Staccato articulation is retained [bug??]

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musicmaven
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Staccato articulation is retained [bug??]

Post by musicmaven »

I am having trouble disabling staccato articulations. When using chord input using staccatos Dorico retains the staccato articulation even when switching it off. In the attached pictures, 1) shows the first chord entered with staccato (correct result), then 2) is what happens after switching off staccato then entering the 2nd chord, I get the staccato articulation (incorrect result), then 3) shows after hitting the escape key (to get out of note entry mode) that the staccato dot status icon is now showing it's enabled state again. What is going on? Is this a bug? Can anyone else try this and let me know?
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1) 1st chord with staccato.png
(30.13 KiB) Not downloaded yet
2) 2nd chord after turning off staccato.png
(30.63 KiB) Not downloaded yet
3) 2nd chord after hitting escape key.png
(30.36 KiB) Not downloaded yet
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MarcLarcher
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Re: Staccato articulation is retained [bug??]

Post by MarcLarcher »

When I try to follow your steps, I do not have the same behavior.
I input a chord with my laptop keyboard, engaging q, then staccato, then both notes. I press space, the caret moves forward. I hit 2 (to disengage staccato) and enter my next chord (correct) and escape to quit input note mode… I do not understand why yours do not behave the same.
Be careful to disengage staccato before inputing any note of the next chord, or the staccato will apply for the note inputed before disengaging… Then you will have to select the chord (clicking on the stem), and probably hit the 2 key twice (first time Dorico will apply staccato to all the notes of the chord, especially those inputed after disengaging staccato, then it will unapply staccato to all the notes of the chord)
Hope it helps…
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Opera singer (lyric tenor), photographer, sound engineer, XeLaTeX user and music engraver (Dorico Pro 3.5.10, and Photoscore Ultimate 2020.1.14(9.0.2))
French is my native language

musicmaven
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Re: Staccato articulation is retained [bug??]

Post by musicmaven »

Thanks Marc for trying this out. Here is a short movie showing what happens to me:

I enter first chord with staccato, press space, turn off staccato (using the shortcut "]" key), enter 2nd chord ( I get a staccato where I don't want one ), then I hit escape key and the staccato status is showing on again (even though I turned it off before entering the 2nd chord).

https://www.dropbox.com/s/mv42waf5d0dea ... e.mov?dl=0
Last edited by musicmaven on Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Dorico Pro 3.5.10.1045, NotePerformer 3.3.1, Notation Express XL, Finale 1.0 through Finale 97, Sibelius 2-7.5, Notion 5.2, Composer's Mosaic, MuseScore 2, Digital Performer 5, iMac, MacBook Air, Oxygen 61, OS X High Sierra 10.13.6

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Re: Staccato articulation is retained [bug??]

Post by MarcLarcher »

This is really weird… You might need to send the file or a minimum file that exhibits the bug, for the Devs to have look at it. On my computer, it really does not behave like that.
Marc Larcher

OS X 10.15.6, macbook pro 2019 16" (8 cores i9 @ 2.3GHz, 32GB, 1TB)
Opera singer (lyric tenor), photographer, sound engineer, XeLaTeX user and music engraver (Dorico Pro 3.5.10, and Photoscore Ultimate 2020.1.14(9.0.2))
French is my native language

musicmaven
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Re: Staccato articulation is retained [bug??]

Post by musicmaven »

The weird thing is that this has happened to me on several different projects, but some new projects are fine (and don't exhibit the problem), while other times the problem happens in some bars and not other bars in the same project! :o

[EDIT] Additional observations - this happens with all articulations using mouse input or keyboard input. The display of the articulation (enabled or disabled) is not consistent, nor am I able to toggle the articulation off, i.e. it remains enabled. In essence, I have no control over what articulations get placed, they get populated and remain in effect once I use one, like an old friend that over stays his welcome!
Dorico Pro 3.5.10.1045, NotePerformer 3.3.1, Notation Express XL, Finale 1.0 through Finale 97, Sibelius 2-7.5, Notion 5.2, Composer's Mosaic, MuseScore 2, Digital Performer 5, iMac, MacBook Air, Oxygen 61, OS X High Sierra 10.13.6

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Re: Staccato articulation is retained [bug??]

Post by musicmaven »

If I am the only one experiencing this problem, how do I fix my copy of Dorico so that it works correctly? Could anyone else check on this? I think the movie clearly shows the issue. Any responses would be appreciated, either from the Dorico team or the community.

