Recording in Cubase 9.....Mixing in Logic X

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Recording in Cubase 9.....Mixing in Logic X

Post by digi001 » Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:40 pm

In case the Cubase development team is watching these forums....I just wanted to share what I'm pretty sure at this point will become my workflow for the foreseeable future. Recording in Cubase, then exporting and mixing in Logic X.

Although not super convenient.....the reason I have decided this will be my best workflow is the following:

1. Logic X can distribute plugin load to multiple cores much better
2. Logic X lets you hear your real-time mixdown by default, without having to setup Studio. I have an Apollo Console so I dont need Studio.
3. Logic X bounce-in-place include external hardware inserts <--- my bad Cubase allows you to do this
4. Logic X has better way to integrate external hardware....examples:
(-I have a patchbay of 32 channels of external hardware normalled to my interface I/O. When recording I insert into these channels. However Cubase doesn't allow you to have I/O for both recording and external FX. They dont even allow you to save External FX routing.
-If I have a pair of 1176s, Cubase makes me decide to use these either as a pair or 2 mono. Sometimes in a mix I will use 2 1176s on 2 different sources, or both to effect a stereo track.... Logic X lets me do either on the fly.
-Mono to Stereo devices like many of the old reverbs are not handled very easily with Cubase External FX. You have to create a group to apply this on a mono source etc.
-There is no MIX knob on the external FX insert plugin. Really cool for applying distortions or other effects in parralel within the channel)
5. Logic X has much better/easier way (in my opinion) to create track stacks (their version of groups)
6. Logic X has a better way of turning a mono track into stereo. (90% of the time I want my mono tracks to stay mono. But occasionally I want to add some stereo effect to the insert then apply further shaping plugins. Logic X handles this within the channel, while Cubase you need to create a new group)

I should also mention I recently have incorporated a Console 1 into my setup. And although Cubase might be integrated more with that device in the near future, most of the items on this list are a show stopper for me. Until Cubase has them I dont see myself being able to mix with it.

Logic X in my opinion is a totally unreliable and crappy recording software which I feel is not professional enough for my studio compared to Cubase. However for mixing it seems like it will be my choice for now.
Last edited by digi001 on Tue Feb 27, 2018 6:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Recording in Cubase 9.....Mixing in Logic X

Post by titchyblackcat » Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:33 pm

I think you'll find a lot of the professional people use Pro Tools or Logic.
But. if you're at home working in the box Cubase is an OK software to use.
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Re: Recording in Cubase 9.....Mixing in Logic X

Post by digi001 » Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:50 pm

Yeh part of me sometimes thinks I should of gone the Pro Tools route....but having already owned Cubase 6 the upgrade for that was much more attractive. Plus I already know Cubase.....i think it's real close for me....but maybe by Cubase 10 it will have a few more of those pro-features.
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Re: Recording in Cubase 9.....Mixing in Logic X

Post by digi001 » Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:52 pm

And just to add #7 to the list I guess would be the Varispeed control from Logic X. Although usually more beneficial to use this just before tracking vocals.... it is really nice sometimes to take entire tracks up or down a few semi-tones. Can totally make/change the vibe of a song in some cases.
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Re: Recording in Cubase 9.....Mixing in Logic X

Post by jpgtr » Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:22 pm

As much as it pains me, I might have to do this too (for 7.1 channel mixing).
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Re: Recording in Cubase 9.....Mixing in Logic X

Post by Martin.Jirsak » Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:00 am

Hi,

There is also lots of Pro Cubase/Nuendo users.

2) You can set it up once and then you can hear your real time Mixdown too. Or am I missing something?
3) Cubase also includes external HW, or...?
4) Probably depends on HW. HW synths are interested better in Cubase from my point of view.
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Re: Recording in Cubase 9.....Mixing in Logic X

Post by digi001 » Fri Feb 23, 2018 7:17 am

I take it back! Cubase 'Render in Place' is the one with the real-time feature...NOT Logic X.

Just went to print my STEMS (since I use hardware and need to do this for recall)
And realized Logic X cant do it.

Cubase seems to have the upper hand here....the plot thickens.
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Re: Recording in Cubase 9.....Mixing in Logic X

Post by goshalev » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:01 am

Logic can not export audio mix in 32 bit for further mastering.
Its shame in 2018.

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Re: Recording in Cubase 9.....Mixing in Logic X

Post by blinkofani » Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:29 pm

goshalev wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:01 am
Logic can not export audio mix in 32 bit for further mastering.
Its shame in 2018.
2017 maybe. Logic 10.4 can now, finally, export as 32-bit... 8-)

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Re: Recording in Cubase 9.....Mixing in Logic X

Post by goshalev » Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:59 pm

Its progress.
But I am on El Capitan,no chance to try

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Re: Recording in Cubase 9.....Mixing in Logic X

Post by digi001 » Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:17 pm

I recently started using Folders more in Cubase and it makes life a little easier not having Logic X 'track stacks'.

