SURROUND PANNER JOYSTICK

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Keyplayer
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SURROUND PANNER JOYSTICK

Post by Keyplayer » Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:52 am

WOW, I had no idea how difficult it would be to obtain a Surround Panner Joystick for my current Artist Series Controller setup (1 MC Control, 2 Mix & 1 Transport)!! :o

There is some kind of bug (that Avid swears is SB's fault) that shows 2 sources on the MC's surround window. Trying to swipe the touch screen to pan the source (once you know WHICH one actually IS the source) is jittery as hell and while the pan knobs are calibrated better than the channel controls, that isn't saying much when the DAW shows that I'm on channel 104, but the MC window shows that I'm on channel 117!! Besides that, with only 8 rotary encoders, you're doing a LOT of paging. The mapping is also very odd, as the 2nd page is blank. So, you've got controls on p. 1 and then the rest are on 3 - 5.

I was hoping to get some kind of USB Joystick that would allow me to bypass the MC Control's surround window altogether or, at least severely reduce my reliance upon it. I wanted to incorporate it into this current setup, hence my interest in the JL Cooper unit that I saw installed in the Nuage controllers. I figured that when I move over to the Nuage controllers, I could just use the same unit. But I have been sufficiently warned off by Fredo and a host of other unhappy Cubase/Nuendo users. A search on the Avid site showed more than a few unhappy PT users as well with the JL Cooper devices.

I saw one from Martin Sound. But it's clearly so expensive they won't even list the price!!!! http://www.martinsound.com/pd_mpao.htm

Next stop, X-Keys. Their Macro Keys units work great with my setup and give me so many "Smart Switches" as to rival the MC Pro controller. So, I thought it was at least worth a look. http://xkeys.com/xkeys/xk68Joystick.php At $250.00, it seems viable IF I can program all of the Surround controls to the 60 Macro buttons provided. Bigger concerns are whether the joystick will stay where you leave it or whether it snaps back to the center when you let it go, making that an instant deal breaker.

Everything else I'm finding is basically for Gamers, not people working in production. So, can you guys recommend ANYTHING suitable for working with Nuendo 7/8? :?: :?:
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Re: SURROUND PANNER JOYSTICK

Post by McSound » Mon Oct 22, 2018 12:48 pm

Hi, Keyplayer. I was looking for suitable surround panner controller as well. Avid Artist Control's pan seems the same to me not very handy. I'd found a great application for android "TouchDaw" it has XY pad, even two on one screen, so now I can manage not only surround pan for 5.1 mixes, but even dolby atmos pan.
https://youtu.be/VhtAIjPG-no
So my problem's fully solved)
Also there's interesring decision with xbox360 gamepad as midi controller. https://youtu.be/36DKVLwmp0I
Though the joystick on it asways goes to center by default which is not in accordance to front'n'center default pan position in nuendo.
Both methods are pretty cheap.
P.s.
TouchOSC is even better, so I bought it also.
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Re: SURROUND PANNER JOYSTICK

Post by arteffect » Sun Dec 30, 2018 6:28 pm

If you are still interested, I am currently working on my own development for our Nuage. The device can also be built into its own housing.
Here are some pictures of the first version. The final device will be black.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing

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Re: SURROUND PANNER JOYSTICK

Post by Keyplayer » Mon Dec 31, 2018 1:11 am

arteffect wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 6:28 pm
If you are still interested, I am currently working on my own development for our Nuage. The device can also be built into its own housing.
Here are some pictures of the first version. The final device will be black.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing
Looks good! ;)
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Re: SURROUND PANNER JOYSTICK

Post by Dog and Pony » Mon Dec 31, 2018 9:32 pm

If you are still interested, I am currently working on my own development for our Nuage. The device can also be built into its own housing.
Here are some pictures of the first version. The final device will be black.
Whoa, that looks great! Mac and PC? john
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Re: SURROUND PANNER JOYSTICK

Post by ErikG » Tue Jan 01, 2019 2:30 am

Not using midi?
Midi when I last looked at it was way to limited still.
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Re: SURROUND PANNER JOYSTICK

Post by arteffect » Fri Jan 04, 2019 11:58 am

The panner will run on both PC´s and Mac. It will be connected via USB and communicate via MIDI. The joystick sends a pitch control for each axis, so that there is a higher resolution than 128 steps.
The device is integrated via a Generic Device. There it is possible that the encoders work in "relative mode", so that there is no jump if values should be changed by mouse.

