PLUGINS too often Random and Missing

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cefshah
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PLUGINS too often Random and Missing

Post by cefshah » Wed Feb 28, 2018 12:19 pm

I'm on Windows 10, 64 bit... using the latest version of WaveLab 9.5.

Many of my favorite plugins are missing from the list where they should be.

I can see them being scanned when I start WaveLab, only to find them in the "Ignored" list. And even a re-scan of that ignored plugin fails to make it available in the list of available plugins.

It is SO interesting that I do not have this problem with Cubase 9.5 nor Sound Forge Pro 11.

I don't know what kind of answer I'll get from this, but I'm WAY TIRED of opening what is an otherwise STELLAR program (that I spent a lot of money on), and not being able to used ALL of my 64 bit plugins.

Steinberg... since Cubase 9.5 can show ALL of the plugins I've loading into the plugin directories on my PC, WHY HAS THIS NOT BEEN FIXED IN WAVELAB???!!!

I'm beyond disappointed, due to the initial expense of purchasing WaveLab and MAINLY that it has been a problem since 8.5... and no fix.

Seriously, if you guys can make this work with Cubase (several versions ago), what is the holdup with getting this right in WAVELAB??!!

Magix and Sound Forge Pro 12 (64 bit) is looking better and better.

I left WaveLab alone in the 1990's, because of its difficulties... I'm about to leave it again.

Please... answer this or provide a practical solution. I'm about to ABANDON WAVELAB, because MY PLUGINS are MY SOUND!!

Great program this WaveLab... but randomly loading/missing plugins is unacceptable in 2018.

Regards,

-Cefshah-
Last edited by cefshah on Wed Feb 28, 2018 12:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Thomas W. Bethel
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Re: PLUGINS too often Random and Missing

Post by Thomas W. Bethel » Wed Feb 28, 2018 12:28 pm

Are your plug ins 32 bit or 64 bit?
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Re: PLUGINS too often Random and Missing

Post by cefshah » Wed Feb 28, 2018 12:30 pm

All of my plugins are 64 bit.

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Re: PLUGINS too often Random and Missing

Post by PG » Wed Feb 28, 2018 12:40 pm

Try with the upcoming 9.5.20
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Re: PLUGINS too often Random and Missing

Post by cefshah » Wed Feb 28, 2018 2:28 pm

PG wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2018 12:40 pm
Try with the upcoming 9.5.20
Thanks, I will definitely try it.

About how long before I can get my hands on that?

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Re: PLUGINS too often Random and Missing

Post by StevenW » Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:01 pm

Re: When is 9.5.20 coming out?

Post by PG » Wed Feb 28, 2018 12:39 pm
You have enough fingers on one hand to count the days.
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cefshah
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Re: PLUGINS too often Random and Missing

Post by cefshah » Fri Mar 02, 2018 4:00 pm

PG wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2018 12:40 pm
Try with the upcoming 9.5.20
9.5.20 DID NOT FIX this major (VST plugin) problem for me.

WHY is it that WaveLab cannot or will not FIND/LIST all the 64 bit plugins I have in my directory?!

Why are SO MANY of them ending up in the "ignored" list?!

I have WaveLab looking at the exact SAME directory as Cubase 9.5... which finds EVERY plugin. Cubase finds these dll's and VST3's and loads them so that they are available for use. But in WaveLab 9.5... they can/do often come up MISSING and even change availability upon subsequent initializations of the program.

I was hoping that the 9.5.20 Update would resolve this. :(

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Re: PLUGINS too often Random and Missing

Post by PG » Fri Mar 02, 2018 5:41 pm

What plugin, for example? Take note that WaveLab ignore Instrument plugins.
Do you see them in the list of ignored plugins, in the WaveLab VST preference dialog?
Philippe

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Re: PLUGINS too often Random and Missing

Post by cefshah » Fri Mar 02, 2018 9:15 pm

PG wrote:
Fri Mar 02, 2018 5:41 pm
What plugin, for example? Take note that WaveLab ignore Instrument plugins.
Do you see them in the list of ignored plugins, in the WaveLab VST preference dialog?
(Is there a way to do a screenshot in this forum? I could show exactly what seeing.)

BTW, WaveLab is NOT ignoring ALL of my VSTi's... somehow (today), it is seeing/listing and 'hosting' my "Audio Modeling, Alto Sax". LOL!! :) It has never done that before. Then again, I DID install WaveLab 9.5.20 today... so, maybe that has something to do with that.

