 21, 2017 4:30 pm

Man I need the nuage control
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Re: Mapping a VST plugin ridiculousness

Post by mbira » Thu Sep 21, 2017 6:15 pm

digitalson wrote:
Thu Sep 21, 2017 4:30 pm
Man I need the nuage control
Yeah, but $30K+ for nothing but a controller is stupid. If I have money like that, I'm getting something like a used API sidecar.
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Re: Mapping a VST plugin ridiculousness

Post by peakae » Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:46 pm

If we just could assign 8 AI knobs or even better 16.
Even if they were not saved, an AI knob is so useful but 8 would be awesome.
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Re: Mapping a VST plugin ridiculousness

Post by digitalson » Fri Sep 22, 2017 7:19 am

Hey does that remote control editor Page save presets,say you map a vst plug then can you call up the preset? Also can you map midi cc to control it? I've seen this but never used it.....ya know I could add this to my amazing lemur project...only if it can be recalled
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Re: Mapping a VST plugin ridiculousness

Post by digitalson » Fri Sep 22, 2017 7:27 am

So it writes automation on the track the plugin is on as lanes? Not a midi cc lane?...wow I gotta check this out ....too bab I can't get the names to show up via the lemur project ...but I wonder if my mackie control would see it? ...it does see all the parameters of plugins now ,but I like how you can map only what you want to see....
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Re: Mapping a VST plugin ridiculousness

Post by digitalson » Fri Sep 22, 2017 4:31 pm

I did some research last night about this and i found out there are 2 unused buttons on the mackie control that can be used to control this ....I must experiment today!!
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Re: Mapping a VST plugin ridiculousness

Post by digitalson » Fri Sep 22, 2017 4:32 pm

I wish I could use the c4 for this with banking
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Re: Mapping a VST plugin ridiculousness

Post by mbira » Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:25 pm

My understanding is the Remote Control Editor is ONLY usable with those few specific controllers and is not mappable with a regular MIDI controller. The "Generic Remote" (or as you mentioned the "VST Quick Controls") is the thing that can map midi controllers. It's confusing because the "Remote Control Editor" looks like it is mapping, but it is some internal proticol and is not sending or receiving MIDI. Am I wrong?
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Re: Mapping a VST plugin ridiculousness

Post by Raphie » Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:35 pm

Yes, this topic might help viewtopic.php?f=226&t=102993
It took a while before the coin dropped for me as well.
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Re: Mapping a VST plugin ridiculousness

Post by LarsErik » Fri Sep 22, 2017 7:29 pm

mbira wrote:
Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:25 pm
My understanding is the Remote Control Editor is ONLY usable with those few specific controllers and is not mappable with a regular MIDI controller. The "Generic Remote" (or as you mentioned the "VST Quick Controls") is the thing that can map midi controllers. It's confusing because the "Remote Control Editor" looks like it is mapping, but it is some internal proticol and is not sending or receiving MIDI. Am I wrong?
Works with any regular midi controller. It's a bridge from midi cc to some internal control messages so you won't end up recording midi cc into your midi tracks. I've set it up to go both ways so my maschine mk2 (in midi mode) sends and gets the values.

A real work horse for parameter automation of plug-in synths.
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Re: Mapping a VST plugin ridiculousness

Post by digitalson » Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:41 pm

Ok si I was messing with it and cool!! I can rename parameters from the default names and reorder wherever I want,and it saves with the plugin....and shows up that way on the mackie controller....but how can I use a different midi device to control it ,say my Maudie axiom keyboard? Or my lemur template?
i7 ,64gb 1866 mem x79 chipset, ssd os,4 x ssd drives raid 0 motu pci 96 ins and outs @96k for external gear
tons of vintage outboard gear 3 monitors and 42" LCD for spotting to film
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Gtx 780 ,all liquid cooled CPU overclocked to 4 ghz

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Re: Mapping a VST plugin ridiculousness

Post by digitalson » Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:42 pm

LarsErik wrote:
Fri Sep 22, 2017 7:29 pm
mbira wrote:
Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:25 pm
My understanding is the Remote Control Editor is ONLY usable with those few specific controllers and is not mappable with a regular MIDI controller. The "Generic Remote" (or as you mentioned the "VST Quick Controls") is the thing that can map midi controllers. It's confusing because the "Remote Control Editor" looks like it is mapping, but it is some internal proticol and is not sending or receiving MIDI. Am I wrong?
Works with any regular midi controller. It's a bridge from midi cc to some internal control messages so you won't end up recording midi cc into your midi tracks. I've set it up to go both ways so my maschine mk2 (in midi mode) sends and gets the values.

A real work horse for parameter automation of plug-in synths.
But where do you assign what midi ports to use for it?
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Re: Mapping a VST plugin ridiculousness

Post by LarsErik » Sat Sep 23, 2017 2:07 am

Devices > Device Setup. In the Devices list, select VST Quick Controls.

Controller, port and midi cc are all set up there.
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Re: Mapping a VST plugin ridiculousness

Post by Stephen57 » Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:26 pm

mbira wrote:
Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:54 am
Will a "generic remote" achieve this? All I'm trying to do is set up a dang button in Metagrid to be able to toggle between my reference track VST and my regular output.
First, I feel your pain and went through this with my own Controller, the Akai Advance 49 (basic controller with 8 rotary controls, 8 switches, 8 MPC-style pads and a few other keys that send MIDI CC). I think the Metagrid system is excellent, likely one of the best out there for automating Cubase. I'll move to it myself at some point, I think.

Generic Remote should work for you but it will take time to set it up. With Metagrid you get the Master XML file and it contains, I believe, every function that can be automated in Cubase? Of course, that does not include any of your own presents for MLE and so on. One of the things that confused me most was making sure I had applied my updates as I was building my Generic Remote banks. I'd end up chasing my tail like a crazy cat. It still happens sometimes. I wish there was a better system for all this, but what is there does work. The thread Raphie mentioned is also in my signature and it contains tons of good posts about how to make this work. Yes, it is a royal pain and will take time, but, once the coin drops, as Raphie put it, you'll be fine. Keep pecking at it and the shell will break open. Good luck.
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Re: Mapping a VST plugin ridiculousness

Post by digitalson » Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:03 pm

Yes mbira is right it's only for external controllers that support I guess vst parameters like the mackie control,which is cool now I can rename and assign parameters to wherever I want them to be.but no other midi control can use it ,and it does make sense cause its plugin dependent,so if you have 2 of the same running it won't know which one to control...I wonder though if mackie c4 with commander software can work with this? Even though c4 is not supported.i would love 32 parameters at once to use,and on eBay they are cheap now
i7 ,64gb 1866 mem x79 chipset, ssd os,4 x ssd drives raid 0 motu pci 96 ins and outs @96k for external gear
tons of vintage outboard gear 3 monitors and 42" LCD for spotting to film
Windows 7 pro 64 sp1
Gtx 780 ,all liquid cooled CPU overclocked to 4 ghz

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