coupla features I'd love to see/use...

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Bumble B
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coupla features I'd love to see/use...

Post by Bumble B » Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:48 pm

Hello

I've been working with video apps like Sony Vegas a lot recently, and there's that one feature I love:
RIPPLE EDIT

for those who don't know it - say you delete an event on a certain spot of the timeline / arrange page, all the events at the right from the deleted events jump to the left, filling the space of the deleted event as if it had never been there.
You can choose if this affects the track only or the whole timeline. It's brilliant, as you never have to select and readjust everything when you delete a section of a tune.
They also have the horizontal zoom linked to the mousewheel by default, which I also come to find extremely practical.
Another one: I often miss select all right / left of cursor. That would come in real handy in case you have a large project and want to manually move a whole bunch of events inside a track ,to make room for another event for example, without having to zoom out completely in order to manually select all the events you need to displace.

Then one that's really bugging me : I'd love to have "click to locate in empty space" also inside the editors! When doing fiddly work like cleaning up minute parts and breath noises on a vocal track for example, I constantly need to point the mouse into the tiny blue space above the editor window to locate the cursor. It would be so much less hassle and fiddly if I could just click right in the empty space without having to aim so precisely every time.

I guess that's about it...for now :mrgreen:

thanks
Last edited by Bumble B on Sat Dec 10, 2011 2:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: coupla features I'd love to see/use...

Post by twilightsong » Fri Dec 09, 2011 5:54 pm

The ripple edit function makes sense for visual media editing... I question its usefulness for music editing? Cubase does have the "delete time" function which can do this globally. However, Wavelab DOES have the feature, which makes sense, given the type of work WL is intended for
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Re: coupla features I'd love to see/use...

Post by Bumble B » Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:34 pm

Hi twilight
I find it usefull especially on single tracks, which the delete time function cannot do. also it's acouple more steps to take. here, you select the event, delete it and done. i recently did a lot of vocal editing and speech for example, where single words were doubled or repeated in sequence for different pronounciation , delete one word of 2 or 3 with ripple, and you don't have to move all the following events to close the gap -which can be quite a pain, unless at least you have the " select all right of cursor" option I also suggested.
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Re: coupla features I'd love to see/use...

Post by twilightsong » Sat Dec 10, 2011 12:02 am

Bumble B wrote:Hi twilight
I find it usefull especially on single tracks, which the delete time function cannot do. also it's acouple more steps to take. here, you select the event, delete it and done. i recently did a lot of vocal editing and speech for example, where single words were doubled or repeated in sequence for different pronounciation , delete one word of 2 or 3 with ripple, and you don't have to move all the following events to close the gap -which can be quite a pain, unless at least you have the " select all right of cursor" option I also suggested.
That's exactly the type of editing that Wavelab was designed for, BB, and that's why I don't think you'll ever see it in Cubase -- it would render Wavelab irrelevant, at least as far as editing voice-overs and dialogue, etc
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Re: coupla features I'd love to see/use...

Post by C.LYDE » Sat Dec 10, 2011 12:43 am

In fairness Vegas evolved from Sound Forge, so the detailed file editing functionality would be a strong feature. Agree with twilightsong - that would be the realm of Wavelab. :)
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Re: coupla features I'd love to see/use...

Post by Atardecer » Sat Dec 10, 2011 2:09 am

Some good points there. Ripple edit sounds pretty much like Pro Tools Slip mode, which I have found to be invaluable for certain music editing tasks. Delete time is nice but sometimes you only want to edit individual tracks.

+1 for the others

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Re: coupla features I'd love to see/use...

Post by Marsman » Sat Dec 10, 2011 6:03 am

Atardecer wrote:Delete time is nice but sometimes you only want to edit individual tracks.

+1 for the others

Jim
yes! Delete time, a classic example of a Cubase feature which has not been thought through to the end. Like the second tracklist where you can move folder and tracks, but not tracks located in folders.
Ripple edit would be much better on single and multiple tracks. Imagine being able to turn on ripple edit globally. Need to shorten a musical ramp in a film score track? Just do it from within a midi event containing the right notes, and the whole arrangement is trimmed with one keystroke. Now that would be convenient.
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Re: coupla features I'd love to see/use...