Here are a few of the MANY that load 'faithfully' into Cubase 9.5, that WaveLab (most of the time) ignores:

112 dB - Redline Preamp.dll (C:\Program Files\Common Files\Steinberg\VST2\112dB)
Brainworx - bx_console G.vst3 (C:\Program Files\Common Files\VST3)
Waves - WaveShell2-VST 9.91_x64.dll (C:\Program Files\VstPlugins)
Voxengo - VoxengoPristineSpace.dll (C:\Program Files\Steinberg\VstPlugins)
Waves - L316 Stereo.dll (C:\Program Files\Steinberg\VstPlugins)
Waves - L3-LL Ultra Stereo.dll (C:\Program Files\Steinberg\VstPlugins)
Nomad Factory - Retro Film-Tone.dll (C:\Program Files\Steinberg\VstPlugins\Nomad Factory)
iZotope - iZOzone8VintageCompressor.dll (C:\Program Files\Steinberg\VstPlugins)
iZotope - iZOzone8Exciter.dll (C:\Program Files\Steinberg\VstPlugins)
Fiedler Audio - fiedler audio stage.vst3 (C:\Program Files\Common Files\VST3)
Eventide - H3000 Factory.dll (C:\Program Files\Steinberg\VstPlugins)
SPL - SPL De-Verb.dll (C:\Program Files\Steinberg\VstPlugins\Plugin Alliance)
UVI - Rotaryx64.dll (C:\Program Files\Steinberg\VstPlugins)


For the record, under "Number of Plug-ins" there is the following data:

"VST-3 Plug-ins: 103
VST-2 Plug-ins: 145
Other Plug-ins: 8
Total: 256"

And I'll reemphasize... that WaveLab is hit/miss in detecting and displaying what is actually included in the "Ignored Plug-ins" list. (It will vary from time to time, per some random number of initializations of WaveLab itself.) For example, I could set up some amazing effects chain, under the "MASTERSECTION"... only to later find that one of more of the plugins I used to construct that chain are no longer 'available' to complete the same.

I put in a formal technical request about this problem today. Hopefully, Steinberg will help me to organize my plugin folders or find a workaround. But my original thinking was, if Cubase 9.5 was fully capable of detecting and making available hundreds of plugins... then so should be WaveLab (especially since WaveLab is looking at the same exact 'plugin' directory that Cubase is utilizing).

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Re: PLUGINS too often Random and Missing

Post by bob99 » Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:20 pm

cefshah wrote:
Fri Mar 02, 2018 9:15 pm
(Is there a way to do a screenshot in this forum? I could show exactly what seeing.)
The easiest way in Windows 10 is to search in the Windows Search box for "snipping tool". Open Snipping Tool, click New, and drag a rectangle around the area to capture. Save as .png or .jpg, and attach the .png or .jpg to your forum message.
Last edited by bob99 on Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:08 am, edited 2 times in total.

cefshah
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Re: PLUGINS too often Random and Missing

Post by cefshah » Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:32 pm

bob99 wrote:
Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:20 pm
cefshah wrote:
Fri Mar 02, 2018 9:15 pm
(Is there a way to do a screenshot in this forum? I could show exactly what seeing.)
The easiest way in Windows 10 is to search in the search box for "snipping tool". When Snipping Tool is open, click New and drag a rectangle around the area to capture. Save as PNG, and attach the PNG to your forum message.
Thanks, bob99!!

Here's what's on my WaveLab 9.5 "Ignored Plug-ins" list:
Attachments
Ignored WaveLab Plugins - Image 3.JPG
(186.46 KiB) Not downloaded yet
Ignored WaveLab Plugins - Image 2.JPG
(165.07 KiB) Not downloaded yet
Ignored WaveLab Plugins - Image 1.JPG
(161.61 KiB) Not downloaded yet

cefshah
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Re: PLUGINS too often Random and Missing

Post by cefshah » Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:33 pm

One more:
Attachments
Ignored WaveLab Plugins - Image 4.JPG
(176.22 KiB) Not downloaded yet

cefshah
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Re: PLUGINS too often Random and Missing

Post by cefshah » Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:37 pm

And in the time since I took these screen shots about 6 hours ago (to include 2 subsequent restarts of WaveLab), the "Ignored Plug-ins" list has changed. (Sigh.)

