1. Show instrument change label at start of flow | 2. Using Percussion kit

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1. Show instrument change label at start of flow | 2. Using Percussion kit

Post by prko » Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:29 am

Hello,
Checking the "Show instrument change label at start of flow" options shows all instrument change even if a player has only one instrument.
How could I hide them when players have only one instrument?
Last edited by prko on Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:07 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Show instrument change label at start of flow

Post by Daniel at Steinberg » Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:31 am

What do you mean? You'll only get that label if the player has more than one instrument.

You can in any case edit the text of these labels in Engrave mode via the Properties panel, so you can make the text empty, e.g. a single space character.

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Re: Show instrument change label at start of flow

Post by fkretlow » Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:37 am

Daniel at Steinberg wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:31 am
You'll only get that label if the player has more than one instrument.
Surprisingly, I find that this is not the case over here, Daniel. The label appears regardless of the number of instruments a player is holding.

Another way to get rid of the labels might be to switch off that option for all layouts where you don’t need them.
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Re: Show instrument change label at start of flow

Post by prko » Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:45 am

Dorico 2.2 and Dorico 2.2.10 show the label regardless of the number of instruments a player is holding.

It seems to be a bug.

I followed Daniel's suggestion.

@fkretlow
How could I do this?
Another way to get rid of the labels might be to switch off that option for all layouts where you don’t need them.
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Re: Show instrument change label at start of flow

Post by fkretlow » Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:53 am

From the list on the right-hand side in Layout Options select all the layouts where you don't want the labels, then deactivate the option and click apply.
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Re: Show instrument change label at start of flow

Post by prko » Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:33 pm

Thanks but it is irrelevant to my question.
What you suggest is unchecking "Show instrument change label at start of flow" in specific Layouts.
What I am pointing is hiding instrument change label at start of flow in Full score.
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Re: Show instrument change label at start of flow

Post by fkretlow » Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:37 pm

OK, I misunderstood you then.
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Re: Show instrument change label at start of flow

Post by prko » Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:45 pm

@fkretlow
No problem

@Daniel
In the following screenshot, you see that the staves in the player with one instrument show the instrument change label at start of flow (This is the screenshot of the file I sent you yesterday):
Screenshot 2019-02-09 20.41.27.png
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Re: Show instrument change label at start of flow

Post by pianoleo » Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:47 pm

"Show instrument change label at start of flow" is designed to be used in part layouts, where you wouldn't normally have a staff label at the start of each system.
In score layouts, generally speaking you'd have a staff label at the start of each system anyway, so there's no need to tick "Show instrument change label at start of flow".

Under what circumstances do you need "Show instrument change label at start of flow" in a score layout, prko?
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Re: Show instrument change label at start of flow

Post by prko » Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:58 pm

To resolve the problem described in the following thread:
viewtopic.php?f=246&t=154443

This is just because of percussion, indeed.
It would be perfect if the following two conditions meet:
1. Percussion staff in percussion player is displayed with the player's name.
2. Only the staff in the player with one single instrument display at the start of flow its instrument label.

Then I do not need putting temporary notes in the blank staves to set brackets.
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Re: Show instrument change label at start of flow

Post by pianoleo » Sat Feb 09, 2019 1:36 pm

Ok. I’ve just read through about six inter-related threads from you, prko. To save everyone else from jumping going around the same loops, could you explain again why you’re not using Percussion Kits as opposed to lots of separate instruments? And then if we can keep one thread going then that’ll reduce confusion.

If we can find a way of getting you to use percussion kits in a satisfactory way, all of these other problems disappear.
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Re: Show instrument change label at start of flow

Post by prko » Sat Feb 09, 2019 2:24 pm

Thank you for your time and endeavour.

"using Percussion Kits" is not flexible to work.

I do not work on paper any more. I am writing directly on the computer when composing and arranging.
That means I can change my mind whenever before I finish work.

This type of working is currently not so good with percussion kit in Dorico:
Let us imagine that we have ten percussion instruments (from A to J) and three percussionists (not including timpanists as usual).
At the beginning of work, we allocate instrument D to the percussionist 1.
While working, we realise that instrument D must be allocated to percussionist 2.

Then, we must move instrument D from percussionist 1 to percussionist 2.
The problem is the followings:
1. using "combine instruments into kit" preserves only notes without dynamics.
2. by using several instruments in a player, unnecessary blank staves sometimes appear so that the score could be much complicated.

The standard convention to notate percussion instruments for a player is using a minimum of staves (one staff or two staves) and indicate the name of the instrument by using written word or symbol. For example, Sibelius provides lots of symbols for it, and the recent versions of Finale do it as well.

In Dorico, there will be no problem if combining instruments into a kit and releasing kit do not remove the notated information. However, Dorico removes them.
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Re: Show instrument change label at start of flow

Post by MarcLarcher » Sat Feb 09, 2019 2:28 pm

Dear prko,
I thought the problems of dynamics was linked to the 5 line staff option rather than a percussion kit. You can still (Layout options >Players >Percussion) choose single lines or grid, which should retain the dynamics.
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Re: Show instrument change label at start of flow

Post by pianoleo » Sat Feb 09, 2019 2:42 pm

Dorico does not remove information from combined percussion kits. It just can’t display dynamics from single stave instruments, when those instruments are combined onto a five-line stave.