Post by Bumble B » Sat Dec 10, 2011 11:17 am

Yes for film scoring I also had some situations where it would have been very convenient to quickly adjust the whole arrangement to a newly reedited film version for example. Most video editors have it btw. The very fact that you can apply it to 1 or more tracks only as opposed to the whole arrangement is very handy.

I really don't quite see why implementing the ripple edit for example would make WaveLab downright obsolete - ripple edit is hardly what justifies all of WL's existence?
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Re: coupla features I'd love to see/use...

Post by JMCecil » Sat Dec 10, 2011 3:55 pm

Bumble B wrote: They also have the horizontal zoom linked to the mousewheel by default, which I also come to find extremely practical.
This is CTRL-scroll in Cubase, which I prefer, YMMV.
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Re: coupla features I'd love to see/use...

Post by JMCecil » Sat Dec 10, 2011 4:05 pm

Bumble B wrote: Another one: I often miss select all right / left of cursor.
There are a series of "Select" key commands to do this. You have to map them yourself. The two you mention here would be "Select from Start to Cursor" and "Select from Cursor to End".

There are more like "Select all Events beyond Cursor" that offer some optional behaviors during the selection process.
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Re: coupla features I'd love to see/use...

Post by Puma0382 » Sat Dec 10, 2011 4:49 pm

Bumble B wrote:Hello

I've been working with video apps like Sony Vegas a lot recently, and there's that one feature I love:
RIPPLE EDIT

for those who don't know it - say you delete an event on a certain spot of the timeline / arrange page, all the events at the right from the deleted events jump to the left, filling the space of the deleted event as if it had never been there.
You can choose if this affects the track only or the whole timeline. It's brilliant, as you never have to select and readjust everything when you delete a section of a tune.
Very nice - yes indeed would be useful additional feature.
Bumble B wrote: They also have the horizontal zoom linked to the mousewheel by default, which I also come to find extremely practical.
Holding CTRL+mousewheel isn't too much of a pain for me, in achieving this. Don't know if the default could be changed to how you would like; have a look in KeyCommands - it might be there.
Bumble B wrote: Another one: I often miss select all right / left of cursor. That would come in real handy in case you have a large project and want to manually move a whole bunch of events inside a track ,to make room for another event for example, without having to zoom out completely in order to manually select all the events you need to displace.

Then one that's really bugging me : I'd love to have "click to locate in empty space" also inside the editors! When doing fiddly work like cleaning up minute parts and breath noises on a vocal track for example, I constantly need to point the mouse into the tiny blue space above the editor window to locate the cursor. It would be so much less hassle and fiddly if I could just click right in the empty space without having to aim so precisely every time.

I guess that's about it...for now :mrgreen:

thanks
More good ideas..!

Bob
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Re: coupla features I'd love to see/use...

Post by Bumble B » Sat Dec 10, 2011 6:02 pm

JMCecil wrote:
Bumble B wrote: Another one: I often miss select all right / left of cursor.
There are a series of "Select" key commands to do this. You have to map them yourself. The two you mention here would be "Select from Start to Cursor" and "Select from Cursor to End".

There are more like "Select all Events beyond Cursor" that offer some optional behaviors during the selection process.


Thanks JMCecil. I wasn't aware of those. Will check them out asap. 8-)
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Re: coupla features I'd love to see/use...

Post by Audiocave » Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:16 pm

Long time Vegas user here and yes, ripple editing is potentially handy for any kind of non-linear digital editing. Vegas's implementation of it is really well done, it can ripple (your option)...
  • Affected tracks
    Affected Tracks, Bus Tracks (automation?), Markers and Regions
    All Tracks, Bus Tracks, Markers and Regions
Handy. It ripples both ways actually so if you paste in a section it moves everything else right. If you delete a section it closes the gap. If you size events it keeps the relative positions. If you move one event everything else moves.

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Re: coupla features I'd love to see/use...

Post by JMCecil » Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:27 pm

FYI, there is "Delete Time" which, although not identical, is very close to Ripple Edit. In the context of Musical Recording I find that delete time works the way I want.

EDIT: Same thing with insert time. You can even insert time with a given key sig + tempo using the various ruler/tempo/sig or region tracks.
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Re: coupla features I'd love to see/use...

Post by Audiocave » Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:46 pm

Yeah, it's not a contest between features or a knock on Cubase or the other hosts that don't ripple. Ripple editing works better than any of that in some easily demonstrable ways... in it's proper context. So it's (the FR) just a matter of asking for a contextually better method, that's all.

