FOLD option on MIDI editor - Cubase 10.5 - POLL (make your vote)

All feature requests and suggestions for upcoming releases of Cubase Pro 9, Cubase Artist 9 and Cubase Elements 9 can be posted here.

Do You find FOLD as an useful tool for a New Cubase 10 feature ?

Poll runs till Sun Aug 18, 2019 1:33 am

YES I FIND THIS VERY USEFUL
16
59%
IS NOT OF MY INTEREST
9
33%
I'M NEUTRAL
2
7%
 
Total votes: 27

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FOLD option on MIDI editor - Cubase 10.5 - POLL (make your vote)

Post by nordlead26 » Tue May 29, 2018 3:38 pm

EDIT 18/aug/2018: added images and gif to improve the "fold" info/ proposal

Great helper to compose melodies

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyiNQa0rZnQ


Lets talk about what FOLD can do for your workflow

sometimes we are better writing in some scale or another, lets say we are good in C but we want to write on G, as some of you may know, you can write a guide chord first, and then you can transpose it to the wished note (G) so there you can see with your chord guide where to place the notes to start the composition in the wished scale...

So FOLD, what it does, is to colapse/hide all the Rows/lines without MIDI notes, and only showing us the ones you want to work for... an example can be: F, G, A#, D, F, G A, and that are the only notes you will see in the MIDI editor when you FOLD, its indeed a great helper and the task to compose in a scale you dont know very well, becomes really easy

-

Image

Image

Image
Last edited by nordlead26 on Thu Nov 15, 2018 7:28 am, edited 12 times in total.
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Re: Fold option - great to compose melodies - Piano Roll - like ableton live

Post by nordlead26 » Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:22 pm

Bump!! you cant imagine how marvelous is this option!
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Re: FOLD option on MIDI editor - Cubase 10 - POLL (make your vote)

Post by -steve- » Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:39 pm

fyi- There are only a few months before the release of Cubase 10, if Steinberg follows the same schedule they have in the past. So unless they are already adding it, it will not be in C10. I mention this only to set the expectation of people who respond to this poll
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Re: FOLD option on MIDI editor - Cubase 10 - POLL (make your vote)

Post by -steve- » Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:44 pm

So FOLD, what it does, is to colapse/hide all the Rows/lines without MIDI notes, and only showing us the ones you want to work for... an example can be: F, G, A#, D, F, G A, and that are the only notes you will see in the MIDI editor when you FOLD, its indeed a great helper and the task to compose in a scale you dont know very well, becomes really easy
but doesn't fold show only the notes that are already in the editor? What if you only have 6 of the 7 notes in your scale already in there?
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Re: FOLD option on MIDI editor - Cubase 10 - POLL (make your vote)

Post by KHS » Sat Aug 18, 2018 7:17 pm

It would actually be better to have the option to highlight a specific scale in the key editor.
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Re: FOLD option on MIDI editor - Cubase 10 - POLL (make your vote)

Post by raino » Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:19 pm

-steve- wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:44 pm
So FOLD, what it does, is to colapse/hide all the Rows/lines without MIDI notes, and only showing us the ones you want to work for... an example can be: F, G, A#, D, F, G A, and that are the only notes you will see in the MIDI editor when you FOLD, its indeed a great helper and the task to compose in a scale you dont know very well, becomes really easy
but doesn't fold show only the notes that are already in the editor? What if you only have 6 of the 7 notes in your scale already in there?
Same issue as using the Drum Editor set to only show drums that have hits on them. The way I get around that is to put a hit on beat 1 for every drum. Then I mute all of them (except any actual hits I want to hear).
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Re: FOLD option on MIDI editor - Cubase 10 - POLL (make your vote)

Post by nordlead26 » Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:13 am

KHS wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 7:17 pm
It would actually be better to have the option to highlight a specific scale in the key editor.
I don't get you... fold is best than just highlight, it show you the specific scale you are working on, avoiding the rest of the notes...



-steve- wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:44 pm
So FOLD, what it does, is to colapse/hide all the Rows/lines without MIDI notes, and only showing us the ones you want to work for... an example can be: F, G, A#, D, F, G A, and that are the only notes you will see in the MIDI editor when you FOLD, its indeed a great helper and the task to compose in a scale you dont know very well, becomes really easy
but doesn't fold show only the notes that are already in the editor? What if you only have 6 of the 7 notes in your scale already in there?
Im not sure Ive understand your question, but fold is per MIDI track, works individually, if you have only 6 notes of the scale then you will see only those 6 notes, that chord you see at the left in the image, is out of the grid (I added by myself) and you can add or delete the notes you want to keep only the ones you need... if you want to add more, you can click the fold button at the left to unfold (I mean in Ableton) and you can see the normal piano midi editor, you can fold and unfold instantaneously, this is not a complex process is just a option/view in the editor

I guess with 6 notes you mean this?