Thanks.
Dorico Pro 3.5.10.1045, NotePerformer 3.3.1, Notation Express XL, Finale 1.0 through Finale 97, Sibelius 2-7.5, Notion 5.2, Composer's Mosaic, MuseScore 2, Digital Performer 5, iMac, MacBook Air, Oxygen 61, OS X High Sierra 10.13.6

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Re: Staccato articulation is retained [bug??]

Post by HeiPet »

I can't reproduce your behaviour either. Works für me as expceted.

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Re: Staccato articulation is retained [bug??]

Post by musicmaven »

HeiPet, are you on Mac or Windows? I am on Mac.
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Re: Staccato articulation is retained [bug??]

Post by HeiPet »

I'm on WIN 10.

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Re: Staccato articulation is retained [bug??]

Post by musicmaven »

Did you try it on alto sax, or clarinet? I'll post another video. Look at how odd this is!!!!


https://www.dropbox.com/s/499oiylrr9ygj ... m.mov?dl=0
Dorico Pro 3.5.10.1045, NotePerformer 3.3.1, Notation Express XL, Finale 1.0 through Finale 97, Sibelius 2-7.5, Notion 5.2, Composer's Mosaic, MuseScore 2, Digital Performer 5, iMac, MacBook Air, Oxygen 61, OS X High Sierra 10.13.6

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Re: Staccato articulation is retained [bug??]

Post by musicmaven »

So I may have an answer. (Maybe). I tried again but instead of inputting into an alto sax player (Solo Player), I went to Setup and added a Section Player and the section player had correct behavior. WOW - I would have never thought this would be required. I mean it makes sense that one would need a section to have multiple notes sounding (chords), but I wouldn't think trying to input chords in a solo player staff would give unexpected articulations. There must be some deep code going on there unless my copy of Dorico is really messed up.
Dorico Pro 3.5.10.1045, NotePerformer 3.3.1, Notation Express XL, Finale 1.0 through Finale 97, Sibelius 2-7.5, Notion 5.2, Composer's Mosaic, MuseScore 2, Digital Performer 5, iMac, MacBook Air, Oxygen 61, OS X High Sierra 10.13.6

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Re: Staccato articulation is retained [bug??]

Post by samreed »

musicmaven wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:31 pm
If I am the only one experiencing this problem, how do I fix my copy of Dorico so that it works correctly? Could anyone else check on this? I think the movie clearly shows the issue. Any responses would be appreciated, either from the Dorico team or the community.

Thanks.
You aren't the only one experiencing this! I just started noticing this the last two nights. But unfortunately I have not found a solution. In certain files but not all, no matter what I try, chord input via computer keyboard produces unwanted articulations (accent and staccato) ... and unless I'm going crazy, sometimes the unwanted articulations are mysteriously reinstated after I remove them, necessitating that I remove them more than once (similar to what happens when already removed rests sometimes have to be removed again after a redraw).

In case it's platform specific, I'm on a mac too. Just wanted you to know you're not alone! If I ever find a solution, I will post here.

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Re: Staccato articulation is retained [bug??]

Post by samreed »

Hi musicmaven,

I've only had a chance to use version 1.2 twice since installing, but so far this problem seems to have disappeared. Does it persist for you after upgrading?

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Daniel at Steinberg
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Re: Staccato articulation is retained [bug??]

Post by Daniel at Steinberg »

I’m certain that there can be no distinction between solo and section players that could account for any difference in behaviour.

Perhaps, musicmaven, you could try quitting and restarting Dorico, starting a new project with a single player and instrument, and create two chords. If the problem reproduces, save the project, do Help > Create Diagnostic Report, and attach both the project file and the zip file created on your desktop containing the diagnostic files here.

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Re: Staccato articulation is retained [bug??]

Post by musicmaven »

Daniel, I tried creating a new project with single player and everything seems to be working correctly now. I'll let you know if it happens again, and send a Diagnostic Report. Thanks for your help!
Dorico Pro 3.5.10.1045, NotePerformer 3.3.1, Notation Express XL, Finale 1.0 through Finale 97, Sibelius 2-7.5, Notion 5.2, Composer's Mosaic, MuseScore 2, Digital Performer 5, iMac, MacBook Air, Oxygen 61, OS X High Sierra 10.13.6

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Re: Staccato articulation is retained [bug??]

