Use of bridge clef from Bravura font

Discussions about our next-generation scoring application, Dorico.
Post Reply
isaacbarzso
New Member
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:00 am
Contact:

Use of bridge clef from Bravura font

Post by isaacbarzso » Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:12 am

The Lachenmann-style "bridge clef" is available in the Bravura font (U+E078; https://w3c.github.io/smufl/gitbook/tables/clefs.html) and I'm wondering if there's an effective way to implement it in Dorico. Has anyone had any luck in creating some sort of custom clef workaround, or used this clef/ symbol in some way within Dorico?

pianoleo
Grand Senior Member
Posts: 5733
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2016 11:17 am
Location: London, UK
Contact:

Re: Use of bridge clef from Bravura font

Post by pianoleo » Sat Aug 24, 2019 12:31 pm

In terms of getting something on the page, it should be as simple as:
1. Go into Engrave mode.
2. Go Engrave > Music Symbols Editor.
3. Find an existing clef you’re not using in the project (such as bass clef with octave above).
4. Double click on it, delete the existing glyph and replace with the bridge clef (you’ll find it in the glyphs section of the right panel). Hit OK and then OK/Apply again.
5. Use the bass clef with 8 above when you need a bridge clef.

I’m just hoping you’re not expecting Lachenmann-style playback from Dorico ;)
Pianist/accompanist/engraver/arranger
2015 Macbook Pro 13" Retina 3.1ghz dual-core i7, 8gb RAM; running Sibelius Ultimate, Logic Pro X, Dorico 3 etc.
& 2017 HP ZBook Studio G3 15.6” UHD quad-i7, 16gb RAM, Windows 10 Pro
Sibelius user since Sibelius 7 (Acorn, 1997), Ex-Sibelius user since Dorico 1.0

ptram
Member
Posts: 350
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 6:37 pm
Contact:

Re: Use of bridge clef from Bravura font

Post by ptram » Sat Aug 24, 2019 4:32 pm

pianoleo wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 12:31 pm
I’m just hoping you’re not expecting Lachenmann-style playback from Dorico ;)
I admit I'm expecting it. In theory, there shouldn't be any issue in representing performance controls as a staff introduced by a bridge clef, instead of an engineer's diagram like in a DAWs' control lane. Control change lanes in DAWs are mapped representations of controls. By changing the map, the same controls could live in the space of a staff.

The vertical position of the control line in the staff would mean a particular value of a control. An example could be a control change corresponding to the xfade between two patches. For example, you could use CC20 to xfade between sul tasto <> loco <> sul pont. The line moving on the control staff would send CC20 values, and the playback device would xfade between the different playing styles.

If there is a notation program that i expect will do this in a foreseeable future, this is Dorico.

Paolo

pianoleo
Grand Senior Member
Posts: 5733
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2016 11:17 am
Location: London, UK
Contact:

Re: Use of bridge clef from Bravura font

Post by pianoleo » Sat Aug 24, 2019 5:45 pm

ptram wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 4:32 pm
pianoleo wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 12:31 pm
I’m just hoping you’re not expecting Lachenmann-style playback from Dorico ;)
I admit I'm expecting it. In theory, there shouldn't be any issue in representing performance controls as a staff introduced by a bridge clef, instead of an engineer's diagram like in a DAWs' control lane. Control change lanes in DAWs are mapped representations of controls. By changing the map, the same controls could live in the space of a staff.

The vertical position of the control line in the staff would mean a particular value of a control. An example could be a control change corresponding to the xfade between two patches. For example, you could use CC20 to xfade between sul tasto <> loco <> sul pont. The line moving on the control staff would send CC20 values, and the playback device would xfade between the different playing styles.

If there is a notation program that i expect will do this in a foreseeable future, this is Dorico.

Paolo
I don't expect Steinberg (let alone the Dorico team) to sample the sound of various string players hacking away on or very near the bridge. If somebody comes up with a VST that can do that, then I have no doubt that one day Dorico will support the relevant sorts of control changes (if it doesn't already), but somebody has to create the VST and I can't imagine that will be the Dorico team in London.
Pianist/accompanist/engraver/arranger
2015 Macbook Pro 13" Retina 3.1ghz dual-core i7, 8gb RAM; running Sibelius Ultimate, Logic Pro X, Dorico 3 etc.
& 2017 HP ZBook Studio G3 15.6” UHD quad-i7, 16gb RAM, Windows 10 Pro
Sibelius user since Sibelius 7 (Acorn, 1997), Ex-Sibelius user since Dorico 1.0

ptram
Member
Posts: 350
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 6:37 pm
Contact:

Re: Use of bridge clef from Bravura font

Post by ptram » Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:30 pm

pianoleo wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 5:45 pm
I don't expect Steinberg (let alone the Dorico team) to sample the sound of various string players hacking away on or very near the bridge.
Dorico already relies on third-party developers to generate sounds. It might be the included Halion library, NotePerformer, or any Kontakt-based library, but it is not Dorico to make the sounds. Therefore, which sounds can be generated will never be something in charge of the Dorico team.

At the same time, there are already developers of sound libraries taking care of the kind of extended techniques required by composers like Lachenmann. Not all, because they are really too many. But there are already a decent number.

For example, the separate components of the vertical movement of the bow along the string is already included in several libraries. They are in the VSL libraries, in many of Spitfires', in some of Heavyocity, in the venerable Xsample.

What Dorico should take care of is sending the appropriate CC messages (something that is already capable of doing), and using the appropriate representation. As for this latter, some component is already there: the staff, the versatile choice of clefs. What is missing is a type of notation where a line drawn in a staff corresponds to CC values.

Just think to the Pedal line: it is a graphic element, tied to a position in time, sending CC values. Extending this idea to other types of lines would give us the type of control required by a Lachenmann-like notation.

Paolo

isaacbarzso
New Member
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:00 am
Contact:

Re: Use of bridge clef from Bravura font

Post by isaacbarzso » Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:04 pm

Thanks for the info, pianoleo! I hoped it would be a rather simple solution I was just missing, leave it to Dorico to actually have that be the case.
pianoleo wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 12:31 pm
I’m just hoping you’re not expecting Lachenmann-style playback from Dorico ;)
I won't be expecting it with these playback sounds - but thank goodness I can get it on the page! Cheers!

Post Reply

Return to “Dorico”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Claude Lapalme, gdball, Google [Bot], Grada, Lillie Harris, PaulWalmsley, pianoleo, Richard834, sspharis, Ulf and 8 guests