Bearing in mind that single-stave instruments could have completely contradictory dynamics (a crescendo in a cymbal roll and a subito piano snare hit, for example) this is logical, isn’t it?

I need to do some experimenting before I can suggest a viable workflow (and I’m not in front of a computer for a few hours), but I suspect there’s a solution for you that starts with individual instruments and results in various percussion kits.
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Re: Show instrument change label at start of flow

Post by prko » Sat Feb 09, 2019 2:50 pm

Dear Marc,

Hm...
I saw this option in Dorico 2.2, and tested it.
I would like to retest it. but, there is currently no such option in 2.2.10.
Screenshot 2019-02-09 22.48.36.png
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Re: Show instrument change label at start of flow

Post by MarcLarcher » Sat Feb 09, 2019 3:30 pm

It seems you don't have any unpitched percussion instrument in your score, that's why the option would not show. Just guessing here — and I am away from my computer for the weekend : a singer sometimes has to go out and sing 😂
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Re: Show instrument change label at start of flow

Post by prko » Sat Feb 09, 2019 3:39 pm

In the score, there are

- Glockenspiels
- triangle 1-2
- cymbals
- tamtam

- triangle 3-4
- snare drum

- triangle 5-6
- suspended cymbal
- bass drum
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Re: Show instrument change label at start of flow

Post by MarcLarcher » Sat Feb 09, 2019 3:59 pm

Well, that's funny, because I dealt with a situation with unpitched perc this morning and the option showed. I'm clueless... Are those players included in this Layout?
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Re: Show instrument change label at start of flow

Post by prko » Sat Feb 09, 2019 4:16 pm

Yes, they are included.
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Re: Show instrument change label at start of flow

Post by Daniel at Steinberg » Sat Feb 09, 2019 4:18 pm

Try closing and reopening the Layout Options dialog when viewing that layout.

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Re: Show instrument change label at start of flow

Post by prko » Sat Feb 09, 2019 4:57 pm

It does not fix it.
I restarted my laptop, but I do not still see the options.
I will send the file on the next Monday.
I am sorry that I have posted too lot posts on the weekend.
Please have a nice weekend.
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Re: Show instrument change label at start of flow

Post by pianoleo » Sat Feb 09, 2019 6:28 pm

prko wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 3:39 pm
In the score, there are

- Glockenspiels
- triangle 1-2
- cymbals
- tamtam

- triangle 3-4
- snare drum

- triangle 5-6
- suspended cymbal
- bass drum
There are no percussion kits in this project. Add a kit and you'll see the percussion options show in layout options.
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Re: Show instrument change label at start of flow

Post by prko » Sat Feb 09, 2019 7:20 pm

OH, that was the reason.

So, I did the followings:
1. combing the percussion instruments in the first group.
2. the percussion instruments are combined immediately without dynamics.
3. In percussion kit window, I do one of the followings:
- pressing the "Close" button.
- pressing the "Close" button after applying the position of the instruments on the staff.
4. Opening Percussion options in Layout options.
5. Changing the percussion map options to one of the followings:
- 5-line staff
- Grid (default)
- Single-line instruments
6. The dynamics do not appear even if I change the option.
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Re: Show instrument change label at start of flow

Post by prko » Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:04 pm

Finally, I have found a proper way!

Please reproduce the following steps if you want to combine percussion instruments into percussion kit when the player already has notes with dynamic information.
1. Select "Duplicate Player" from context menu which appears when pressing the player name with right button on a mouse.
2. Let us call the duplicated player as "perc 1", and the original as "perc".
3. combine the "perc 1":
- adjust the position of each instrument on the five-line staff
- press Apply
- press Close
4. Select 5-line staff in percussion map options in Layout options
5. Select all notated items on all staves of player "perc".
6. paste it into the one 5-line staff of player "perc 1".
7. delete player "perc".

This let Dorico retain notes, dynamics etc.!

Now, I do not need anything mentioned above and in other threads!
What I now need is a piece of graphical information on the legend in a score which will be inserted under the {@playerlist@} token. It is required often. I can do it as follows:
1. exporting a graphics file of an informative notation with stemless notes and staff text on a 5-line staff.
2. import this in Dorico, and place it under the {@playerlist}

It is great!
Thank you for helping me, and I apologise for so long and many threads regarding this.
Now I am a bit confident in using Dorico!
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Re: 1. Show instrument change label at start of flow | 2. Using Percussion kit

Post by pianoleo » Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:28 pm

Well done prko. That's pretty much exactly what I drafted on my phone (between Catford Bridge and London Bridge, for anyone who's interested!) on the train earlier, before realising that I wanted to double-check it worked reliably before posting ;)
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