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Re: PLUGINS too often Random and Missing

Post by bob99 » Sat Mar 03, 2018 3:39 am

The only ones I can comment on are the Ozone "iZ" files in Picture #2. The Izotope "iZ" files are ignored here too. There should be other files called "iZotope" (not "iZ") in the plugin folder alongside them. I can access those plugins in Wavelab even though the "iZ" files are in the ignored list in Wavelab (same with RX - don't know what it means). Can you access the Ozone plugins in Wavelab anyway?

The Waves, FabFilter, and Eiosis don't make sense if they're 64 bit plugins, do they?

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Re: PLUGINS too often Random and Missing

Post by cefshah » Sat Mar 03, 2018 4:25 am

bob99 wrote:
Sat Mar 03, 2018 3:39 am
The only ones I can comment on are the Ozone "iZ" files in Picture #2. The Izotope "iZ" files are ignored here too. There should be other files called "iZotope" (not "iZ") in the plugin folder alongside them. I can access those plugins in Wavelab even though the "iZ" files are in the ignored list in Wavelab (same with RX - don't know what it means). Can you access the Ozone plugins in Wavelab anyway?

The Waves, FabFilter, and Eiosis don't make sense if they're 64 bit plugins, do they?
Yes, the Ozone 8 plugins work fine in WaveLab (when they're available). :)

It's amazing what you can chain together in WaveLab, to sculpt the sound. I love WaveLab, but dammit... I want to see my plugins!!

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Re: PLUGINS too often Random and Missing

Post by PG » Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:29 am

If you click once on this button, while pressing Control (Command on Mac)
2018-03-03_08-22-11.png
(15.26 KiB) Not downloaded yet
then the file browser will open and selects the file where WaveLab stores the information about the plugins.
This is the contents that decides if a plugin is recognized as such, or not (among other things).

You might edit this file with a text editor, thought this not recommended, because each time WaveLab sees a plugin change, this file will be updated.
You may try (without any guarantee) to change some items from:

PlugIn=0

to:

PlugIn=1

However, some other info may be missing.

In theory, it is possible to copy entries from one system where the settings are correct (eg. you have another computer where you don't have the problem, and have (some of) the same installed plugins.
Philippe

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Re: PLUGINS too often Random and Missing

Post by cefshah » Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:46 am

PG wrote:
Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:29 am
If you click once on this button, while pressing Control (Command on Mac)
2018-03-03_08-22-11.png
then the file browser will open and selects the file where WaveLab stores the information about the plugins.
This is the contents that decides if a plugin is recognized as such, or not (among other things).

You might edit this file with a text editor, thought this not recommended, because each time WaveLab sees a plugin change, this file will be updated.
You may try (without any guarantee) to change some items from:

PlugIn=0

to:

PlugIn=1

However, some other info may be missing.

In theory, it is possible to copy entries from one system where the settings are correct (eg. you have another computer where you don't have the problem, and have (some of) the same installed plugins.
Thanks for the idea!!

I found the files as you suggested. I edited one of them, and it did not help; when I restarted WaveLab, it did immediately revert to it's previous value ("0").

I didn't want to try more, as I'm sure I could (most likely) make something worse. :)

I'm curious as to what might happen, if I removed ALL VST's from my PC and reduced the overall numbers, to only those I deem essential. That is, I wonder if there is a limit to how many actual plugins WaveLab can handle effectively.

And I WISH that whatever it is that Cubase 9.5 does to handle all those things effectively, I could just do the same for WaveLab. But I'm certain THAT is way above my knowledge level. :(

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Re: PLUGINS too often Random and Missing

Post by cefshah » Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:56 am

For the heck of it, I did a Google search to find more info, and found the exact same problem (from 2016):

viewtopic.php?t=92205

Anyone know of a reliable 3rd Party Plugin manager that could provide a work-around for this issue?

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Re: PLUGINS too often Random and Missing

Post by PG » Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:08 am

I found the files as you suggested. I edited one of them, and it did not help; when I restarted WaveLab, it did immediately revert to it's previous value ("0").
If this is the case, this is because the plugin was revaluated. Try again, because this should not happen. WaveLab reevaluate a plugin only if its date, name or size has changed.
I'm curious as to what might happen, if I removed ALL VST's from my PC and reduced the overall numbers, to only those I deem essential. That is, I wonder if there is a limit to how many actual plugins WaveLab can handle effectively.
Would not help. There is no limit.

