VST plug-ins problem in Cubase Studio 5, 64bit

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VST plug-ins problem in Cubase Studio 5, 64bit

Post by Santuzzo »

Hi,

I just recently purchased and installed Cubase Studio 5, 64bit.
I use both 64bit as well as 32 bit plug-ins.

So far I was able to open all of them (Superior Drummer, EZDrummer, Addictive Drums), until installing Trilogy (32bit) And Trilian (64bit).
Now Cubase 5 freezes when I try to open Addictive Drums or Sample Tank (both are 32 bit plug-ins) and it does not even recognize Trilogy (it does not appear on the VST instruments list, but the path is set correctly!)
Also, sometimes when trying to open Cubase 5, it won't even open but gets stuck on the loading screen and it says 'initializing VST 2.x Plugin -> Trilogy'. (co-incidentally or not, this is the 32 bit plugin that does not appear on the VST list).

Something is apparently going wrong here, I hope someone from the Steinberg support can help me.

The problem is definitely a Cubase issue, NOT the plugins, since I am able to open them in my old Cubase ES 4.

Thanks,
Lars

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Re: VST plug-ins problem in Cubase Studio 5, 64bit

Post by crypticmystic »

I'm not sure this helps, but I sympathize. I've found, so far, that 32 bit plugs sometimes work and sometimes don't with my 64 bit 5.5.2 setup.. I have both 32 and 64 versions of all my Native Instrument plugin, and the 32 bit ones cause problems (using 50%+ of the cpu and spiking to more) for *one* plugin, but using only the 64 bit plugs works fine..

I am concerned that that 64 bit version doesn't mix well with 32 bit plug-ins.. I'm well aware of the technical issues - being a computer engineer and running both 32 and 64 bit machines here in my studio and home office.. My gut feeling, despite *Steinberg* claims, is that 32 plugins don't necessarily work well with 64 bit cubase, and there's a 50/50 chance that its the plug ins compatibility with 5.5.2.. If they worked in cubase 4 (and mine work with cubase 3) then I think both those versions are 32 bit...

So I'm how one approaches this, from a cubase point of view.. It would be helpful to be able to run the 32 bit and the 64 bit versions on the same machine (for testing and validation purposes), but I'll admit I'm afraid to attempt this, fearing that license or some other overlapping common directories issue will then cause niether version to work..

Can some one who knows better comment?
Steve
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Re: VST plug-ins problem in Cubase Studio 5, 64bit

Post by crypticmystic »

I just noticed a somewhat relevant thread also:

It appears there is a utility that might make the 32 <-> 64 bit translation more reliable? I have tried it, but just thought I'd reference it here..

http://www.steinberg.net/forum/viewtopi ... =19&t=1274
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Re: VST plug-ins problem in Cubase Studio 5, 64bit

Post by Santuzzo »

Hi Steve,

Thank you very much for your reply.

Yes, I have read about the jBridge, but I haven't purchased it (yet), not sure if I will.

Apparently I will have to live with the fact that my 32bit plug-ins just won't work in a stable manner on my Cubase Studio 5 64bit. In general, this would be acceptable to me, somehow I probably was naive to expect the bit-bridge to work flawlessly.
Since I sitll have my 32bit Cubase Essential 4, I can use 32bit plig-ins from there, so that would be a workaround solution for the time being. (in the hope that the 3rd parties will soon publish 64-bit versions of their plug-ins).
I have read on other threads (on the old forum) about others having similar issues, so this does seem to be a general problem, I can understand that.
If officially SB will say that this is the case, I will accept that and stick with only 64bit plug-ins on my Cubase 5 and use the 32 bit ones in my Cubase ES 4.

But the issue is that now I have installed all my plugins to the same folder, I think this will cauue problems, right?
Will I have to have seperate VST instrument folders for 32bit plug-ins and 64bit plug-ins?
In that case, I will have to un-install and re-install my plug-ins, setting the new folder for where to drop the .dll file. Is that correct?
Does anybody know if then it would be sufficient to only un- and re-install the plug-in software of say a sound-library plug-in, or would I also have to un- and re-install all the sounds? This would become quite an elaborous taks with some of my plugins having up to 30GB of sound data.

Any kind of help would be very much appreciated.

Thanks,
Lars

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Re: VST plug-ins problem in Cubase Studio 5, 64bit

Post by MrSoundman »

The general opinion seems to be that C5 x64 is simply still not a reliable solution, but it has gotten better with version 5.5.2 and there are some workarounds.