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Re: SURROUND PANNER JOYSTICK

Post by Dog and Pony » Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:52 pm

Very cool, definitely interested!
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Re: SURROUND PANNER JOYSTICK

Post by KSD » Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:19 pm

arteffect wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 6:28 pm
If you are still interested, I am currently working on my own development for our Nuage. The device can also be built into its own housing.
Here are some pictures of the first version. The final device will be black.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing
Very interested if it can be used as a stand alone (because I don't own a Nuage).
I now have an AXOS from JLCooper, but it is unusable.

Best, Alan
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Re: SURROUND PANNER JOYSTICK

Post by arteffect » Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:58 pm

There is the idea to build the controller into its own housing. Can you give me the reason why the axos is not working?

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Re: SURROUND PANNER JOYSTICK

Post by KSD » Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:33 pm

arteffect wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:58 pm
There is the idea to build the controller into its own housing. Can you give me the reason why the axos is not working?
Hi

There was a post about the JL Cooper panners a while ago. My problems with the AXOS are described in the last post:

viewtopic.php?t=92396

This was on Nuendo 7, but the problem is still there. No priority at JL Copper to fix this, after several emails to their support.

Good to hear that you are planning to build the controller as stand alone. Any idea about when and pricing?

Best, Alan
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Re: SURROUND PANNER JOYSTICK

Post by arteffect » Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:52 am

Hi Alan,

the problem you describe is a little in the nature of things.
the reason for this is that both the axos and my joystick are not touch-sensitive. so for nuendo/cubase it is impossible to find out if the user still wants to write automation or not.
with my joystick, i work around this problem with a button, with which i can switch the write function of the automation on and off. unfortunately, there's no other way.

the reason for this misery is that Harrison holds a patent on touch-sensitive and motorized joysticks. that's why there are no products on the market.

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Re: SURROUND PANNER JOYSTICK

Post by Fredo » Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:59 am

Arteffect.

I appreciate the effort you put in making a new panner.
Which makes me think ...

Isn't there a way you can "hack" into the midi communication of the JL Cooper panner en simply disable the divergence rotary knobs on the joystick!?
That would solve the biggets problem with the JL Cooper panner.

Fredo

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Re: SURROUND PANNER JOYSTICK

Post by Keyplayer » Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:16 pm

Any pricing and/or release information available?
Nuendo 1.0 - 10 |VST Studio Connect Pro | Windows 10 Pro | Intel i7 - 5820K CPU @ 3.30 | 64-bit OS | 32GB of RAM |RME HDSPe RayDAT | NVIDIA GeForce GTX 750 Ti Video Card | Euphonix MC Control, 2 Mix & Transport | Xkeys | iConnectivity mi10 MIDI Interface | UAD-2 Octo Core with UAD-1 Legacy Ultra Pak | Isotope RX4 | Melodyne 3.2 | Voxengo Plugins | Real Guitar | B4 II | EZ Drummer | Drumagog 4 | Virtual Guitarist 2 | Korg, Roland, Kurzweil Synths | Apogee Big Ben | 32 Channel Panasonic DA-7 desk | Equator D5 (5.1) & Mackie 824 (St.) monitors | VS-1680 & 880 HDR's |

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Re: SURROUND PANNER JOYSTICK

Post by KSD » Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:08 pm

arteffect wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:52 am
Hi Alan,

the problem you describe is a little in the nature of things.
the reason for this is that both the axos and my joystick are not touch-sensitive. so for nuendo/cubase it is impossible to find out if the user still wants to write automation or not.
with my joystick, i work around this problem with a button, with which i can switch the write function of the automation on and off. unfortunately, there's no other way.