BUT........ my last complaint I forgot to include is #8!
The option of Dual Mono for a plugin on a stereo track.

To me that is a game changer and really can make a difference. Logic X recently included this and it is awesome. Some plugins may already have this built-in to them, but typically they do not......when it comes to compression it really helps me to get 1 step closer to an Analog Sound in certain situations and implement the plugin in dual mono.
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Re: Recording in Cubase 9.....Mixing in Logic X

Post by Martin.Jirsak » Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:18 am

You can use the Insert routing to achieve this too.
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Re: Recording in Cubase 9.....Mixing in Logic X

Post by digi001 » Tue Feb 27, 2018 6:53 pm

Martin.Jirsak wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:00 am
4) Probably depends on HW. HW synths are interested better in Cubase from my point of view.
Maybe you're right....which is why the workflow doesn't seem to be good for me.

Don't get me wrong I do have analog synths in my studio (Jupiter 8, Juno 106, SH-09, RS-09, MS-20, PE-1000, MG-1, DX7 etc) ..... but I use an old vintage mixer to sum down to a stereo channel, and occasionally i'll bypass this and just go direct with a synth. Usually I am playing the synths by hand occasionally ill trigger the Juno 106 or SH-09 via MIDI. The Jupiter doesn't have it unfortunatley.

But I'd much rather have quick use of my hardware during mixing. To me that is much more convinent to be able to patch in via plugin insert. Such as patching a 1176 or LA-2A or DBX 165a or LA3A etc....(not the UAD plugins, the real things)
Last edited by digi001 on Tue Feb 27, 2018 6:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Recording in Cubase 9.....Mixing in Logic X

Post by digi001 » Tue Feb 27, 2018 6:55 pm

Martin.Jirsak wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:18 am
You can use the Insert routing to achieve this too.
Are you talking about the Dual Mono thing? Can you elaborate?

I mean I know everything can be done one way or another via Cubase routing. But I am asking for a elegant solution. In Logix X if you load a plugin in Dual Mono for a stereo channel you get 1 window screen where you can toggle back and forth between L and R channels. Its very nice.
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Re: Recording in Cubase 9.....Mixing in Logic X

Post by Martin.Jirsak » Tue Feb 27, 2018 7:28 pm

I see, this is not possible in Cubase.
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Re: Recording in Cubase 9.....Mixing in Logic X

Post by TNM » Sun Mar 04, 2018 6:26 pm

Yet for mixing, it doesn't bother you that if you use latent plugins on your audio track inserts, Logic can not automate in time? Any track that has a latent plugin *anywhere*, logic's automation for any effect on that track will be out of time by the latent plugin delay time.

Or, what about the effects buffer issue? Reverb tails coming out of nowhere when the cursor is over silence, phantom notes from AU instruments - and all will be bounced in the mix unless you use workarounds.

After 20 years with Logic those are the two reasons I left.. it makes mixing an absolute chore.. I never had any issues composing in Logic but audio editing and mixing is horrible in general (IMHO).
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Re: Recording in Cubase 9.....Mixing in Logic X

Post by KHS » Sun Mar 04, 2018 6:43 pm

titchyblackcat wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:33 pm
I think you'll find a lot of the professional people use Pro Tools or Logic.
But. if you're at home working in the box Cubase is an OK software to use.
Pretty sure that there are as many professional Cubase users as Logic users if not more as Logic is MAC only.
To name just a few: Hans Zimmer, Joey Sturgis, Joel Wannasek.
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Re: Recording in Cubase 9.....Mixing in Logic X

Post by KHS » Sun Mar 04, 2018 6:50 pm

digi001 wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:40 pm
In case the Cubase development team is watching these forums....I just wanted to share what I'm pretty sure at this point will become my workflow for the foreseeable future. Recording in Cubase, then exporting and mixing in Logic X.