Remember that you can have both the 32-bit and 64-bit versions of Cubase 5 installed on the same machine.

You can also keep your 32-bit and 64-bit plugins seperated in different folders. Have a look here for some suggestions:
http://www.steinberg.net/forum/viewtopi ... =19&t=1276
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Re: VST plug-ins problem in Cubase Studio 5, 64bit

Post by Santuzzo »

MrSoundman wrote:The general opinion seems to be that C5 x64 is simply still not a reliable solution, but it has gotten better with version 5.5.2 and there are some workarounds.

Remember that you can have both the 32-bit and 64-bit versions of Cubase 5 installed on the same machine.

You can also keep your 32-bit and 64-bit plugins seperated in different folders. Have a look here for some suggestions:
http://www.steinberg.net/forum/viewtopi ... =19&t=1276
Thank you very much!

Well, it is strange, today I tried again and I was able to load all of my 32 bit plugins in Cubase 5 64bit.
That said, I haven't really tested how stable they run when working on a project.

For me it is pretty simple: if the bridge works fine, I will use my 32 bit plug ins in C5 64bit, if not, I still have Cubase ES 4 installed (32bit).
Can I really have BOTH Cubase Studio 5 64 and Cubase Studio 5 32it installed at the same time with the same license? Even if I bought the upgrade form Essential 4 version?

My problem with regard to the plugin-location is not so much that I can't tell one from the other, but more an issue of organization:
If I decide to not use any 32bit plugins in Cubase Stuio 5 64bit, then it will be better to have my 64 bit plugins in one folder and point C5 to that path and have my 32bit plugins in another folder and point my Cubase ES4 to that path.
That way I won't even have any plug ins that are not compatible showing up on the VST list in Cubase.

But the HOW TO DO THIS is my next question: I know I cannot manually move nor copy .dll's , so I will have to un-install and re-install plugins, is that correct?
And will it be ok to only do that with the particular plugin software and leave its sound sample library installed the way it is?
That is my main question at this point.

Thanks,
Lars

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Re: VST plug-ins problem in Cubase Studio 5, 64bit

Post by MrSoundman »

Santuzzo wrote:Can I really have BOTH Cubase Studio 5 64 and Cubase Studio 5 32it installed at the same time with the same license?
Absolutely. The 32- and 64-bit versions are regarded as the same product.

As for plugin organisation, most installers allow you to choose where to place the DLLs, and for those without installers you can just move/copy them as you wish. I would suggest the following (based on a clean install of Windows and both 32- and 64-bit Cubase:

Create a folder for 32-bit plugins, run the 32-bit version of Cubase, and add that folder (via the Devices menu, Plug-in information, VST 2.x Plug-in Paths). Quit Cubase -- you can't run both simultaneously!

Create a folder for 64-bit plugins, run the 64-bit version of Cubase and repeat the process.

Now run your plugin installers. Most well-behaved installers understand that people want to choose where to install to select the folders you created accordingly. Don't forget that on Windows x64 theres a "Program Files (x86)" folder for all legacy software and inside that you'll find Steinberg\VSTPlugins which is the default location for 32-bit plugins, and a "Program Files" (note: no x86) folder for 64-bit stuff.
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Re: VST plug-ins problem in Cubase Studio 5, 64bit

Post by crypticmystic »

Remember that you can have both the 32-bit and 64-bit versions of Cubase 5 installed on the same machine.
Is this is so, then I'm inclined to set up exactly this..

I'll search around to see if there are any tidbits to this.. The trick, I suppose will be keeping track of vst folders and what's 32/64 bits...
Steve
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Re: VST plug-ins problem in Cubase Studio 5, 64bit

Post by MrSoundman »

VST2 plugins can be arranged in folder hierarchies so if there were some 32-bit VST2 plugins that you know work in x64 and you want to use them both in 32-bit and 64-bit Cubase, you could create a subfolder in your 32-bit plugins folder and just add that subfolder to the list of VST2.x plugin paths in x64.

Finally, don't forget that for most simple VST2 plugins you can just copy the DLLs -- one copy in the x86 folder and one copy in the x64 folder. That might help avoid the situation where you don't want to load all the 32-bit plugins in x64 just because one or two are needed.

The possibilities are endless.
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Re: VST plug-ins problem in Cubase Studio 5, 64bit

Post by lights »

X64 Cubase is rock solid (as far as VSTs go) when you're running all x64 plugs. JBridge makes x86 plugs almost as reliable. It's really great. And cheap.

Very happy with my x64 setup.
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Re: VST plug-ins problem in Cubase Studio 5, 64bit

Post by MrSoundman »

lights wrote:X64 Cubase is rock solid (as far as VSTs go) when you're running all x64 plugs.
Agreed, that's been my experience as well, but I have to admit don't have a need to run an enormous amount of plugins and those that I do all have stable x64 versions .... HALion Symphonic Orchestra 1.5, Kontakt 4, Guitar Rig 4, AAS String Studio VS-1. There's even a 64-bit version of Crystal now!
lights wrote:JBridge makes x86 plugs almost as reliable. It's really great. And cheap.
I've only got one 32-bit plugin that gave me problems up to C5.1.1 and that was largely solved by 5.5.2. It appears C5x64 didn't handle 32-bit plugins written in Delphi until 5.5.2 but there are still a few niggles. It's not that I wouldn't pay the small fee requested for JBridge, I was just hoping I could get away with a "pure" (or almost pure) 64-bit environment.

I do have both 32-bit and 64-bit versions of Cubase 5 installed though, and even though I spend most of my time in x64 these days, I'm don't foresee a day any time soon that I won't want the 32-bit version there "just in case".

There is absolutely no downside to having both versions installed by the way, apart from a bit more disk space being used. I would generally recommend installing 32-bit Cubase first, and only installing the 64-bit version of Cubase if you actually have more than 4GB physical RAM in the PC and you know for certain that you need it (i.e., you need more than 4GB of RAM for projects and you have actually had a project fail because it didn't have enough). Running 32-bit Cubase on Windows 7 x64 already gives you a chunk more usable RAM than you would have on a 32-bit OS, and it's also equally rock solid.
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Re: VST plug-ins problem in Cubase Studio 5, 64bit

Post by Santuzzo »

MrSoundman wrote:
Santuzzo wrote:Can I really have BOTH Cubase Studio 5 64 and Cubase Studio 5 32it installed at the same time with the same license?
Absolutely. The 32- and 64-bit versions are regarded as the same product.

As for plugin organisation, most installers allow you to choose where to place the DLLs, and for those without installers you can just move/copy them as you wish. I would suggest the following (based on a clean install of Windows and both 32- and 64-bit Cubase:

Create a folder for 32-bit plugins, run the 32-bit version of Cubase, and add that folder (via the Devices menu, Plug-in information, VST 2.x Plug-in Paths). Quit Cubase -- you can't run both simultaneously!

Create a folder for 64-bit plugins, run the 64-bit version of Cubase and repeat the process.

Now run your plugin installers. Most well-behaved installers understand that people want to choose where to install to select the folders you created accordingly. Don't forget that on Windows x64 theres a "Program Files (x86)" folder for all legacy software and inside that you'll find Steinberg\VSTPlugins which is the default location for 32-bit plugins, and a "Program Files" (note: no x86) folder for 64-bit stuff.
Thank you very much !

I understand the procedure you describe, but my problem is that I already have my plug ins installed into one general VST folder, so I have to either uninstall and re-install or (in some cases this might work) move the dll's manually into a new folder.

Right now for a 32bit system I still have my Cubase Essential 4 installed which works fine with me.
I never found it limiting in any way other than the RAM limitations, I had it crash several times when loading Toontrack drum sample libraries. That was my main reason for upgrading to a 64bit system.

I have not even installed the Cubase Studio 5.5 update yet, and I hear people saying that the bitbridge has been improved in the latest update.

My plan is this:

I will test my set up and see how stable my 32bit plugins run in Cubase Studio 64bit with bitbridge, and if all works well, I will probably keep all my plugins in the same general VST folder and not worry about it.
If, this is not stable, I will give the jBridge a try, if that works well, then same thing, I will keep using my 32bit plugins in Cubase 64bit and not worry about moving dll files into different folders.

If, however, I see that some 32bit plugins won't run as stable as I want them to, and I feel I need to use thme in Cuabse ES 4 (32 bit), then I will probably change my VST folders. Eventhough, it's only a matter of organization, I'm a bit of a organizing freak, and I want all the plugins to be tidy in the right folders, eventhough like it is now (with all of them, ie 32bit and 64 bit ones, in one general VST folder) does not have any effects on their functionality.
But for me it's like this: if I know I won't use certain 32bit plugins in Cubase 64 bit, then I'd prefer for them not to be on the plug-in list.

Does that make any sense? Sound like a good plan?

