Lyrics colliding with staves

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JanGorjanc
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Lyrics colliding with staves

Post by JanGorjanc » Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:23 pm

In a choral piece for SATB with every voice split in 2 (on one stave) I get the collision between the lyrics in the 2nd bass voice and the next soprano stave. The screenshot is attached. I have tried to de-select and re-select 'Automatically resolve collisions...' button as well as increasing the gap between the staves but nothing resolved the issue.
Lyrics overlapping.zip
(226 KiB) Downloaded 38 times

Thank you for your help!

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Daniel at Steinberg
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Re: Lyrics colliding with staves

Post by Daniel at Steinberg » Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:07 am

Welcome to the forum, Jan. I'm sorry to say that under some circumstances Dorico can produce results like this, and that you will need to either adjust some vertical spacing manually in Engrave mode, adjust the rastral/staff size on the Page Setup page of Layout Options, or manually insert system breaks in Engrave mode to resolve it.

The reason this happens is that there is inherent circularity in the problem of spacing, casting off and then justifying music. Human engravers get around it by figuring it all out in advance before they start punching music into plates, but of course we expect our software to be able to handle all of this for us in real time. The problem is that Dorico doesn't know how much music it can get into a frame until it knows how wide and how tall it is, and it doesn't know how wide or tall it is until it is cast off, and it can't cast it off until it knows how wide it is... and so on. So Dorico makes some guesses early in the layout process based on the nature of the music, e.g. the presence of lyrics, tempo, rehearsal marks, dynamics, etc. – things that will typically have a larger impact on the vertical space that each staff takes up. But because it can't know which bars will actually end up on the same system yet, it can't fully take them into account precisely, so it has to guess. When it comes to actually laying the music out, it can't go back and fix all of those assumptions, because then it would have to start the whole process again, so having decided that it will probably be able to fit (say) three systems on a page, it duly does so, and sometimes if there is a lot of stuff outside the staff, this can result in collisions as you've found.

If your music is consistently marked with both dynamics above the staff at all points in the music and lyrics below the staff, as the PDF you've attached here shows, I think a combination of slightly reducing the staff size and increasing the ideal distances between staves on the Vertical Spacing page of Layout Options will reduce the amount of manual adjustment you need to make.

JanGorjanc
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Re: Lyrics colliding with staves

Post by JanGorjanc » Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:37 pm

Thank you very much Daniel, this has been very helpful, since I do tend to pack awful lot of additional information to my music :roll: this tip will probably come in handy again.

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