Control surface for Cubase (buying question)

Post general topics related to Cubase Pro 10, Cubase Artist 10 and Cubase Elements 10 here.
chileanbyone
New Member
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 1:48 am
Contact:

Control surface for Cubase (buying question)

Post by chileanbyone » Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:54 pm

Hello
Do you have a good recommendation for a control surface?. I am really new to recording but I was shopping around for a control surface/mixer so I can automate some of the sounds and record the automation.

Thank you in advance!

chileanbyone
New Member
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 1:48 am
Contact:

Re: Control surface for Cubase (buying question)

Post by chileanbyone » Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:06 pm

I was looking on Amazon

Nektar Panorama P1 Control Surface https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00C1QJEH6/re ... MDlDbYXCG9

But one of the reviews says:

Sleek and beautiful design but it does not integrate well with Cubase (that's the DAW I'm using, so my review is based on using it with Cubase Pro). I had such a hard time setting it up and then Cubase kept crashing. Once I emailed support (which is relatively fast in replying) and we fixed the crashing issue after writing back and forth, I was still left with a ton of bugs and issues. I bought this to get a faster productivity but it did the contrary.


Thank you

User avatar
greggybud
Senior Member
Posts: 1179
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 10:01 am
Contact:

Re: Control surface for Cubase (buying question)

Post by greggybud » Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:27 pm

chileanbyone wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:54 pm
. I was shopping around for a control surface/mixer so I can automate some of the sounds and record the automation.

Thank you in advance!
You don't need a DAW mixer to do this. This is achieved in Cubase. A DAW controller is simply real hardware to replace moving faders, pan ports, VST and VSTI controllers.

Maybe I'm not understanding your objectives. personally a controller like Metagrid has enhanced my workflow much more than a DAW controller does. DAW controller for mixing,, Metsgrid for better control.
Windows 7x64, Wavelab 9.5, latest Cubase version, i7, 16g, SSD, (Gigabyte GeForce GTX 750ti driving 2 32" LG ultra wides and 1 28" all @2560x1080) iCon QconPro, Metagrid, 4 MidiTimePiece's = 32in/outs, 4 TB HDs, UAD-2, NI, Waves, Arturia, and lots of hardware synthesizers most of them controlled by MidiQuest 11.

User avatar
Rumdrum
Member
Posts: 538
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2011 1:08 am
Contact:

Re: Control surface for Cubase (buying question)

Post by Rumdrum » Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:43 pm

I find external control surfaces usefull when doing recording alone. Since it is cabled you can have a relatively small control surface close to your instrument without moving the computer or crashing the instrument into the desk. For this purpose you can also use an iPad or similar with a remote controller downloaded, like Cubase IC Pro.

As another OP mentiones, you do NOT need an external control surface to manage faders or make automation. Some people do however find a hardware fader to be more precise. And some like them because that is what they are used to before the DAWs came.

I am using Avid Artis Transport for remote, however as the name indicates it is for transport task only and I only use it in recording. However, Avid also have external faders.
Mac Pro - Maverics 3,2Ghz - 20GB RAM - 22TB Disc, Cubase 8,5 + 4.5 (on PC/XP), Wavelab 9, iPad Remote, RME Hammerfall RAYDAT, Yamaha01V96, and a bucket of ice cream.

chileanbyone
New Member
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 1:48 am
Contact:

Re: Control surface for Cubase (buying question)

Post by chileanbyone » Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:27 pm

I guess I am just trying to control the faders as the music is happening. Per example lets say I record 4 -5 different instruments.

Then I am going to record the automation but I would have to move the faders to make the sound go from very low sound to higher volume sound.

Does that make sense? I know there is a way to do it with the mouse but it just does not feel natural.

I guess I am looking to assign the faders to a hardware control and then record the automation the song.

