Halion standalone version cannot record audio outputs?

All feature requests and suggestions for upcoming releases of HALion 6 and HALion Sonic 3 can be posted here.
Post Reply
User avatar
avviano
Junior Member
Posts: 129
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2016 8:57 pm
Contact:

Halion standalone version cannot record audio outputs?

Post by avviano » Sat Jun 02, 2018 7:13 pm

Why does Halion offer the option to record audio inputs, but there is absolutely no possibility to record outgoing audio in the standalone version? Obviously, Halion has a recorder feature already build in, so why limit this option to incoming audio only, recording its outputs could be very useful for many of us? If I just need to record a quick idea (not just a layered sample, but keyboard play) and share it, its not possible right now, except by firing up the DAW (which takes ages) and going into full fledged arranger mode. Jam sessions are best done in quickly loadably apps that dont take hours to set up (routing, recording aso). Why does the standalone version of Halion offer midi recording but no option to record audio ouputs? I dont quite understand why anyone would want to record midi in the standalone version but not Halion's main audio output? Its like selling a hardware synth that only allows me to record keystroke positions but no sound! If Halion is a sampler, then let me record my sampled / played end results as audio (in standalone mode)!!!!
Cubase Pro 10, Wavelab Pro 9.5, Absolute Collection 3 (Halion 6). UR-824, Yamaha HS-5, Lorenz Acoustic F1-80 (1979!), Win 10

https://www.avviano.com
https://soundcloud.com/avviano

Brian Roland
Member
Posts: 938
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2015 5:24 pm
Contact:

Re: Halion standalone version cannot record audio outputs?

Post by Brian Roland » Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:38 pm

I agree! I'm not having any problem doing this. I can choose between H6 output buses, or individual mixer slots based on the loaded program/preset name.

Does this not work for you? It does for me...

Before you begin recording, It's a good idea to click on an unused HALion instrument slot set to an unused MIDI port/channel in HALion and initialize a fresh new program. (right click slot and choose Initialize). The reason for this is because once the recording stops, samples get dropped into the active program as a fresh new sample zone. Having a fresh and active program out of the way helps avoid inadvertent triggering of your resulting sample later in your session workflow.

Open a Sample Recorder editor in HALion.

Right beside the record, play, and reset icons is a pop up menu to choose inputs. You can chose the set of stereo inputs from your audio interface as set up in "Plug-in Preferences/Inputs", from any of the active HALion output buses, or from a specific loaded program slot in HALion.

Image

When recording from here on my Windows 10 rig, the product file ends up by default as a wav file in: "%USERPROFILE%\Documents\Steinberg\HALion 6\Recordings". It will get a naming convention established in the Sample Reccording editor (I.E. Base pitch and key position, such as record-C3-01.wav). It'll also drop the sample into the currently selected program/layer/zone, which you can delete once you are done (the sample remains on the hard drive). Long samples and RAM size are not a problem, as it gets recorded directly to disk.

Does your audio interface support live monitoring?

Example:

I've an m-audio Delta 1010 that has a stereo Monitor bus. It routes anything going into the Delta 1010 into a mixer I can open from my system tray. This mixer provides ASIO drivers that can be set as the 'inputs' in HALion. In my case they are actually named "Monitor L" and "Monitor R" respectively. So for me at least, it's a piece of cake to sample anything going into the Delta 1010 back into HALion in stand alone mode.

If your audio interface doesn't have a monitor feed, then it's possible to create one using real patch cables, or in software using Virtual Cables.

In some cases, since everything is ASIO all the way, all you'd need to do it via software is install Jack2.

The jackd server creates a routing matrix between your ASIO compliant hosts and your audio interface. So, once properly installed you'd set "JackRouter" as the ASIO device in HALion. If anything you wish to record from is also asio, they can also be set to use JackRouter as their driver, thus making it possible to route a signal from any ASIO app to another. If the source apps are not ASIO...If you are lucky, you could then route a return from the audio device right back into HALion.

For some audio interfaces with less flexible routing options, this setup might also require ASIO4ALL and a virtual audio cable such as VB-Cable. In this case you'd have ASIO4ALL aggregate VB-Cable into the JackRouter matrix (set up Jack2 to use ASIO4ALL as its main audio device), thus allowing a software based virtual 'loopback cable'.
Last edited by Brian Roland on Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:53 am, edited 6 times in total.