When scanning plugins, WaveLab writes, reads, erases many small files in this location:
AppData\Roaming\Steinberg\WaveLab Pro 9.5\Cache\PluginLogs\
There is a timing issue involved in this process. You then may try another location for the preferences. Even temporarily. But preferably on another partition (you could even try a usb stick).
For example, set like this:
2018-03-03_10-06-36.png
(31.94 KiB) Not downloaded yet
When you start again, you will start with new preferences, and a new plugin-xxx.txt file will be created.
If this is successful, then revert to the standard preference path, but copy the good plugin-xxx.txt there (and keep a backup of it!).
Philippe

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Re: PLUGINS too often Random and Missing

Post by cefshah » Sun Mar 04, 2018 6:18 am

PG wrote:
Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:08 am
I found the files as you suggested. I edited one of them, and it did not help; when I restarted WaveLab, it did immediately revert to it's previous value ("0").
If this is the case, this is because the plugin was revaluated...
Philippe, thanks for trying to help.

This is aimed at "Steinberg":

I've been seeing this behavior since WaveLab 8.5 (about the time I came back to WaveLab, from Sound Forge).

I'm done with this. NO MORE!! (I'm just a artist/musician, not a program tech.)

I see ZERO REASON WHY I need to even try to fix a problem such as this, as a user. THE software company that can make this WORK SO WELL in CUBASE (for years), OUGHT to be capable of reading about these problems and addressing them. With a simple Google search, I found someone using WaveLab 8.5 addressing nearly the same exact problem!!!

No other programs that use VST's (instruments/effects) in my studio have had this problem.

Virtually EVERY time I command WaveLab to SCAN ALL of the PLUGINS... it comes back with a DIFFERENT SET AVAILABLE (to include different ones missing at random).

I just wish that I could get my money back, or a real solution.

STEINBERG PLEASE!!!! I'm only with you at this point for CUBASE!!! Screw that up and I'M GONE!!!

I have submitted a formal tech support request... and I really do hope to hear from you (even soon).

Anyway... BACK TO "Sound Forge" for me. I've wasted WAY TOO MUCH TIME in WaveLab, trying to figure out where the HELL my plugins keep disappearing to (at random times). :(
Last edited by cefshah on Sun Mar 04, 2018 7:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: PLUGINS too often Random and Missing

Post by studioarcade » Sun Mar 04, 2018 6:46 am

I too will echo this. With the new update I now have new plugins that are missing that previously worked fine so moving to 64bit has not changed things for me at least in the sense of better scanning of plugins. On the plus side, some previous plugins that were previously ignored are now opening fine so there is that... :)

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Re: PLUGINS too often Random and Missing

Post by cefshah » Sun Mar 04, 2018 7:38 am

studioarcade wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 6:46 am
I too will echo this. With the new update I now have new plugins that are missing that previously worked fine so moving to 64bit has not changed things for me at least in the sense of better scanning of plugins. On the plus side, some previous plugins that were previously ignored are now opening fine so there is that... :)
I can't believe that Cubase 9.5 is like a plugin 'archive'; it finds and makes available virtually any 64 bit plugin I've loaded.

I'm WAY beyond angry that WaveLab cannot perform to that level... after all this time. :(

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Re: PLUGINS too often Random and Missing

Post by PG » Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:14 am

There is one easy thing you can try:

Open the text file: C:\Users\[UserName]\AppData\Roaming\Steinberg\WaveLab Pro 9.5\Startup.ini

and add the entry:

PlugScan=1

By default (no PlugScan, or PlugScan = 0), WaveLab runs a separate small application, to evaluate each plugin. If the plugin crashes, WaveLab does not crash. This is the security layer. Maybe this system has a compatibility problem on your system.

However, if PlugScan=1 then WaveLab tries to load the plugins directly. If the plugins are safe, no problem, and the scanning is even faster.
But if a plugin fails, WaveLab might not load (and you have to revert to PlugScan=0).

Though this is not the recommended method, you might try it.

Once a successful scan has been done, none is performed again until a plugin change is detected, and then, only this plugin is evaluated.
Philippe

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Re: PLUGINS too often Random and Missing

Post by Rat » Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:52 am

Are you running Bit Defender internet security by chance?
Regards

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WaveLab 9.5 Pro current release, ProTools, iLok, DMG (Dave Gamble), Sony Oxford, Weiss, Class A Solid State and Custom Stuff

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Re: PLUGINS too often Random and Missing

Post by cefshah » Sun Mar 04, 2018 9:36 am

Rat wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:52 am
Are you running Bit Defender internet security by chance?
No, I'm not running that program.

(Note: All of these plugins have run before in Cubase AND WaveLab. However in WaveLab... their availability comes/goes randomly. In Cubase... they are ALWAYS there to use. Both Cubase and WaveLab share the same plugin directory).

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