How would you number repeated bars for the performer

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Mayasfinest
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How would you number repeated bars for the performer

Post by Mayasfinest »

Hello community,

i have a piece with about 60 bars of the same pattern played by a single player. It is common orchestral practice to number these bars for the player (to help counting sheeps) in the style of: 1 (-60) 2 3 4 5 ... etc.
I know Dorico isn't capable of doing this, so maybe someone has created a workaround for this situation willing to share.

How would you accomplish this most effortless?
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Re: How would you number repeated bars for the performer

Post by dankreider »

You can right-click on bar 61 and insert a Bar Number change. And you can write with text tool the (-60) and move it, unchecking "avoid collisions."
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Re: How would you number repeated bars for the performer

Post by pianoleo »

That's not going to work if there are other players, though. The OP is perhaps a little ambiguous about that...
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Re: How would you number repeated bars for the performer

Post by Mayasfinest »

Sorry if i was a bit ambiguous: the piece is more than 60 bars long, someome has to repeat one pattern (1bar) 60x, and this repeated passage is somewhere in the middle of an orchestral snaredrum part.
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Re: How would you number repeated bars for the performer

Post by LSalgueiro »

Dorico does this automatically if you use bar repeat regions, though I can understand you not wanting to use them. I've afraid you'll have to use Text, which is more or less what you would've done in other softwares.

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Re: How would you number repeated bars for the performer

Post by steveparker »

Is there a reason you can't just use shift-X text every four or eight bars?

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Re: How would you number repeated bars for the performer

Post by Mayasfinest »

You mean this sign % with bar repeat regions..?
You can't give that to a classical orchestral player, or at least my publisher will refuse it ;-)

In Finale i had a plugin doing that for me, searching for repeated patterns in a specific region and numbering them...
Not everything is bad in other programs ;-)
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Re: How would you number repeated bars for the performer

Post by Mayasfinest »

steveparker wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 5:15 pm
Is there a reason you can't just use shift-X text every four or eight bars?
I am not free in my decision and I need it above every bar following this pattern: 1 (-60) 2 3 4 5 ... etc.
(Working for Schott Music and other publishers with a special house style)
Last edited by Mayasfinest on Thu Dec 13, 2018 5:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How would you number repeated bars for the performer

Post by pianoleo »

Luís, you prompted me to find a workaround (and I'm really chuffed with this one)

Jörg, use bar repeat regions, and then go to Engrave > Music Symbols. Then just:
1. Go to Bar Repeats category.
2. Select Repeat last bar.
3. Click the trash can.
4. Hit OK.

Image

Of course you won't be able to use actual bar repeats in this project, but I can't imagine that'll be a problem.
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Re: How would you number repeated bars for the performer

Post by LSalgueiro »

Mayasfinest wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 5:19 pm
You mean this sign % with bar repeat regions..?
You can't give that to a classical orchestral player, or at least my publisher will refuse it ;-)

In Finale i had a plugin doing that for me, searching for repeated patterns in a specific region and numbering them...
Not everything is bad in other programs ;-)
I did mean that, but as I said, I obviously understood why that wasn't an option for you.
pianoleo wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 5:22 pm
Luís, you prompted me to find a workaround (and I'm really chuffed with this one)

Jörg, use bar repeat regions, and then go to Engrave > Music Symbols. Then just:
1. Go to Bar Repeats category.
2. Select Repeat last bar.
3. Click the trash can.
4. Hit OK.

Image

Of course you won't be able to use actual bar repeats in this project, but I can't imagine that'll be a problem.
Wow! You should be chuffed! This is a pretty great! I almost never have to use bar repeats, so I would never think of this in a million years. Thanks!

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Re: How would you number repeated bars for the performer

Post by Mayasfinest »

Yes, this is a great one, fast, and with almost every control option i need, thank you.
Sadly you can't filter them to move the numbers out of the music easily...
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Re: How would you number repeated bars for the performer

Post by m-rozzano »

Thank you @pianoleo ! This is exactly the workaround I was looking for ! Alternatively, you can change the X and Y scale to zero to "hide" the symbol instead of deleting it.