Although not super convenient.....the reason I have decided this will be my best workflow is the following:

1. Logic X can distribute plugin load to multiple cores much better Any proves on that?
2. Logic X lets you hear your real-time mixdown by default, without having to setup Studio. I have an Apollo Console so I dont need Studio. Just set it up once and done.
3. Logic X bounce-in-place include external hardware inserts <--- my bad Cubase allows you to do this
4. Logic X has better way to integrate external hardware....examples:
(-I have a patchbay of 32 channels of external hardware normalled to my interface I/O. When recording I insert into these channels. However Cubase doesn't allow you to have I/O for both recording and external FX. They dont even allow you to save External FX routing.
-If I have a pair of 1176s, Cubase makes me decide to use these either as a pair or 2 mono. Sometimes in a mix I will use 2 1176s on 2 different sources, or both to effect a stereo track.... Logic X lets me do either on the fly.
-Mono to Stereo devices like many of the old reverbs are not handled very easily with Cubase External FX. You have to create a group to apply this on a mono source etc. Cannot comment on that as I'm not using External FX but are you sure it cannot be done?
-There is no MIX knob on the external FX insert plugin. Really cool for applying distortions or other effects in parralel within the channel)
5. Logic X has much better/easier way (in my opinion) to create track stacks (their version of groups) How is that? care to explain?
6. Logic X has a better way of turning a mono track into stereo. (90% of the time I want my mono tracks to stay mono. But occasionally I want to add some stereo effect to the insert then apply further shaping plugins. Logic X handles this within the channel, while Cubase you need to create a new group) Yes, that is true.

I should also mention I recently have incorporated a Console 1 into my setup. And although Cubase might be integrated more with that device in the near future, most of the items on this list are a show stopper for me. Until Cubase has them I dont see myself being able to mix with it.

Logic X in my opinion is a totally unreliable and crappy recording software which I feel is not professional enough for my studio compared to Cubase. However for mixing it seems like it will be my choice for now.
And then you have a lot of things that are imho way better in Cubase.
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Re: Recording in Cubase 9.....Mixing in Logic X

Post by themarqueeyears » Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:16 am

LOL - how different we all are.

I have up Logic becasue I way, way prefer mixing in Cubase Pro 9.5

Maybe it's my age (55) but I come from a background of large format analog mixing desks and Cubase
now having decent DCA's in the mixer makes me able to do complex mixes so easily.

Mixing in Logic X is a huge PITA for me - plus I don't have an afternoon to wait for the solo to become active - when will Apple up date that 90's audio engine!

I used to compose in Logic, but I've now moved over to Cubase and Dorico.

The only environment I prefer mixing in is Pro Tools HD - but as I don;t like composing in ~PT - thankfully today Cubase can comfortably cover both bases.

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Re: Recording in Cubase 9.....Mixing in Logic X

Post by TNM » Wed Mar 07, 2018 4:17 pm

themarqueeyears wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:16 am
LOL - how different we all are.

I have up Logic becasue I way, way prefer mixing in Cubase Pro 9.5

Maybe it's my age (55) but I come from a background of large format analog mixing desks and Cubase
now having decent DCA's in the mixer makes me able to do complex mixes so easily.

Mixing in Logic X is a huge PITA for me - plus I don't have an afternoon to wait for the solo to become active - when will Apple up date that 90's audio engine!

I used to compose in Logic, but I've now moved over to Cubase and Dorico.

The only environment I prefer mixing in is Pro Tools HD - but as I don;t like composing in ~PT - thankfully today Cubase can comfortably cover both bases.
you are spot on in every point.. Now that Cubase has mixer undo though i think it even has the edge on PT.. though mixing in PT is indeed very enjoyable.. Cubase's mixer is way ahead of Logic's in almost every way. You are not alone! I am 45, started with logic at 23 I think I was, I did have an analog desk (mackie 32.8) which was a great home studio desk at the time, and i tracked it into an echo layla 8 channels at a time. Use a rode classic mic. But still, i started all this in the digital age as I've always recorded to a DAW and composed in the DAW.. so it's not just an age thing..Cubase is simply better than Logic. I really find the OP's post hard to understand cause Logic's weakest link IS mixing, with it's pathetic PDC problems and the effects buffer issue.. Also the mixer is still not even accurate to the 0.1DB except for a few levels below 0db..
But the worst part is, even if you take all else of what i said away, Logic has a horrendous delay in it's audio engine.. UNLIKE Cubase, it is not realtime for any clip movement or gain changes on clips, there is a 3 to 5 second delay for *anything*, including pitch change/clip gain/delete a clip/move a clip/copy-paste clip/PDC plugin value changes on the fly

Perhaps the OP really hasn't hit Logic hard enough yet to realise the grass is not greener on the other side.
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Re: Recording in Cubase 9.....Mixing in Logic X

Post by mart » Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:08 pm

KHS wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 6:43 pm
titchyblackcat wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:33 pm
I think you'll find a lot of the professional people use Pro Tools or Logic.
But. if you're at home working in the box Cubase is an OK software to use.
Pretty sure that there are as many professional Cubase users as Logic users if not more as Logic is MAC only.
To name just a few: Hans Zimmer, Joey Sturgis, Joel Wannasek.
Count myself as a Professional user in that Cubase is the main DAW of my commercial studio which runs 6 days a week. I prefer it over ProTools as a creative tool but certain things about how I can organise a mixflow is also faster. Yes there are problems but I think all DAWs are never perfect. I've never had a client complain that I wasnt tracking and mixing in ProTools instead of it. They trust that its my tool of choice and its the end result that counts.

