Moving articulations?

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jamwerks
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Moving articulations?

Post by jamwerks »

I'm not having luck moving vertically accents that are outside the staff. According to the manual, should be possible in the properties tab, also with alt-up arrow while in Engrave mode. None of that moves them at all. If I move them by hand, the jump right back into place.

What am I missing?

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Re: Moving articulations?

Post by Rob Tuley »

This works for me.

To move them with alt-up arrow you have to select just the articulation, not the note.

To use the properties panel you have to select the note not the articulation, then change "Offset Y" in the Articulations panel.

I have no idea why you can move them "by hand" (you mean dragging with the mouse?) but they jump back.

If none of this helps, attach a score that demonstrates your problem.

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Re: Moving articulations?

Post by jamwerks »

Thanks for chiming in. I opened up another document, and there was able to move them in all the described ways with no problem.

Makes me think that I have a corrupt document. I'm also experiencing strange things in the master pages.

Are there any settings in the Engraver options that would explain why the articulations jump ?

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Re: Moving articulations?

Post by pianoleo »

Not that I can think of. If you can't post a cut-down version of the project that reproduces the project, maybe post a screenshot with some context (preferably a whole page) with all signposts turned on.
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Re: Moving articulations?

Post by jamwerks »

Thanks, I'll try to post a cut-down version…

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Re: Moving articulations?

Post by jamwerks »

I have a trimmed down file which is still acting strangely. It also seems to have some other problems. Can someone give me permission to post an attachment ?

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Re: Moving articulations?

Post by pianoleo »

You don't need permission. You just need to Zip the file first.
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Re: Moving articulations?

Post by jamwerks »

How do I upload it on this thread? I read the FAQ that says I might need permission

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Re: Moving articulations?

Post by pianoleo »

Click the "Full Editor & Preview" button under the "Quick Reply" box, then select the "Attachments" tab underneath and click "Add files".
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Post by jamwerks »

Ok, here is the file. Many thanks for your time!
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jam cut-down.zip
(390.53 KiB) Downloaded 19 times

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Re: Moving articulations?

Post by jamwerks »

There also seems to be a problem in the 4th stave, when modifying notes, it can put those in another voice, and add full rests in additional voices in lots of measures before and after!

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Re: Moving articulations?

Post by pianoleo »

I'm afraid this is a really weird one. All I can tell you is that if I delete the slurs and then add them again, I can move the accents as expected. I can't see any reason why, though. With any luck someone from the development team will take a look sooner rather than later (so DO leave the attachment exactly where it is).
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Re: Moving articulations?

Post by pianoleo »

When you say "the 4th stave", do you mean the cello staff? I'm not noticing anything odd there...
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Re: Moving articulations?

Post by jamwerks »

Thanks for taking a look, very kind.
This file comes from a kind of master-file that I've created with all my settings, master-pages, sizes, etc.
And there seems to be several things wrong with it...

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Re: Moving articulations?

Post by jamwerks »

Yes the cello staff. That problem started later in the piece. And I've had the same problem in another file created from a same common default file. I'll definitely need to create another one!

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Re: Moving articulations?

Post by Daniel at Steinberg »

Can you specify exactly where in the project you're having problems? There don't seem to be any articulations in the cello staff, only notes, slurs, dynamics, and playing techniques.

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Re: Moving articulations?

Post by pianoleo »

Daniel, the slurs with accents are in the piano part IIRC.
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Re: Moving articulations?

Post by Daniel at Steinberg »

I find that I can move the accent on the piano RH staff in bar 1 with no problems. There is a minimum Y position below which it won't go even if you set a negative Y offset, so you can't e.g. make it appear any closer to the note than its default position, and if you try, then you have to move it sufficiently far vertically to counteract that existing offset. Perhaps that's what you're seeing?

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Re: Moving articulations?

Post by pianoleo »

No, there’s something odd about it (at least on my machine). I’ll post a gif in a bit.
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Re: Moving articulations?

Post by pianoleo »

Actually, scratch all of that.
Steinberg's first law - Daniel is always right (and I'm wrong).
jamwerks, the accent in the top piano stave in bar 4 already has a negative offset - you've asked it to go lower.

Image

It can't go lower because there's a slur and you have the following Engraving Option set:
Image

This is a bit complicated to explain, but I'll try.
I believe that what's happening is this:
When you drag an accent with the mouse, Dorico measures the distance you actually drag. The following distance is about 4 spaces.
Image

The natural position (no Y offset) of the accent is here:
Image

Dorico's already added an offset of about +2.25 spaces to get the accent above the slur (as the Engraving Option dictates). At some point you've knocked the offset down to -2.875, but Dorico's leaving the accent above the slur. If you drag the accent +4 spaces, Dorico doesn't calculate the move as (current automated offset) 2.25 + (drag) 4 = 6.25 spaces, it calculates it as (existing offset) -2.875 + (drag) 4 = 1.125, which is lower than the 2.25 offset that's the minimum that Dorico can get away with (because of the slur).

Capiche? (I won't be offended if the answer's "no"!)
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Re: Moving articulations?

Post by jamwerks »

So when I have a slur, I can't really move the accents on a per-case basis ?

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pianoleo
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Re: Moving articulations?

Post by pianoleo »

You can via this workaround:
In Engrave mode, select the accent.
Hit F (for Flip) - this will set the Placement of the accent to "stem side" rather than "notehead side" (so under the note, in this case).
Then nudge it up.
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Re: Moving articulations?

Post by jamwerks »

Thanks!

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