Logic of the glissando on tied notes

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MiKiEs
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Logic of the glissando on tied notes

Post by MiKiEs »

Hi, am I missing something, or there is a hidden rules in engraving for placement of glissando on tied notes. Refer to picture:
Glissando on tied notes.png
(13.14 KiB) Not downloaded yet
The middle staff version is clear positioning on the beginning of onset.
But the upper one glissando starts somewhere in the middle (both dorico and sibelius do that)
It seems that in relation to onset position for the glissando start the lower one is correct – glissando starts exactly on onset, the same as in middle staff versions within bar, just biased two quarters later.

Why engraving programs are stick with that incorrect version? Always additional work is needed to correct that mistake.

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Derrek
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Re: Logic of the glissando on tied notes

Post by Derrek »

Does the correct notation depend on what you want the gliss to sound like. In some cases one wants it to start at the beginning of the note; in other cases one wants the gliss to start after the note has been held for a while. Certainly the program should ultimately let one choose to do either if it does not now do so.
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MiKiEs
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Re: Logic of the glissando on tied notes

Post by MiKiEs »

Principally, if glissando starts somewhere in the middle, it should not be tied at that point to previous onset (that should be new onset to start glissando, according to definition), but yes, program should allow to adjust rhythmical position, where composer thinks it should be. Looking forward for such options in dorico.

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Claude Lapalme
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Re: Logic of the glissando on tied notes

Post by Claude Lapalme »

First off, I agree that a choice would be a wonderful in this matter. In terms of work around, I feel that the best one is not to move the gliss in engrave mode (since its position may change as the layout changes) but to write the last note of the tie in another voice, hide the rests, gliss the first and last note after selecting them, and then tie the first two after selecting them. Then the gliss remains solidly in place. As you say though: additional work ... But this is the kind detail that I'm certain Dorico has on its radar.
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MiKiEs
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Re: Logic of the glissando on tied notes

Post by MiKiEs »

Claude, good workaround. Thanks

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Jazzisfaction
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Re: Logic of the glissando on tied notes

Post by Jazzisfaction »

I'm in a very slow tempo.
I don't want that my glissando starts at the very beginning of my quarter note but in the second half of it. So I'm writing 2 eights notes, tie them and want the glissando to start on the 2nd eight note. But the tie kills the glissando.
Bildschirmfoto 2020-11-06 um 11.35.48.png
(6.14 KiB) Not downloaded yet
Bildschirmfoto 2020-11-06 um 11.35.39.png
(6.12 KiB) Not downloaded yet
Yes, I could:
1) write 2 eights notes,
2) connect them with a slur in place of a tie,
3) 'suppress playback' of the first 8th note
4) connect the 2nd 8th note with the glissando
5) create a quarter note in a second voice on the same pitch and let it play back
what a workaround !
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Lillie Harris
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Re: Logic of the glissando on tied notes

Post by Lillie Harris »

Peer, tie-ing notes does unfortunately remove any glissando on subsequent notes, because technically that note doesn't exist anymore: the preceding note has absorbed it. If you re-input a glissando starting from the tied notes, it should appear as expected starting from the 2nd quaver of the tied pair.

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Jazzisfaction
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Re: Logic of the glissando on tied notes

Post by Jazzisfaction »

Haaaa.....Lillie, you saved my day !
Indeed that works.
So:
glissando and then tying: No
tying and then glissando: Yes :D

THANK YOU !!!
Peer Baierlein
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Lillie Harris
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Re: Logic of the glissando on tied notes

Post by Lillie Harris »

You're welcome - Dorico always displays glissandi starting from the last notehead in a tie chain. So as you correctly did already, if you want to specify from which point a glissando starts during a tie chain, and that division isn't already shown automatically, you need to use Force Duration to get divisions in the tie chain right, then input the glissando.

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