Just how we can show or hide the parenthesis for the bar repeat numbers, they should add a feature to allow us to show or hide the "%" symbol for bar repeats. Especially with chamber music that repeats the same bar many times, but changes dynamics during the bar repeats. We want to see all the notes in the bar with a number above to aid counting and don't need/want the "%" symbol to appear.

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Re: How would you number repeated bars for the performer

Post by Claude Lapalme »

Personally, I use (and delete) small slashes for this, in case I need slashes or bar repeats elsewhere.
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Re: How would you number repeated bars for the performer

Post by TylerE »

This would be a really nice feature to have, especially if it worked like cues so it actually referenced the first bar (so any changes there would be reflected in all the repeats.

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Re: How would you number repeated bars for the performer

Post by PF Slow »

Besides classical and those with style requirements, anyone who deals with Broadway style charts absolutely needs this feature. Not 'would be nice to have' but Need.

The workaround is pretty cool.
This would be a really nice feature to have, especially if it worked like cues so it actually referenced the first bar (so any changes there would be reflected in all the repeats.
With show books, cuts, additions and the like follow a similar format. It's needed to keep track of changes etc. until the show is locked into its final format. That can be weeks after opening, by the way. Even with the workaround, Dorico is a long, long way off from being the right tool for that environment.

Fortunately, as has been pointed out, Finale has had this functionality for years.

When I and others insist that Dorico isn't ready for prime time, it ruffles feathers but things like this and inadequate MusicXML handling are what we are talking about—as encouraging as recent developments are (and they are encouraging).

When I purchased my cross-grade, I was doing paid beta. I'm ok with that as it doesn't expire and I get to see new releases as they happen.
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Re: How would you number repeated bars for the performer

Post by Vaughan Schlepp »

I needed to number repeated bars recently in a project and I used Leo's clever workaround. Unfortunately, as has been pointed out, you can only position the numbers globally using the bar repeat category, meaning that they'll be colliding with the music in some bars and/or way too high in other bars. I expect that when the Dorico staff gets around to implementing this, it'll be well thought-out.
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Re: How would you number repeated bars for the performer

Post by dankreider »

Just want to add my voice to this request. Leo’s workaround is excellent, but I’m running into the same limitations (and it’s still technically a workaround). Thanks.
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Re: How would you number repeated bars for the performer

Post by pianoleo »

...and Claude's version of my suggested method is even better, because it means you can use repeat bar sections elsewhere in the project.
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Re: How would you number repeated bars for the performer

Post by dankreider »

pianoleo wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 8:00 pm
...and Claude's version of my suggested method is even better, because it means you can use repeat bar sections elsewhere in the project.
Slash region? How does that work? Don’t the slashes hide the notes?
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Re: How would you number repeated bars for the performer

Post by pianoleo »

Do this:
Image

Then go into the Notehead Sets editor, select the Slashes category > Small Slash Noteheads. Select the first notehead (noteheadSlashVerticalEndsSmallOversized), edit it, select the glyph and click the trash can.

Result:
Image
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Re: How would you number repeated bars for the performer

Post by dankreider »

Ahh... “Show other voices.” Perfect, thanks!
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Re: How would you number repeated bars for the performer

Post by Rob Tuley »

Vaughan Schlepp wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:59 pm
Unfortunately, as has been pointed out, you can only position the numbers globally using the bar repeat category, meaning that they'll be colliding with the music in some bars and/or way too high in other bars.
In engrave mode, you can move each number individually.

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Re: How would you number repeated bars for the performer

Post by hamhm3 »

A really cool feature for a future version would be a "repeat count region" that would accomplish this without the need for hijacking either the repeat bar region or slash region features.
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Re: How would you number repeated bars for the performer

Post by Waldbaer »

I want to add to this request, too. I'm happy to have found this thread, though and to read about the workarounds here - one of these should do the trick for now, but the problem will return in future projects. By the way I want to number a simple long note over several bars - that does not really make sense using the bar repeats (no matter if performer/publisher like it or not) and will nevertheless happen from time to time.
hamhm3 wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 7:07 pm
A really cool feature for a future version would be a "repeat count region" that would accomplish this without the need for hijacking either the repeat bar region or slash region features.
...not to forget that the numbers should of course avoid collisions then. ;)

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