Might not make sense because like I said,. I am new to this. Still need to learn the lingo

User avatar
greggybud
Senior Member
Posts: 1179
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 10:01 am
Contact:

Re: Control surface for Cubase (buying question)

Post by greggybud » Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:26 pm

chileanbyone wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:27 pm

Then I am going to record the automation but I would have to move the faders to make the sound go from very low sound to higher volume sound
What happens for me in reality is what you described. Hit record, move the faders and the automation is recorded.

But 99% of the time after automation is recorded, I'm going to have to edit that automation anyway. Because of always editing, I usually skip recording automation on the fly, and instead write the automation once the audio or midi has already been recorded This way I get the basic volume automation down correctly and later only have to make minor adjustments. This applies to all other controllers too.

Generally I feel a lot of users place too much emphasis on DAW controllers without really understanding the benefits. I use a MCU controller. Sure its helpful, and in certain instances as mentioned above, practically lost without one. But do research. read all the posts about things $500-$1500 controllers don't do...then read all the requests for a stripped down $5,000 Nuage.
Windows 7x64, Wavelab 9.5, latest Cubase version, i7, 16g, SSD, (Gigabyte GeForce GTX 750ti driving 2 32" LG ultra wides and 1 28" all @2560x1080) iCon QconPro, Metagrid, 4 MidiTimePiece's = 32in/outs, 4 TB HDs, UAD-2, NI, Waves, Arturia, and lots of hardware synthesizers most of them controlled by MidiQuest 11.

chileanbyone
New Member
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 1:48 am
Contact:

Re: Control surface for Cubase (buying question)

Post by chileanbyone » Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:44 pm

greggybud wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:26 pm
chileanbyone wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:27 pm

Then I am going to record the automation but I would have to move the faders to make the sound go from very low sound to higher volume sound
What happens for me in reality is what you described. Hit record, move the faders and the automation is recorded.

what do you recommend instead? I am looking for something around $200. Something easy to move the faders. But it could also mean I am ignorant to the fact.

I just have 13 songs that I would like to add a little more automation to give it a little more life. Just thought it would be easier with a hardware that had physical faders.

I am open to other suggestions though. If you have a video to share that would be great too. Like I said Only know 1% of Cubase!

Thank you!

chileanbyone
New Member
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 1:48 am
Contact:

Re: Control surface for Cubase (buying question)

Post by chileanbyone » Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:02 pm

I was even thinking of something simple like this
https://www.amazon.com/Korg-nanoKONTROL ... B004M8UZS8

Thoughts?

User avatar
Rumdrum
Member
Posts: 538
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2011 1:08 am
Contact:

Re: Control surface for Cubase (buying question)

Post by Rumdrum » Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:12 pm

As "greggybud" mentiones, there is no need at all for hardware faders. Just put the track in write mode and move the fader with the mouse. It does not matter at all if you get it right, in fact you can deliberately do it wrong. After any kind of recording open the automation lane on the track and then with the different drawing tools, you correct the automation to what you want.

It costs way less, goes much faster when you get the hang of it and you learn to change the automation without re-recording everything. This way you can also give subtle changes at a later time to make automation fit with every track. The hardware way is old and obsolete, only for die hard old school studio personell. Well, perhaps I am over doing the stereotypes here, but I am indeed old school studio and I've learned not to use hardware for automation.
Mac Pro - Maverics 3,2Ghz - 20GB RAM - 22TB Disc, Cubase 8,5 + 4.5 (on PC/XP), Wavelab 9, iPad Remote, RME Hammerfall RAYDAT, Yamaha01V96, and a bucket of ice cream.

User avatar
Rumdrum
Member
Posts: 538
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2011 1:08 am
Contact:

Re: Control surface for Cubase (buying question)

Post by Rumdrum » Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:17 pm

And if you do not get any sleep if you do not have a fader to move, look for your next keyboard (if that is up for renewal). Most will have knobs and some even sliders that indeed looks and behaves like a fader. Use MIDI learn to "program" the keyboard slider/fader.
Mac Pro - Maverics 3,2Ghz - 20GB RAM - 22TB Disc, Cubase 8,5 + 4.5 (on PC/XP), Wavelab 9, iPad Remote, RME Hammerfall RAYDAT, Yamaha01V96, and a bucket of ice cream.

User avatar
plectrumboy
Member
Posts: 625
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2011 4:48 pm
Contact:

Re: Control surface for Cubase (buying question)

Post by plectrumboy » Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:34 pm

I bought the Icon QCon Pro X controller and one ProXS expander. For the first eight months this was an 'okay' setup; but like you said you can easily end up spending a lot of time trying to get your setup to work rather than just using it to save time. HOWEVER: Icon upgraded the firmware significantly recently. Since then (the last couple of months) it has become absolutely rock solid and hugely enjoyable (and invisible).

Expensive, but I now have 16 tracks of motorised faders and other Cubase controls that are genuinely helpful and make Cubase great fun for mixing.

Steve.
Scan 3XS desktop i7 5820 @ 4.0 Ghz on Asus x99 Pro 32Gb running Windows 10 pro with Thunderbolt card; MacBook Pro, 2x UR824, UAD Apollo Twin Mk II Quad; Icon Qcon Pro X, Cubase 10 (most recent), Jamstix 4, The Grand 3, HSO, Wavelab 9.5, Halion 6, BFD3, NI Studio Drummer, Session Horns Pro, Mark 1, Groove Agent 4, Stylus RMX, Trillian, VST Connect Pro.

skijumptoes
Member
Posts: 280
Joined: Tue May 07, 2019 9:51 pm
Contact:

Re: Control surface for Cubase (buying question)

Post by skijumptoes » Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:00 pm

I like MCUs but you won't get one for $200 - really, so you don't get lost in a mix powered faders are a must if you're controlling more than 8 tracks, and a screen is very important too - if they're not powered it's easier just using the mouse/screen.

If i was you i'd consider something like the single fader controllers such as the presonus faderport or behringer x-touch one - not sure which runs best with Cubase though (X touch perhaps?), for automation you need a motor and this is the way to do it on a budget. Plus you don't get lost 'where' you are in the project as you can next/previous through the mixer channels.

Also, just learn how easy it is to apply point to point automation - it takes less time and is smoother than using a manual fader - manual faders are very good for expressive volume adjustment.. i.e. vocal riding, for example.

garymusic
Junior Member
Posts: 74
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 6:24 am
Contact:

Re: Control surface for Cubase (buying question)

Post by garymusic » Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:03 am

What I use is a Yamaha 01V96 V2 mixer. It has a remote layer that works really good with Cubase. I also tried a Faderport but you can't use the Faderport and the 01V96 at the same time. You might be able to find one used for less and it really is a nice mixer and I perfer to record and monitor through as you get zero latency.
Cubase Pro 10, WaveLab Pro 9.5, MacBook Pro i7, Apogee Ensenble Thunderbolt Interface, UAD-2 Plugins, Big Ben || Yamaha 01V96V2 mixer with Rev-X Reverb

chileanbyone
New Member
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 1:48 am
Contact:

Re: Control surface for Cubase (buying question)

Post by chileanbyone » Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:17 am

skijumptoes wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:00 pm
I like MCUs but you won't get one for $200 - really, so you don't get lost in a mix powered faders are a must if you're controlling more than 8 tracks, and a screen is very important too - if they're not powered it's easier just using the mouse/screen.

If i was you i'd consider something like the single fader controllers such as the presonus faderport or behringer x-touch one - not sure which runs best with Cubase though (X touch perhaps?), for automation you need a motor and this is the way to do it on a budget. Plus you don't get lost 'where' you are in the project as you can next/previous through the mixer channels.

Also, just learn how easy it is to apply point to point automation - it takes less time and is smoother than using a manual fader - manual faders are very good for expressive volume adjustment.. i.e. vocal riding, for example.
Agreed. Thank you everyone for their input. Definitely going to look at the faderport before I get lost in this whole thing and prolong the project. Alsoo Point to Point automation definitely forward thinking compare to expensive hardware
update: I read some reviews for the presonus faderport or behringer x-touch one.. and definitely stickin to point to point automation :lol:

Rhino
Member
Posts: 320
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2011 5:20 am
Contact:

Re: Control surface for Cubase (buying question)

Post by Rhino » Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:37 am

the original Faderport and Steinberg's CC121 (at twice the price) are the only fader controllers that follow track selection in Cubase perfectly, without the need for manual bank switching, unlike anything using the Mackie/HUI protocol (which also includes the new Faderport and the Behringer One).
this is a big deal in everyday work, the difference between no-brainer and constant fiddling. :idea:
Personally, I find a single fader (which automatically works on the selected channel) much more intuitive than 8 or 16 ...

if you have a bit more money to burn, I would rather consider a Console One than an 8 fader box.
It can also write automation, follows fine (with a few quirks) and you get that entire channel strip shebang on top, which is super high quality (UA grade) and can really transform your workflow to a more "human" level. 8-)

personally, I use an original Faderport in combination with Console One, they integrate perfectly - you basically have a complete hardware channel (+++) at your fingers, in fact, there are even extensions, other flavours to add to the stock SSL voicing (which is a great allrounder).
highly recommended ...

beyond that, you should certainly also check out "key command controllers", as has already been suggested, but that's an entirely different topic (a really worthwhile one).

ymmv, but make an informed decision !
most fader controllers effectively cause more trouble, not less - ime.
just saying,
Rhino
When you tear out a man's tongue, you are not proving him a liar, you're only telling the world that you fear what he might say.
(George R.R. Martin)

User avatar
strummer
Junior Member
Posts: 187
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2018 7:20 am
Location: Safe European Home, Stockholm, Sweden
Contact:

Re: Control surface for Cubase (buying question)

Post by strummer » Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:07 pm

greggybud wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:26 pm
chileanbyone wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:27 pm

Then I am going to record the automation but I would have to move the faders to make the sound go from very low sound to higher volume sound

But 99% of the time after automation is recorded, I'm going to have to edit that automation anyway. Because of always editing, I usually skip recording automation on the fly, and instead write the automation once the audio or midi has already been recorded This way I get the basic volume automation down correctly and later only have to make minor adjustments. This applies to all other controllers too.

This:)
Laptop Win 10, i7-4700MQ, 16 GB ram, SSD, Cubase pro 10, Steinberg UR824, 2 x Presonus Digimax D8, microphones:)

User avatar
greggybud
Senior Member
Posts: 1179
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 10:01 am
Contact:

Re: Control surface for Cubase (buying question)

Post by greggybud » Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:06 pm

Rhino wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:37 am
the original Faderport and Steinberg's CC121 (at twice the price) are the only fader controllers that follow track selection in Cubase perfectly, without the need for manual bank switching, unlike anything using the Mackie/HUI protocol (which also includes the new Faderport and the Behringer One).
this is a big deal in everyday work, the difference between no-brainer and constant fiddling. :idea:
Personally, I find a single fader (which automatically works on the selected channel) much more intuitive than 8 or 16 ...
Manual Bank Switching for me is the worst drawback of any MCU protocol controller. IMO, this issue alone devalues any MCU protocol greatly. With that said, I'm told Logic has made some type of after-protocol adjustments that make banks automatically switch. In addition, this guy actually can make it work for I believe any MCU protocol, but huge kudos if you actually get the nerve to try :lol:

https://vi-control.net/community/thread ... ler.79038/

The 2nd worse MCU drawback, is the very low character limitation on the scribble strip.

Anyway going back to the OP's objectives, as already mentioned practically anything can control faders, pans, etc. Even a midi usb synth using midi learn. After a few years with DAW controller, and seemingly endless questions such as "why can't it do this function" "why doesn't X function work with whatever DAW you own" "whats wrong with the 8 channel extender I just bought" "the motorized faders are too noisy" plus endless firmware upgrades, poor user manuals, (you learn by trial and error and by other users) and most everyone having Yamaha Nuage Envy, I'm saying do your research first and understand the things that will and will not work before purchase. Even motorized faders...I usually shut them off 75% of the time because of distraction. They certainly have a purpose, but for me not the majority of time.
Windows 7x64, Wavelab 9.5, latest Cubase version, i7, 16g, SSD, (Gigabyte GeForce GTX 750ti driving 2 32" LG ultra wides and 1 28" all @2560x1080) iCon QconPro, Metagrid, 4 MidiTimePiece's = 32in/outs, 4 TB HDs, UAD-2, NI, Waves, Arturia, and lots of hardware synthesizers most of them controlled by MidiQuest 11.

skijumptoes
Member
Posts: 280
Joined: Tue May 07, 2019 9:51 pm
Contact:

Re: Control surface for Cubase (buying question)

Post by skijumptoes » Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:25 pm

That's the good thing about an MCU you can turn the motors on/off with a button. But yeah, the character limit on a screen is really annoying, particularly when you look at the Behringer X touch style devices that could also put out coloured scribble strips - you'd think by now someone would've just make a simple (global) addition to the Mackie Protocol to allow for longer character count and an RGB colour value.

User avatar
greggybud
Senior Member
Posts: 1179
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 10:01 am
Contact:

Re: Control surface for Cubase (buying question)

Post by greggybud » Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:54 pm

skijumptoes wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:25 pm
the character limit on a screen is really annoying, particularly when you look at the Behringer X touch style devices that could also put out coloured scribble strips
Be thankful Behringer X Touch offers whatever it does.
Take a look at the QconPro.
The 2nd attachment is more clean, but now I'm limited to 5 or at the most 6 characters if I want 1 space on each side. :lol:
Attachments
129 low.jpg
(125.84 KiB) Not downloaded yet
112 low.jpg
(73.53 KiB) Not downloaded yet
Windows 7x64, Wavelab 9.5, latest Cubase version, i7, 16g, SSD, (Gigabyte GeForce GTX 750ti driving 2 32" LG ultra wides and 1 28" all @2560x1080) iCon QconPro, Metagrid, 4 MidiTimePiece's = 32in/outs, 4 TB HDs, UAD-2, NI, Waves, Arturia, and lots of hardware synthesizers most of them controlled by MidiQuest 11.

skijumptoes
Member
Posts: 280
Joined: Tue May 07, 2019 9:51 pm
Contact:

Re: Control surface for Cubase (buying question)

Post by skijumptoes » Thu Jul 18, 2019 10:30 am

Oh that's tight on the QCon isn't it!

Are you aware you can rename plugin parameters in Cubase as to how they appear on MCU screens? I only found this out last week and i now use abbreviations that follow some logic and it does help. But man, i'd love coloured strips lol.

User avatar
Jorge Ruiz
Junior Member
Posts: 113
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 2010 3:31 am
Contact:

Re: Control surface for Cubase (buying question)

Post by Jorge Ruiz » Thu Jul 18, 2019 2:09 pm

chileanbyone wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:44 pm
what do you recommend instead? I am looking for something around $200. Something easy to move the faders. But it could also mean I am ignorant to the fact.
Then a second hand CC121 could be your best option. It's very old but tailor-made for Cubase, reliable and built like a tank. I bought mine a year ago and it has really paid off. In the past I also had a Nektar P4 controller, and my experience was very much similar to that reviewer you quote: a complete nightmare, with lots of crashes and error messages for whatever reason until I got rid of it.
PC i7 5960x 8 cores @ 4.2Ghz (Hyper-Threading off) | 16 GB RAM | MSI X99A SLI Plus | Nvidia GTX 1050 Ti 4 GB | RME HDSPe RayDAT | Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 3rd Gen. | Behringer ADA8200 | Steinberg CC121 | Windows 10 Pro 64 bits | Cubase Pro 10 | WaveLab Elements 9.5 | Komplete 12 | Waves | Soundtoys | Alesis QuadraSynth | Oberheim Matrix 1000 | IK UNO Synth | Korg TR-Rack | Alesis S4 Plus | Zoom 9010 | Roland GP-8

User avatar
greggybud
Senior Member
Posts: 1179
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 10:01 am
Contact:

Re: Control surface for Cubase (buying question)

Post by greggybud » Thu Jul 18, 2019 3:03 pm

skijumptoes wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 10:30 am
Are you aware you can rename plugin parameters in Cubase as to how they appear on MCU screens?
No I'm not aware. Sure you can rename parameters in the remote control editor. Thats what the 2nd attachment represents. However the 1st screenshot above is the built-in Cubase eq. That's not a plug-in. I don't think there is a way to edit that. If there is, please let me know.
Windows 7x64, Wavelab 9.5, latest Cubase version, i7, 16g, SSD, (Gigabyte GeForce GTX 750ti driving 2 32" LG ultra wides and 1 28" all @2560x1080) iCon QconPro, Metagrid, 4 MidiTimePiece's = 32in/outs, 4 TB HDs, UAD-2, NI, Waves, Arturia, and lots of hardware synthesizers most of them controlled by MidiQuest 11.

skijumptoes
Member
Posts: 280
Joined: Tue May 07, 2019 9:51 pm
Contact:

Re: Control surface for Cubase (buying question)

Post by skijumptoes » Thu Jul 18, 2019 4:46 pm

Yeah i was only talking plugin parameters - It did excite me when i found it though lol.

Also, on Logic with an MCU you have several EQ modes, one of them is to have frequency/q on the pan knobs (You click to swap) and EQ band gain on the faders - that's something i wish Cubase done, as i love that mode of operation for EQ, it's proper useful.

User avatar
beatpete
Senior Member
Posts: 1042
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 2:06 am
Contact:

Re: Control surface for Cubase (buying question)

Post by beatpete » Thu Jul 18, 2019 10:44 pm

Rhino wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:37 am
the original Faderport and Steinberg's CC121 (at twice the price) are the only fader controllers that follow track selection in Cubase perfectly, without the need for manual bank switching, unlike anything using the Mackie/HUI protocol (which also includes the new Faderport and the Behringer One).
this is a big deal in everyday work, the difference between no-brainer and constant fiddling. :idea:
Personally, I find a single fader (which automatically works on the selected channel) much more intuitive than 8 or 16 ...

Also the discontinued Alphatrack (it still works great).
My favorite now is the Avid Artist Mix. I picked an older Euphonix (silver) version for reasonable price and it is the best hardware controller for Cubase at the moment (IMO). It can also scroll to selected track.
Comp1: Windows 10 64 bit, Asus X99-A USB 3.1, I7 5930K (running at 4500 MHz), 32 gb Corsair Vengeance DDR4 ram, Radeon HD5450 graphics, RME Digiface, Steinberg UR824 and MR816x (X2)
(connected to Digiface), Cubase 9.5.10 64bit
Comp 2: Windows 7 64bit, I5 3450,16 gb ram, VEPro.

hittjett
New Member
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2016 9:12 pm
Contact:

Re: Control surface for Cubase (buying question)

Post by hittjett » Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:56 pm

I have both the Korg Nanokontrol2 and the X-Touch One. I just got them. I admit that I am not the most adept user, but there are precious few instructions on the internet for setting these things up with Cubase. The user manuals for both are completely unhelpful. I managed to hook them both up through Mackie control, but mostly I've just managed to wreak havoc on Cubase. Somehow it randomly transposes one of my samples in VE Pro, and I have to reload it. It also has disabled my locator keys on the number pad. So I guess what I would say is that this is not for the faint of heart. If anyone knows of any online guides for setting these types of things up with Cubase, I would appreciate some direction.

Post Reply

Return to “General”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: ilmolto and 0 guests