On saying that there are multiple things that need to happen to bring the ProTools people over. Some of those are in red on my signiature....
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Re: Recording in Cubase 9.....Mixing in Logic X

Post by KHS » Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:36 pm

mart wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:08 pm

Count myself as a Professional user in that Cubase is the main DAW of my commercial studio which runs 6 days a week. I prefer it over ProTools as a creative tool but certain things about how I can organise a mixflow is also faster. Yes there are problems but I think all DAWs are never perfect. I've never had a client complain that I wasnt tracking and mixing in ProTools instead of it. They trust that its my tool of choice and its the end result that counts.

On saying that there are multiple things that need to happen to bring the ProTools people over. Some of those are in red on my signiature....
I agree with you. One of the main reason that most are using ProTools is simply because all the major studios have ProTools which they have used since the old days where ProTools was probably the best for professionel use.
These days where you see more and more of the big guys working in their own studios for mixing/producing and only using the major studios for tracking a lot of them have moved over to different DAWs, yet ProTools still remain the most used DAW in the commercial world.
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Re: Recording in Cubase 9.....Mixing in Logic X

Post by digi001 » Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:23 pm

themarqueeyears wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:16 am
LOL - how different we all are.

I have up Logic becasue I way, way prefer mixing in Cubase Pro 9.5

Maybe it's my age (55) but I come from a background of large format analog mixing desks and Cubase
now having decent DCA's in the mixer makes me able to do complex mixes so easily.

Mixing in Logic X is a huge PITA for me - plus I don't have an afternoon to wait for the solo to become active - when will Apple up date that 90's audio engine!

I used to compose in Logic, but I've now moved over to Cubase and Dorico.

The only environment I prefer mixing in is Pro Tools HD - but as I don;t like composing in ~PT - thankfully today Cubase can comfortably cover both bases.
I think it really comes down to our workflow and how we are making music.....

1. Do you use Hardware?
(ie mono compressors, mono eqs, mono reverbs, stereo fx, etc)
I have almost 32 channels of I/O of hardware via External FX (a mixture of mono and stereo devices)

For people in the age of UAD and plugins, you don't think twice about applying an 1176 to an instrument. Mono or stereo it doesn't really matter for you. But for ME, I only have a couple 1176s. SO, either I want to apply 1 to the bass and 1 to the vocal, or both to a stereo drum bus, or 1 to a guitar then apply a mono-to-stereo analog chorus box after that. To have the flexibility of any of those scenarios via Cubase External FX solution is not possible. They don't allow it. However in Logic X (and I think Protools) it is possible.

2. Do you record vintage Analog Synths?
(My studio has alot of them)
Maybe your 55 so you remember, but in the 70's and early 80's most synths were typically not stereo. There is 1 output. So I record my mono synths with a mono channel. I also do this because alot of time I want to route this through my La-2A or LA-3A (not the plugin) and I need it to be in mono for that. But I also usually like spreading synths out. So apply some stereo chorus FX. But convert the mono channel to stereo Cubase makes you create another group bus. Logic you can do this all in-line.

For the record.....I am mixing now on Cubase (not Logic X)
The main dealbreaker for me is Real-Time Render. Logic doesn't have real-time for their bounce-in-place. (I need realtime for my hardware)
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Re: Recording in Cubase 9.....Mixing in Logic X

Post by digi001 » Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:28 pm

In summary I think Cubase would be the ultimate mixing choice for me if:

1. Took advantage of Multiple Cores better
2. External FX feature had more flexibility (doesn't lock out that channel assignment, until you actually use it. had a mix knob for external fx insert plugin. had mono-to-stereo capability)

Everything else is fine.

For the record I don't use an analog mixer....but I am using Softube Console, which I think it awesome.
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Re: Recording in Cubase 9.....Mixing in Logic X

Post by KHS » Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:31 pm

digi001 wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:28 pm
In summary I think Cubase would be the ultimate mixing choice for me if:

1. Took advantage of Multiple Cores better
2. External FX feature had more flexibility (doesn't lock out that channel assignment, until you actually use it. had a mix knob for external fx insert plugin. had mono-to-stereo capability)

Everything else is fine.

For the record I don't use an analog mixer....but I am using Softube Console, which I think it awesome.
Again, Any proves that Logic is better for multi cores?
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