the reason for this misery is that Harrison holds a patent on touch-sensitive and motorized joysticks. that's why there are no products on the market.
Hi Arteffect

I understand. But if you add a button that can easily switch write on/off, that would be a good solution. Maybe I can add it as a key command in combination with the AXOS, but it would be much better to have that function on the panner itself. I'd still be very interested to know if there is a release date and an idea of pricing? ;)

Best, Alan
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Re: SURROUND PANNER JOYSTICK

Post by Dog and Pony » Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:40 pm

Hi Arteffect, just letting you know I replied to your PM, very interested! Thanks, john
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Re: SURROUND PANNER JOYSTICK

Post by arteffect » Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:35 am

Fredo wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:59 am
Arteffect.

I appreciate the effort you put in making a new panner.
Which makes me think ...

Isn't there a way you can "hack" into the midi communication of the JL Cooper panner en simply disable the divergence rotary knobs on the joystick!?
That would solve the biggets problem with the JL Cooper panner.

Fredo
Hello Fredo,

unfortunately I cannot change the software of the JL Cooper.
Also one of the main reasons to build my own panner is to have a smaller and more discreet joystick.

Greetings Peter

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Re: SURROUND PANNER JOYSTICK

Post by arteffect » Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:38 am

Keyplayer wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:16 pm
Any pricing and/or release information available?
i think the first device with the current layout and functionality will be ready in two weeks.
The price will be about 420,-€ plus tax.

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Re: SURROUND PANNER JOYSTICK

Post by audiomonkeys » Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:38 pm

This looks very cool. I love the fact you have added the Quick controls at the top. Is there a plan for Atmos hight? I always thought having the panner joy stick that could pull up and down would be a great idea for adjusting the hight of the object.
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Re: SURROUND PANNER JOYSTICK

Post by Helidream » Sun Feb 10, 2019 6:27 pm

What about a motorized panner ?

Seems like a good option, with the same advantages as very common motorized faders.

https://www.facebook.com/HarrisonMixbus ... 374345153/

https://youtu.be/X1BKkZs3DvA

https://youtu.be/9OilHhgRhLU

https://youtu.be/R_AvYSDZBCI
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Re: SURROUND PANNER JOYSTICK

Post by MattiasNYC » Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:37 pm

Careful though. I think Harrison owns a patent on motorized touch sensitive joysticks in at least North America. I could be wrong, but that's what I recall.
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Re: SURROUND PANNER JOYSTICK

Post by Helidream » Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:04 am

Yes they do have a patent, but i suspect that IRIS magnetic control is a different patent. So could probably be used for a panner if licensed from them.

And i think that there are other mechanics usable, like the well known two axis gimbal joystick, that do not have probably any patent (it is used inside every RC model remote control with pots instead of servo motors). Not as smart and silent as the magnetic control from IRIS, but should be enough for a surround panner application.

Would be a very interesting diy project.

Microsoft had a motorized joystick (sidewinder force feedback) a few years ago that was not very expensive.

So this is definitely something doable for a reasonable cost with today available components (arduino...) and 3D printing.

It's definitely something that would be better as an opensource project. In recent history, this kind of low sales volume devices are not correctly supported on the long term by the rare manufacturers who makes them. Or when they are well supported, the manufacturers go to bankrupt quite fastly.
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JLCooper MCS3800 (Mixing and Transport) - AKAI AFX + Midi translator Pro (Control Room) - TouchOSC Android (Personal Monitoring Controller) Control surfaces.
Rogers LS3/5a proximity monitors.
Sony PCM-7040 DAT - TASCAM HD-P2 recorder - PTV PT5210 Digital sync generator - Steinberg Timebase - Adam Smith ZETA3 synchronizers.
Lindos LA100 audio analyzer, HP 5372A frequency and time interval analyzer, Siglent SDG2042X signal generator - Tektronix TDS5000 scope - Efratom 10 MHz rubidium clock - HP Z3816A GPS frequency standard.

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