Thanks,
Lars

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Re: VST plug-ins problem in Cubase Studio 5, 64bit

Post by Oscat »

5.52 bridge is better than it used to be, but not as an effective solution as jbridge especially as far as latency is concerned, it has a "performance mode" option which really helps with some plugins.
Try the demo on one of the 32 bit plugins your having issues with, I do not use Cubase bridge on any of my third party plugins and I have a few, they are all jbridged and work well.
The developer is contactable and very proactive in helping, for the amount spent it is service beyond the call of duty.
http://jstuff.wordpress.com/jbridge
http://jstuff.wordpress.com/jbridge/jbr ... eshooting/

http://forum.cubase.net/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=137092 my post at end is now fixed in ver 1.27
http://forum.cubase.net/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=143085
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Re: VST plug-ins problem in Cubase Studio 5, 64bit

Post by Santuzzo »

So I just installed the latest update 5.5.2. and now I can't load Addictive Drums in Cubase Studio 5 64bit anymore.
So far to me it seems the update made things worse.

I'm starting to get very frustrated with Cubase......

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Re: VST plug-ins problem in Cubase Studio 5, 64bit

Post by Oscat »

The Cubase bridge can be frustrating, the old site has plenty about it.
If a plugin wont work bridged then it not going to work unless
1. you go back to 32 bit Cubase ---- and use jbridge for your 64 bit plugins or
2. Use 64 bit Cubase ------- and use jbridge for problem 32 bit vsts or preferably all your 32 bit plugins.

Search google with "Cubase.net" and "Jbridge" etc ---- there is plenty about it.
Hope it helps.
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Re: VST plug-ins problem in Cubase Studio 5, 64bit

Post by Santuzzo »

Thank you !

Well, my experience has been different, like one day it works bridged and the next it wont. That's what is so weird.
Now it looks like some plug-ins worked with the bit bridge BEFORE I updated to 5.5.2, but after the update they don't work anymore. I thought the update was supposed to improve things......

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Re: VST plug-ins problem in Cubase Studio 5, 64bit

Post by Oscat »

It has improved things but it still not as I would want it to be, it can be unstable --- use jbridge and see if it improves things, you could also try to reinstall the update if problem persists.
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Re: VST plug-ins problem in Cubase Studio 5, 64bit

Post by Suprawill1 »

I didn't read through all the posts but if it wasn't mentioned, make sure you don't use a general folder for all your 32 bit plugs to be shared by both Cubase versions. Cubase 32 should have it's own folder of 32 bit plugs and Cubase 64 should have another. Otherwise, problems "will" develop.
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Re: VST plug-ins problem in Cubase Studio 5, 64bit

Post by JohnOnKeyz »

Santuzzo wrote:Thank you !
Well, my experience has been different, like one day it works bridged and the next it wont. That's what is so weird.
Now it looks like some plug-ins worked with the bit bridge BEFORE I updated to 5.5.2, but after the update they don't work anymore. I thought the update was supposed to improve things......
Seriously, spend the few dollars and get JBridge. My entire system is 64 Bit now. I have even removed the VSTBridge component physically because I don't want it anywhere near my Cubase app. I know the performance issues and crashes you are talking about, I have gone through them myself, and I also delayed in getting JBridge. But after you get your 32 bit plugs bridged through it correctly, stability is as good as the 64 Bit plugins, and system performance is very close.

I have about 15 bridged plugins (if you include Waves as a single plug), and everything is rock solid even under heavy loads. I don't need to, want to and have no reason to go back to 32 bit.
John
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Re: VST plug-ins problem in Cubase Studio 5, 64bit

Post by Santuzzo »

Suprawill1 wrote:I didn't read through all the posts but if it wasn't mentioned, make sure you don't use a general folder for all your 32 bit plugs to be shared by both Cubase versions. Cubase 32 should have it's own folder of 32 bit plugs and Cubase 64 should have another. Otherwise, problems "will" develop.
Thanks !

This is where I made a mistake. I have one general VST folder with all my plug-ins and only a 32bit and 64bit subfolder for plugins that come in a 32 bit and 64 bit version.

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Re: VST plug-ins problem in Cubase Studio 5, 64bit

Post by Santuzzo »

JohnOnKeyz wrote:
Santuzzo wrote:Thank you !
Well, my experience has been different, like one day it works bridged and the next it wont. That's what is so weird.
Now it looks like some plug-ins worked with the bit bridge BEFORE I updated to 5.5.2, but after the update they don't work anymore. I thought the update was supposed to improve things......
Seriously, spend the few dollars and get JBridge. My entire system is 64 Bit now. I have even removed the VSTBridge component physically because I don't want it anywhere near my Cubase app. I know the performance issues and crashes you are talking about, I have gone through them myself, and I also delayed in getting JBridge. But after you get your 32 bit plugs bridged through it correctly, stability is as good as the 64 Bit plugins, and system performance is very close.

I have about 15 bridged plugins (if you include Waves as a single plug), and everything is rock solid even under heavy loads. I don't need to, want to and have no reason to go back to 32 bit.
Thank you !
Yes, I will get the jBridge, it's very cheap, too.
Still somewhat disappointing that Steinberg has not been able to improve their VST bridge to function better.

You said you de-installed the VST bridge. How did you do that?

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Re: VST plug-ins problem in Cubase Studio 5, 64bit

Post by Oscat »

Suprawill1 wrote:I didn't read through all the posts but if it wasn't mentioned, make sure you don't use a general folder for all your 32 bit plugs to be shared by both Cubase versions. Cubase 32 should have it's own folder of 32 bit plugs and Cubase 64 should have another. Otherwise, problems "will" develop.
Don't disagree with this in principal, but I have all my 32bit plugins where they should be in C:\Program Files (x86)\Steinberg\VstPlugins
I also made folder C:\Program Files\Jbridge Extension for extensions made in the bridging process and this is where you point Cubase 64, do not point it at 32 bit Vst folder as this will cause problems.
My 64bit plugs are in C:\Program Files\Steinberg\Cubase 5\VSTPlugins.

Jbridge puts a file for each plugin C:\Program Files (x86)\Steinberg\VstPlugins.
I have not had any problems myself, but that may be down to plugins and how I use it, I can open projects in both and seem to work and exchange between 32 bit and 64 bit without problems.

You do not need to remove Cubase bridge, just don't use it.
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Re: VST plug-ins problem in Cubase Studio 5, 64bit

Post by JohnOnKeyz »

Santuzzo wrote:You said you de-installed the VST bridge. How did you do that?
Oscat wrote:You do not need to remove Cubase bridge, just don't use it.
@Santuzzo,
Regarding the VSTBridgeApp, what you decide is up to you. I couldn't tell you for sure whether it saps any performance or not if it's just sitting there. It was for my own peace of mind that I removed it.

If you choose to remove it there is no uninstallation needed.
Just go to ~\Program Files\Steinberg\Cubase 5\components and the file is called VSTBridgeApp.exe
Just cut it and paste to another folder to store it. (Do it while Cubase is not running, and make sure to update your plugin information after you restart Cubase). You should note that it will disable a small handful of the Cubase plugins that still run in 32 bit, like the DeEsser, the Tonic Filter, the VSTi's Embracer and Monologue. Maybe a couple others that I haven't found. I never use these anyway but you should know that just in case you do.

Cheers!
John
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Re: VST plug-ins problem in Cubase Studio 5, 64bit

Post by Santuzzo »

Thanks !

I did some testing yesterday, and my main 32bit plugins (Sample Tank and Addictive Drums) worked fine through the VST brigde, ie I was able to open them without any problems and I had no crash whatsoever.
BUT: I noticed a lot or crackling noise when I recorded audio signals (guitar) which leadsm e to think the CPU load must have been heavy. In the same set-up (working on the same project with the same plugins and amount of tracks) ran on my Cubase Essential 4 32bit version I never had crackling noises, so that makes me think the VST bridge must be taking a big CPU load.
Would that make any sense?
Has anybody of you had similar experience with the VST bridge?

I find this a bit strange since I have a rather powerful PC (i7 processor) and I did not run that many plugins at all.

Is this normal that the VST bridge could cause crackling on a powerful PC?

Is the jBridge lighter on the CPU?

Lars

JohnOnKeyz
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Re: VST plug-ins problem in Cubase Studio 5, 64bit

Post by JohnOnKeyz »

Santuzzo wrote:Is the jBridge lighter on the CPU?

Lars
Hugely! Plus JBridge runs each plugin in its own memory space while the VSTBridge runs all 32 bit plugins in a single memory space. The maximum is about 4 gigs I believe.

João is extremely helpful and you can email him with questions as well.
http://jstuff.wordpress.com/contact/

Whatever you do, definitely keep working at it though. 64 Bit is stable and great to work with (better than 32 bit IMO) but it takes some tweaking to get there.
John
(Maryland, USA)
~~~ the Aftereffekt ~~~ - - - - - | | | - - - - - ~~~ Slyd Studios ~~~

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