User avatar
avviano
Junior Member
Posts: 129
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2016 8:57 pm
Contact:

Re: Halion standalone version cannot record audio outputs?

Post by avviano » Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:19 pm

Hi Brian, thank you for a very detailed post. I will check it this evening. We did have a similar discussion on the topic here: viewtopic.php?f=157&t=92891&p=748111#p748111.

Cheers
Cubase Pro 10, Wavelab Pro 9.5, Absolute Collection 3 (Halion 6). UR-824, Yamaha HS-5, Lorenz Acoustic F1-80 (1979!), Win 10

https://www.avviano.com
https://soundcloud.com/avviano

Brian Roland
Member
Posts: 938
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2015 5:24 pm
Contact:

Re: Halion standalone version cannot record audio outputs?

Post by Brian Roland » Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:42 pm

I checked the thread linked.

In the case of recording HALion outputs back into HALion (In stand alone mode), the built in Sample Recorder should do the trick for you, regardless of your audio interface.

For other situations described in that thread that involve other apps....

When all your apps in the scenario support ASIO Drivers, use Jack2. That will let you connect outputs and inputs of any ASIO application as you like. Here's an example screenshot showing how three ASIO compliant apps can be rerouted into CuBase when using "JackRouter" as the 'ASIO full duplex audio device' for all three Apps.

So, a task like getting audio streams between WaveLab and CuBase is a done deal with Jack2. I don't have WaveLab installed here, but I can still show an example using Bidule (for networking audio over the LAN), Dorico, and Cubase.

In this case everything gets routed to CuBase Inputs. Cubase sends the main outputs over my network, and provides a local control room to my speaker outputs on the Delta 1010.

I've set up Bidule to provide networking streams in and out of my LAN. Normally I'd do this in CuBase itself through ReaStream directly, but for demo purposes I'll do it through Bidule (Example In case you had some sort of external ASIO networking app instead of using a ReaStream plugin).

Dorico has his outputs routed to an input in Cubase.

Image

With 'some' audio cards (depending on how they have their software returns configured) you can sometimes get a signal of a non ASIO app rerouted via Jack2 directly into the inputs of ASIO apps by connecting the right 'capture device' to a set of inputs for the app in Jack Control Panel. When that's not possible, grab some patch cables and make a hard loopback for the easiest and most 'stable' solution.

Anytime you want to loopback a non ASIO app, If your audio device does not support internal loopback or 'live monitoring driver feeds', I'm afraid you'll need a patch cable (virtual or real) configuration. To me the easiest, most efficent, and 'system stable' method is to simply grab a real hard patch-cord and make a real loopback (spdif or adat is the ideal port to use for loopback if your card has this).

For the task of getting non ASIO apps routed into a DAW: If my system were mounted in a situation where it's really hard to get at the stuff to change plugs around, and it came down between choosing spending money on flaky software virtual cables, or grabbing a patch-bay (or cheap external mixing console) and some cables...I'd personally go for the patchbay and cables (check ebay, sometimes people are offloading used industrial patch bays by the truck loads for dirt cheap). I'd avoid virtual cables unless I were in some sort of mobile laptop situation where hard-patching simply is not an option.

As for getting modern audio interfaces with a proper built in loopback driver within reasonable home studio budget ranges...it's getting harder and harder to find them. It also gets harder to find drivers for the latest versions of Windows and Mac OS that support older hardware like my Delta 1010.

Even with the newest stuff built today, the hardware is perfectly capable of dubbing configurations, but they on purposely short the 'drivers' of the ability to make easy app to app dubs. I think it might be due to pressure from various industries to prevent media piracy. Too many 'powers that be' do not want people to easily be able to make high quality renderings of web content and such....so they put pressure on companies making 'recording devices' to make it as difficult as possible to 'dub' content (especially streaming stuff off the internet).

So...the newer the stuff is, the less likely it will be that it has an open and unlimited 'loopback/monitoring' matrix that'll work outside of a specific application. I.E. You might can toggle between a live zero latency monitor to what is plugged in, and the buffered software return feed(s). You might get a fader to crossfade between the two (like on my Tascam 1200), but NOT get an extra set of 'monitor driver feeds' that can be jacked into the input of 'other apps'.

With all that in mind...just install Jack2, and get or build some patch cables (possibly a patch-bay or mixer if you need easy and fast access to things that are hard to get to without getting on your hands and knees with a flashlight) :)

Post Reply

Return to “Feature Requests and Suggestions”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests