Looping Pop on Export

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birdjunk
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Looping Pop on Export

Post by birdjunk » Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:16 am

essentially, i am looking for "render as loop" functionality like ableton (and logic) has.
i put together a macro to get close to that functionality and all is well until exporting OUT of nuendo where a "pop" is introduced when listening in any editor such as sound forge/wavelab/audition, or even re-importing the stereo .wav into nuendo itself.

in nuendo, the pre-exported loop looks like this:
https://imgur.com/a/lSFd1

within nuendo at this pre-exported stage it loops seamlessly, but as soon as i choose either audio mixdown, render in place or export selected tracks the pop is introduced.

i am rendering out a file that is the same format/resolution as my session (in this case, 48k 32bit .wav). also, there are no plugins on my chain at this final export stage.

because there are two tracks that need to be blended together (to get the tail), "Bounce Selection" will not work.

If i take the pre-exported loop pieces and pull them into Pro Tools and export, the pop, disappears.

nuendo exporting this pop has been an issue since i started using it in version 3, however, i was not looping music, but sfx ambient loops/beds so sound forge, or Wwise, could easily fix the problem. with music, however, you need the transient attack immediately in most cases, so a SF crossfade won't work.

even better would be if steinberg just added "render as loop" a la ableton. i have just finally started using ableton after all these years, and i must say it is surprisingly intuitive.

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ChrisPolus
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Re: Looping Pop on Export

Post by ChrisPolus » Tue Feb 27, 2018 10:00 am

I feel you. A few weeks ago I had the same problem.
viewtopic.php?f=275&t=131679

I found out that it was my processing that I did to the file. If there is any plugin, channel strip setting, EQ, in the signal chain (except maybe gain), apparently Nuendo isn't able to produce a proper loop anymore. Try to disable your plugins ang try again. Of course, the processing is what you want in your loop :( Currently, there's no solution to that in Nuendo.

I don't know if a "render 2nd pass" would help here, but in any case Nuendo would look better having such a function. And since it's the #1 DAW for audio post, a function that makessure loops you export really are loopable without any break in the waveform would be great. Add an option: "export as loop" and make sure beginning and ending waveform match... It's not a Nuendo only problem, though. Any perfectly looping sound file, if you run it through an EQ in a software, will not loop anymore. Apparently that has to do with the processing. That's why I think a "render second pass" is vital. And should be fairly easy to implement.

In any case, currently I do all my processing and editing in Nuendo, then export a rough approximation of the final loop and then go into another program like Loop Editor (http://loopeditor.aurchitect.com/ - not expensive, basic tool that is actually for music loops but works super well for audio loops too). And then I do my loop there. Anything Loop Editor exports works fine.

Sorry I cannot give you good news. I have tried long. With multiple tools. As soon as you add a processor like EQ, it is possible it's not looping anymore. Only workaround: do all your processing, bounce in place, make the loop then with no processors in the chain and export. That works.
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birdjunk
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Re: Looping Pop on Export

Post by birdjunk » Wed Feb 28, 2018 1:44 am

the strange thing is, is that it still occurs even if there is absolutely zero processing on the tracks and it is going directly to a master, also, with no processing of any kind on it.
additionally, the fact that i can drag the same cut source into another DAW and the pop magically disappears (within the DAW and upon export) suggests it is an issue specifically with Nuendo (and I'd imagine Cubase).

pulling it into yet another tool (i.e. loop editor) isn't really an option as i will be dealing with literally 1000s of stems for this project. i appreciate the suggestion, though.

so, off to ableton i go. i will remember you fondly Nuendo... for the most part. :)

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ChrisPolus
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Re: Looping Pop on Export

Post by ChrisPolus » Wed Feb 28, 2018 11:34 am

Yeah. As I said in my feature request:
viewtopic.php?f=276&t=133236

With a "render second pass" feature "All reverb is comfortably wrapped around, no tedious copying, bounce in place, editing... It's a one click operation, as it should be. Should be simple enough to implement and it goes a long way for people creating dozens or hundreds of loops for music and game sounds, ambiences and such."
Handmade Win10 x64 Machine, Intel 6 Core CPU, ASUS Prime Board, 16GB RAM, 1080 GTX
MacBook Pro 15" Late 2016 with Touchbar, latest macOS, 16GB RAM
Latest Nuendo version, Logic Pro X, Reaper, UAD Apollo Duo + Twin MK2 via Thunderbolt

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