Resolved - Certain single-bar rests won't hide

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bobk
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Resolved - Certain single-bar rests won't hide

Post by bobk » Thu Dec 13, 2018 4:23 am

I'm trying to hide the rests shown here:

Dorico rests.jpg
(19.56 KiB) Not downloaded yet

This is the treble staff of a piano part. The bass staff is empty and has been hidden.

In the first and third bars, I was able to hide the rest by activating the Color property and setting Opacity to 0%.

In the second and fourth bars, that doesn't work.

This is the "solos" section of a jazz piece. The goal is to have chord symbols over empty measures.

I realize this is different from the standard practice of having the measures poulated with slashes. Leaving them empty was suggested to me by a well-known jazz artist. It allows space for the individual musician to jot down ideas during a rehearsal or recording session.

How can I hide these rests? Or is there another way to get empty measures under the chord symbols?

Apologies in advance if this has already been discussed. I've spent a lot of time searching to no avail.
Last edited by bobk on Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Certain rests won't hide

Post by dankreider » Thu Dec 13, 2018 4:28 am

Click on the rests, Edit—>Remove Rests.
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Re: Certain rests won't hide

Post by bobk » Thu Dec 13, 2018 5:47 am

dankreider wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 4:28 am
Click on the rests, Edit—>Remove Rests.
I tried that. Rests remain selected and nothing happens.
Bob

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Re: Certain rests won't hide

Post by dankreider » Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:06 am

Oh, sorry. Here it is: Layout Options, Players, Show/Hide rests in empty bars.
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Re: Certain rests won't hide

Post by bobk » Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:14 am

Aready tried that, too. I just now toggled it back on (then "apply", and close) and then off again, but it didn't help.

I've also tried "starts voice" and "ends voice" in the treble staff of the first bar of the song and the last bar before the "solos" section, respectively, and that didn't help.

Any other ideas?
Last edited by bobk on Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Certain rests won't hide

Post by dankreider » Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:20 am

Err.. I'm sure that works. Did you select the correct layout when you tried it?
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Re: Certain rests won't hide

Post by bobk » Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:22 am

dankreider wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:20 am
Err.. I'm sure that works. Did you select the correct layout when you tried it?
Yep. Double and triple-checked!
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Re: Certain rests won't hide

Post by dankreider » Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:27 am

Ok, you may have "Start voice" and "end voice" activated somewhere. Check that through the Properties panel.
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Re: Certain rests won't hide

Post by k_b » Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:32 am

bobk,
a possible workaround (haven’t tested it myself): if you input crotchet (quarter note) rests via force duration, may be those rests can be hidden with “remove rests”??
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semibreve [whole note] - minim [half note]
crotchet [quarter note] - quaver [eighth note]
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Re: Certain rests won't hide

Post by bobk » Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:48 am

dankreider wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:27 am
Ok, you may have "Start voice" and "end voice" activated somewhere. Check that through the Properties panel.
I checked both before and after that passage, and there's no "start voice" and "end voice" in either location.
k_b wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:32 am
if you input crotchet (quarter note) rests via force duration, may be those rests can be hidden with “remove rests”??
I just now tried that, and it worked in the score. In the piano part, I wasn't able to get quarter rests - only the measure rest.
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Re: Certain rests won't hide

Post by k_b » Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:54 am

bobk, in case you started with an musicxml import, select and delete the double bar line. Then re input it again. Sometimes these hiccups can get fixed that way.
Dorico Elements 3.0.10, Dorico Pro 3.0.10

semibreve [whole note] - minim [half note]
crotchet [quarter note] - quaver [eighth note]
semiquaver [sixteenth note]

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Re: Certain rests won't hide

Post by bobk » Thu Dec 13, 2018 7:07 am

k_b wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:54 am
bobk, in case you started with an musicxml import, select and delete the double bar line. Then re input it again. Sometimes these hiccups can get fixed that way.
Now that you mention it, I did start with musicxml import. I'd forgotten.

I deleted both the double bar lines and re-input them. Unfortunately, that didn't help - I still can't delete the rests.
Last edited by bobk on Thu Dec 13, 2018 7:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Certain rests won't hide

Post by dankreider » Thu Dec 13, 2018 7:08 am

Arg. Can you post the project here for us to try?
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Re: Certain rests won't hide

Post by bobk » Thu Dec 13, 2018 7:10 am

See attached.

I couldn't post the original for copyright reasons, so I duplicated it, removed bars (containing notes) before and after this section, and altered the chord symbols. (I didn't remove any measures in this section or any chord symbols.) The problem remains.

Thanks in advance for checking it out!

Bob
Attachments
Hide rests problem.dorico.zip
(412.64 KiB) Downloaded 28 times
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Re: Certain rests won't hide

Post by Mayasfinest » Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:43 am

Hello Bob,
you will have to set the Consolidate option to NONE and everything is as expected...
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Re: Certain rests won't hide

Post by bobk » Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:02 am

That worked - but why?

What exactly does this option do in this case, where I was able to hide other measure rests?

I checked the reference and did Google searches and couldn't find an explanation.

Thanks!
Bob

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Re: Certain rests won't hide

Post by pianoleo » Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:21 am

If you have an entirely empty bar - in a part layout - Dorico treats it like a multirest. If it has a chord symbol then it’s not an empty bar.
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Re: Certain rests won't hide

Post by bobk » Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:42 am

pianoleo wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:21 am
If you have an entirely empty bar - in a part layout - Dorico treats it like a multirest. If it has a chord symbol then it’s not an empty bar.
This implies that multirests cannot be hidden - correct?

And if so, what does the "Consolidate" option have to do with it? There was nothing to Consolidate - just some single bars containing bar rests.

Is is that setting Consolidate to "none" means that Dorico no longer considers these as multi-bar rests, and therefore allows the rests to be hidden?

I'm trying to understand the underlying concepts, but am not there yet.

Thanks!
Bob

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Re: Certain rests won't hide

Post by pianoleo » Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:01 am

In orchestral parts, it’s quite common to see a “1” over a single bar rest, just as you’d see a “2” over a two-bar multirest or a “4” over a four-bar multirest.

As such, if rests are set to consolidate then even single empty bars are treated (consolidated) as multirests (and there’s an option to show a “1” over it). You can’t hide the multirest as it’s not a real rest; it’s an object that, in one-bar multirest situations, happens to look identical to a regular bar rest.
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Re: Certain rests won't hide

Post by Rob Tuley » Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:45 am

pianoleo wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:01 am
it’s an object that, in one-bar multirest situations, happens to look identical to a regular bar rest.
There is an Engraving Option to make it look like any other multirest, with an H-bar, if you want.

It doesn't make sense to hide multirests in general, because the player wouldn't know how long to rest.

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Re: Certain rests won't hide

Post by bobk » Thu Dec 13, 2018 4:49 pm

Got it! Thanks for explaining!

Multi means "more than one", so making single bars behave as multi-bar rests is unintuitive, even if it is a convention.

I'd like to see a way to turn it off other than completely disabling consolidation; I can imagine situations where I’d want to single bars not considered multirests, but two or more bars considered as such. The idea that "consolidating" applies to a single bar is also unintuitive.

Is there a setting where you can specify how many empty bars you must have before a multirest is used? I thought I saw that a while back, but couldn’t find it. Or maybe it’s just wishful thinking.
Bob

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