Image


4 notes
Image


3 notes without a chord helper at the left
Image


this is also helpful when working with a drum pad like groove agent, I can say is also a comfortable view helper
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Re: FOLD option on MIDI editor - Cubase 10 - POLL (make your vote)

Post by peakae » Sun Aug 19, 2018 8:42 am

KHS wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 7:17 pm
It would actually be better to have the option to highlight a specific scale in the key editor.
So as you can do now when using an additional Chord Track, like the idea.
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Re: FOLD option on MIDI editor - Cubase 10 - POLL (make your vote)

Post by -steve- » Sun Aug 19, 2018 10:18 am

nordlead26 wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:13 am
Im not sure Ive understand your question, but fold is per MIDI track, works individually, if you have only 6 notes of the scale then you will see only those 6 notes,
You didn't understand. All fold does is to limit the display so that it shows only those notes that are already present in the editor. It's useful, but not for displaying modes, unless you do the workaround raino mentioned of putting all the notes of the given mode in there and muting them, and then, you would still have to enter notes for every octave.

And, as mentioned also, Cubase already can colorize notes according to scales and chords.

So what I'm saying is that fold is not the right tool for helping you work with or learn modes, and also that there's a dedicated set of features in Cubase already for that.

Fold is useful for other reasons, of course.
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Re: FOLD option on MIDI editor - Cubase 10 - POLL (make your vote)

Post by KHS » Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:18 pm

nordlead26 wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:13 am
KHS wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 7:17 pm
It would actually be better to have the option to highlight a specific scale in the key editor.
I don't get you... fold is best than just highlight, it show you the specific scale you are working on, avoiding the rest of the notes...
Well, some of us are not always working just within the scale. When highlighting we can easily see the notes within the scale, which most of the notes will be, but yet having the option to create a note outside the scale when it's needed.
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Re: FOLD option on MIDI editor - Cubase 10 - POLL (make your vote)

Post by nordlead26 » Sun Aug 19, 2018 3:22 pm

KHS wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:18 pm
nordlead26 wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:13 am
KHS wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 7:17 pm
It would actually be better to have the option to highlight a specific scale in the key editor.
I don't get you... fold is best than just highlight, it show you the specific scale you are working on, avoiding the rest of the notes...
Well, some of us are not always working just within the scale. When highlighting we can easily see the notes within the scale, which most of the notes will be, but yet having the option to create a note outside the scale when it's needed.

seems like you feel "fold" as a limitation, but let me explain in a better way;

as this is not a complex process and is just a different option/view, it can be activated with a click and disabled with a click instantly as you can see at the top of the post in the gif, and of course you can add those notes outside the scales when its need it... fold definitely is not a limitation, fold is friendly, I know what highlight is, because I used in the past with other software which have this option, but when Ableton appeared with this fold option, in the beginning I didn't understanding, was like an alien, but once I was able to understand the possibilities, for me this was like bring highlight notes to the next level, the evolution. But of course could be nice to have both options... I don't think highlights and fold be a complex task for a developers like the ones on Steinberg...
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Re: FOLD option on MIDI editor - Cubase 10 - POLL (make your vote)

Post by KHS » Sun Aug 19, 2018 3:30 pm

I'm not voting against the fold feature, just saying I would rather have the highlight feature.
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Re: FOLD option on MIDI editor - Cubase 10 - POLL (make your vote)

Post by nordlead26 » Sun Aug 19, 2018 3:51 pm

KHS wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 3:30 pm
I'm not voting against the fold feature, just saying I would rather have the highlight feature.
hehe so I really hope you did tumbs up on the poll :) Im pretty sure they will considere highlights as well, I think we aren't the only ones asking for something like this...

-steve- wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 10:18 am

You didn't understand. All fold does is to limit the display so that it shows only those notes that are already present in the editor. It's useful, but not for displaying modes, unless you do the workaround raino mentioned of putting all the notes of the given mode in there and muting them, and then, you would still have to enter notes for every octave.

So what I'm saying is that fold is not the right tool for helping you work with or learn modes, and also that there's a dedicated set of features in Cubase already for that.
I have one question.... ¿Did you ever used fold in Ableton live? to say its a "limitation" and this about the need of "mute notes", I can assume you didn't... raino was near, but isn't necessary to mute notes. As you know in Cubase you can write a chord out of the grid (of the midi editor) its the case of Ableton live, cursor never gonna touch that chord when is placed there, and you can add on time to time more notes... so, you can add the octave, and you can do whatever you think "isn't" possible with fold. Definitely is not a limitation...

Image

unfolded:
Image

And, as mentioned also, Cubase already can colorize notes according to scales and chords.
an extra function never hurts... and its not "whichever" function, its indeed a greatest one... im not the great composer, but Ive used several times for composing orchestra, on where you know it can becomes in to a complex chords/scales/notation, as my work sometimes implies to make that kind of music...and this helped me a lot... but jumping from DAW to DAW, is not ideal hehe...
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Re: FOLD option on MIDI editor - Cubase 10 - POLL (make your vote)

Post by -steve- » Sun Aug 19, 2018 4:22 pm

Maybe something's getting lost in translation. I didn't say Fold was a limitation.
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Re: FOLD option on MIDI editor - Cubase 10 - POLL (make your vote)

Post by Centralmusic » Sun Aug 19, 2018 8:11 pm

My opinion:
this is only interesting for the drums with static pitch (!)
But unusable for instruments and key composing.

remark: we already have a great fold function for the drums in cubase... :idea:


https://steinberg.help/cubase_pro_artis ... lty_r.html

Show Drum Sounds with Events
Shows only the drum sounds for which events are available in the selected MIDI part.
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Re: FOLD option on MIDI editor - Cubase 10 - POLL (make your vote)

Post by nordlead26 » Sun Aug 19, 2018 8:30 pm

Centralmusic wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 8:11 pm

My opinion:
this is only interesting for the drums with static pitch (!)
But unusable for instruments and key composing.

Im in the need to make you 3 questions:


1 .- Im very curious, in which way you think this can be unusable for instruments and key composing and what are your fundaments to assuming this? Im very interested on read your points arguments in deep

2 .- did you ever tested fold in Ableton Live?

3 .- Are you really following the post and reading my points, or is just a fast reply to the title of the thread?

Image
nordlead26 wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 3:51 pm
an extra function never hurts... and its not "whichever" function, its indeed a greatest one... im not the great composer, but Ive used several times for composing orchestra, on where you know it can becomes in to a complex chords/scales/notation, as my work sometimes implies to make that kind of music...and this helped me a lot... but jumping from DAW to DAW, is not ideal hehe...
as a helper of course...
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Re: FOLD option on MIDI editor - Cubase 10 - POLL (make your vote)

Post by peakae » Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:21 pm

But isn't it most likely that such a "painting by numbers" feature would limit the creative part of the process of making music?
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Re: FOLD option on MIDI editor - Cubase 10 - POLL (make your vote)

Post by nordlead26 » Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:50 pm

peakae wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:21 pm
But isn't it most likely that such a "painting by numbers" feature would limit the creative part of the process of making music?
nope, have nothing to do with that you mention... I would love if you guys could try the function in Ableton to really understand what I'm talking about...

Im starting to feel this is hard to explain just with words...

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Re: FOLD option on MIDI editor - Cubase 10 - POLL (make your vote)

Post by raino » Mon Aug 20, 2018 12:57 am

nordlead26 wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:50 pm
peakae wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:21 pm
But isn't it most likely that such a "painting by numbers" feature would limit the creative part of the process of making music?
nope, have nothing to do with that you mention... I would love if you guys could try the function in Ableton to really understand what I'm talking about...
Pretty sure a lot of the replies are from people who "get' what you are saying because there is an analogous feature in the Cubase Drum Editor.

I think folks are concerned that if you limit the visible pitch pallet then a lot of musical possibilities will also disappear from view (literally). For example without seeing the non-scale notes you might not even consider using them as passing tones. Or lots of very effective chord progressions use chords not entirely within the scale. Granted all of this can be done by unfolding. But the issue is not that folding would inhibit us from doing something, rather that folding would discourage imagining new things to do.

Another concern is that when writing, understanding the interval relationships between notes is often more important than knowing if those notes are in the scale. Folding removes the visual indicator of interval size.

I'm trying to think of a situation where I'd find some advantage in seeing and having access to only the folded notes. Sometimes I do enter a note on the wrong pitch on the right end of the Window because I loose track of the horizontal line from left to right. So I suppose it would help with that - except on several occasions those "incorrect" notes turn out to be happy accidents that result in something useful.

Can the OP give us an example (or two) where and how folding has contributed to their workflow.

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Re: FOLD option on MIDI editor - Cubase 10 - POLL (make your vote)

Post by raino » Mon Aug 20, 2018 2:09 am

The OP might want to spend some time exploring Chord Track coloring in the Key Editor and see how they like it after a bit of use. As you can see it gives you a LOT more info than just the scale.
Chord Track Coloring.JPG
(198.21 KiB) Not downloaded yet
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Re: FOLD option on MIDI editor - Cubase 10 - POLL (make your vote)

Post by nordlead26 » Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:57 am

raino wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 12:57 am
Pretty sure a lot of the replies are from people who "get' what you are saying because there is an analogous feature in the Cubase Drum Editor.

I think folks are concerned that if you limit the visible pitch pallet then a lot of musical possibilities will also disappear from view (literally). For example without seeing the non-scale notes you might not even consider using them as passing tones.
But how can this become in a problem for the creativity? I mean, folding is just an extra function, click by click instantaneously hide/ instantaneusly unhide, there doesnt exist an issue, it not takes cpu to make the process or time, all become in a click and less than a milisecond, it is not like a feature unable to disable or than gonna make you spend time...


Or lots of very effective chord progressions use chords not entirely within the scale. Granted all of this can be done by unfolding. But the issue is not that folding would inhibit us from doing something, rather that folding would discourage imagining new things to do.
here is the chord progression you added as an example but (folded)
YOUR CHORDS.png
(49.02 KiB) Not downloaded yet
I'm trying to think of a situation where I'd find some advantage in seeing and having access to only the folded notes. Sometimes I do enter a note on the wrong pitch on the right end of the Window because I loose track of the horizontal line from left to right. So I suppose it would help with that - except on several occasions those "incorrect" notes turn out to be happy accidents that result in something useful.

Can the OP give us an example (or two) where and how folding has contributed to their workflow.


in particular situations fold works great, for example to make arpeggios, in major pentatonic, pentatonic japanese, diminished, arabian, persian, hungarian, major bebop... possibilities are many... and as an extra function, you should considere when you can use it as a helper and as many other functions we have in cubase that not determine we will use them always or in every moment... keep in mind than this it is not a configuration.. it works as a function like change note colors according to velocities, or pitch, or chords... if you are looking for happy accidents in certain moment, then you definitely must avoid fold in that moment...

for example, Im not gonna use (ctrl + d) if I want to clone segments, im gonna use (alt + shift + drag/drop), or coloring notes by pitch if I need to see by velocities, or open an audio in sample editor if im not going to make something creative with the audio clip... or push "Solo" button in MIDI editor, if I need to listen the background of my track... this is how I see "fold" and how I use it... extra tool for particular situations..
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Re: FOLD option on MIDI editor - Cubase 10 - POLL (make your vote)

Post by -steve- » Mon Aug 20, 2018 6:42 am

-1
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Re: FOLD option on MIDI editor - Cubase 10 - POLL (make your vote)

Post by nordlead26 » Mon Aug 20, 2018 7:02 am

-steve- wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 6:42 am
-1
Ok whatever... I see, an extra function like this, must "affect" in some way to those who never tested before, I dont know how valid can be an opinion made just by speculation...
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Re: FOLD option on MIDI editor - Cubase 10 - POLL (make your vote)

Post by Centralmusic » Mon Aug 20, 2018 7:20 am

nordlead26 wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:50 pm

. I would love if you guys could try the function in Ableton to really understand what I'm talking about...
I know Abelton very well, no fear. ;)
But I really never needed this function for chords, bass lines and melodies = I use it ONLY for Drums (like in Cubase!)
Your FR blocks the composition process without end in this area. (for me)

P.S: I am not a Techno Dance Producer with stupid repeating notes e.g. - but everyone works differently. No problem.

So, please accept that I do not need this function in cubase and vote against it.
There is much more important what cubase is still missing in my opinion. :)


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Re: FOLD option on MIDI editor - Cubase 10 - POLL (make your vote)

Post by -steve- » Mon Aug 20, 2018 7:35 am

nordlead26 wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 7:02 am
-steve- wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 6:42 am
-1
Ok whatever... I see, an extra function like this, must "affect" in some way to those who never tested before, I dont know how valid can be an opinion made just by speculation...
The experienced users in this thread know what the feature does, as do I. Consider modulating your condescension.
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not a steinberg employee

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