I'd like to have it in any host I work in and frankly, quite a few don't have it.

Anyway, play with the Vegas demo and you'll get it. Insert Time and Delete Time is not really even close to Vegas's ripple in some obvious ways.

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Re: coupla features I'd love to see/use...

Post by JMCecil » Sun Dec 11, 2011 8:37 pm

Audiocave wrote:Yeah, it's not a contest between features or a knock on Cubase or the other hosts that don't ripple. Ripple editing works better than any of that in some easily demonstrable ways... in it's proper context. So it's (the FR) just a matter of asking for a contextually better method, that's all.

I'd like to have it in any host I work in and frankly, quite a few don't have it.

Anyway, play with the Vegas demo and you'll get it. Insert Time and Delete Time is not really even close to Vegas's ripple in some obvious ways.
Actually I have to turn it off in Reaper. I like the way it works in Cubase better.
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Re: coupla features I'd love to see/use...

Post by Audiocave » Mon Dec 12, 2011 12:21 am

Uh... ok.

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Re: coupla features I'd love to see/use...

Post by JMCecil » Mon Dec 12, 2011 1:30 am

Audiocave wrote:Uh... ok.
Have you even tried to figure out how to use Delete Time? You might be surprised.
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Re: coupla features I'd love to see/use...

Post by Atardecer » Mon Dec 12, 2011 3:17 am

JMCecil wrote:
Audiocave wrote:Uh... ok.
Have you even tried to figure out how to use Delete Time? You might be surprised.
Delete Time is global is it not? That being the major difference. You cant slip edit individual tracks, which is the real advantage of such a feature *unless Im missing something).

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Re: coupla features I'd love to see/use...

Post by JMCecil » Mon Dec 12, 2011 3:25 am

No, it can be track specific.

However, I like it to be global. I've never seen the value in editing a single track and moving the stuff to right to the left. Makes no sense to me. Must be a dance music thing.
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Re: coupla features I'd love to see/use...

Post by JMCecil » Mon Dec 12, 2011 3:35 am

Here are two guitar tracks. Both tracks are selected. I actually have this hotkeyed, but used the menu just to show you.
I select a range on the top track and use the "range->delete time" option. Only the top track is edited. the audio to the right is pulled to the left. The bottom track is untouched even though the track is selected. There are a large number of options off this editing function.
Image
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Re: coupla features I'd love to see/use...

Post by JMCecil » Mon Dec 12, 2011 3:55 am

here's one showing a few selection options. The resulting parts can be glued together as part of a macro. But I wanted the edits to be clearly visible with the time being removed.
Image
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Re: coupla features I'd love to see/use...

Post by JMCecil » Mon Dec 12, 2011 4:15 am

Oh yeah, forgot an important one. Non-contiguous. There are a lot of combinations with this that you can do in conjunction with group editing. I think out of the 25 or so macros I have, 7 or 8 are based around this kind of editing. For example, you can have a macro that doesn't do time delete .. it just deletes the selection, then does a select next event, then move selection to cursor, then glue. Now you have slip edit of only the event. Just one example. But, the idea that Cubase doesn't have Slip or Ripple editing is wrong. It's just a hair different.
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Re: coupla features I'd love to see/use...

Post by JMCecil » Mon Dec 12, 2011 4:27 am

So out of everything requested, the only thing that isn't there is the ability to locate the cursor via open space in the editors. I could have sworn you could. I'll have to go back and see what I was thinking.
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Re: coupla features I'd love to see/use...

Post by Atardecer » Mon Dec 12, 2011 4:30 am

Goddamn Ive been using this program for years and had no idea you could range slip like that! Facepalm. Thanks for that :)

It can be quite useful for editing tracks to picture - more so perhaps with FX (where you want slip an atmos track but not the music), but its useful with music too and not just a dance music thing. I've been in situations many times at a film dub where certain music parts have to be slipped but not others, but Im generally using PT with slip mode at that stage of things

It is a little different to traditional slip but it does the job. Like many things in Cubase its there, but perhaps not overtly obvious. Perhaps if I RTFM it might help.

Cheers,
Jim
Last edited by Atardecer on Mon Dec 12, 2011 4:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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