Post by naomi »

Has anyone else encountered this bug? (and has it been fixed in versions after 2.2.10? I still have that one)

I've noticed it too in a project I am working on at the moment. It's a piano score (therefore lots of chords) and all chords in the right hand automatically get an accent attached to them, whereas all chords in the left hand automatically get an accent and a staccato mark attached to them, regardless of whether I select or deselect those articulations during input. If I select an articulation that cannot be coincident with an accent or a staccato mark (e.g. a marcato or staccatissimo) it will change to that articulation, until such time as I deselect the marcato or staccatissimo (leaving no articulation selected), upon which new chords entered will return to the original staccato/accent mark. It seems to be limited to one flow in the project—i.e. in other flows it is possible to create chords which only have the articulations I have explicitly selected, rather than retaining unwanted articulations that have not been selected.

As such I was able to "solve" the problem by creating a new flow and copying all the music into it, and then deleting the original flow. But I still have no idea what causes it.

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Daniel at Steinberg
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Re: Staccato articulation is retained [bug??]

Post by Daniel at Steinberg »

Yes, this bug did get fixed, but not in Dorico 2, I'm afraid. You might want to consider updating to Dorico 3 at some point, though while this is inconvenient it's probably not enough on its own to make it worth buying the update! (There are lots of other lovely new features in Dorico 3, of course.)

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Re: Staccato articulation is retained [bug??]

Post by naomi »

No worries, just glad to know it's a solved issue. I will definitely be upgrading to 3 as soon as I have an orchestral score to write.

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Re: Staccato articulation is retained [bug??]

Post by tromoff »

I'm still seeing this problem. I'm using Dorico Pro 3.5. It seems to happen when there is a group of notes that are staccato under a slur. It doesn't always happen, but it's unpredictable. When I go back and remove the staccatos things seem to go back to normal. It's to the point that I will replace a staccato eighth note with a non-staccato 16th note, just to get around the problem. But it is NOT fixed.

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Daniel at Steinberg
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Re: Staccato articulation is retained [bug??]

Post by Daniel at Steinberg »

Welcome to the forum, tromoff. It sounds like the problem you're reporting concerns playback, right? The issue under discussion in this thread concerns note input, not playback. Perhaps you could upload a simple example showing the problem you're experiencing so we can look into it for you?

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Re: Staccato articulation is retained [bug??]

Post by tromoff »

OK, I did send an email to support with a short video showing what is going on. I'm seeing this problem more and more often. One staccato note somewhere in the piece turns on staccato for everything following it on playback. It's becoming so that Dorico is unusable.

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Daniel at Steinberg
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Re: Staccato articulation is retained [bug??]

Post by Daniel at Steinberg »

We have already found and fixed a bug concerning staccato becoming stuck on since 3.5 was released, which will hopefully solve your case. If you want to attach your project here (zip it up first) and tell me where staccato is getting stuck on, we'll check that the case you've experienced is definitively fixed.

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Re: Staccato articulation is retained [bug??]

Post by VG Kawanzan »

I've run into a similar, or maybe the same, problem (using Dorico Pro 3.5) where a Staccato setting on a note resulted in Staccato getting stuck "on" during playback for all subsequent notes in the Flow. After much experimentation, I narrowed my issue down to the tied note scenario shown in the first screen shot. After more experimentation, I found a workaround where I could force the Staccato to affect only the intended tied notes by inserting a rest as indicated in the second screen shot. And to make sure something else wasn't impacting it, I started a new "debug" project with all default factory settings (except for tablature) to confirm my findings. The two screen shots are from my stripped down "debug" project. The instrument I used is Steel Guitar VX from Halion Sonic SE3, but I've found the specific instrument didn't matter -- others had same issue.

Sticky Staccato Example.png
Staccato gets stuck on after tied note in example
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Sticky Staccato Temp Fix.png
Inserting rest prevents Staccato getting stuck on
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Re: Staccato articulation is retained [bug??]

Post by VG Kawanzan »

Attached are two screen shots of additional workarounds to the problem scenario I described in my prior post. One workaround uses an accent mark at the same rhythmic position as the Staccato in the tied chain, while the other uses a nat. pt on the first note after the tied chain. Both result in turning the Staccato "off" after the tied chain.

Sticky Staccato Temp Fix 2.png
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Sticky Staccato Temp Fix 3.png
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Vince

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Daniel at Steinberg
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Re: Staccato articulation is retained [bug??]

Post by Daniel at Steinberg »

Welcome to the forum, VG Kawanzan. If you want to attach your debug poject here we can take a look in the current development builds and verify that this case is handled by the fix we have already put in.

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