Strange Timing Issue

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Betamac
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Strange Timing Issue

Post by Betamac » Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:53 pm

Has anyone experienced strange behavior playing MIDI into Cubase

I have recently purchased a Focusrite PRO24 dsp, and this could be the issue

I'm having notes seem to record earlier than I played them in?

Im hardly a concert pianist but I know when my timings off and when its not, and Im always behind the beat if anything, not in front?

Its also making Quantise perform badly is quantise is moving things even further back in time (if you get what I mean)

Latency has always led to notes being recorded late (which Im used to), but now I'm getting them early Weird

Can anyone offer anything that may explain this (except - 'yeah your playing is obviously shocking') ;)
PC - Intel 3930k Hex core (oc'd at 4.5 gig), 16G DDR Ram, Windows 10 64 bit, Sapphire ATI Radeon 5770 Graphics, Big Screen in front, smaller screen at side. Cubase 64 Bit - Ozone 6, T Racks S3, Komplete 7 - Various Waves plugs. Focusrite PRO24Dsp - Yamaha HS80 Monitors, Audio Technica ATH M50 headphones. Logitech G600 mouse. Comfy Chair, 2 Pg Tips chimps.

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Re: Strange Timing Issue

Post by Guest » Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:15 pm

See MIDI Timing in sig.

Betamac
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Re: Strange Timing Issue

Post by Betamac » Sat Dec 17, 2011 10:48 am

Thanks

I will try this

seems odd to me, I have gone from a

USB2 interface to a Firewire, but all the latest drivers are installed.

I think I will also post on Focusrite forums, some users may have experienced similar.
PC - Intel 3930k Hex core (oc'd at 4.5 gig), 16G DDR Ram, Windows 10 64 bit, Sapphire ATI Radeon 5770 Graphics, Big Screen in front, smaller screen at side. Cubase 64 Bit - Ozone 6, T Racks S3, Komplete 7 - Various Waves plugs. Focusrite PRO24Dsp - Yamaha HS80 Monitors, Audio Technica ATH M50 headphones. Logitech G600 mouse. Comfy Chair, 2 Pg Tips chimps.

Betamac
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Re: Strange Timing Issue

Post by Betamac » Sat Dec 17, 2011 11:02 am

Another question

My control Keyboard is MIDI.

If my control keyboard used USB, is this likely to get rid of the problem? As I only use softsynths and VST instruments/effects
PC - Intel 3930k Hex core (oc'd at 4.5 gig), 16G DDR Ram, Windows 10 64 bit, Sapphire ATI Radeon 5770 Graphics, Big Screen in front, smaller screen at side. Cubase 64 Bit - Ozone 6, T Racks S3, Komplete 7 - Various Waves plugs. Focusrite PRO24Dsp - Yamaha HS80 Monitors, Audio Technica ATH M50 headphones. Logitech G600 mouse. Comfy Chair, 2 Pg Tips chimps.

GlennAnnett
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Re: Strange Timing Issue

Post by GlennAnnett » Sat Dec 31, 2011 12:18 am

Hi Betamac,

Did you ever resolve your timing issues?

I have the same problem and am slowly running out of patience with the lack of Steinberg support.

G

Conman
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Re: Strange Timing Issue

Post by Conman » Sat Dec 31, 2011 3:18 pm

GlennAnnett wrote:Hi Betamac,

Did you ever resolve your timing issues?

I have the same problem and am slowly running out of patience with the lack of Steinberg support.

G

Please read the manual. This problem should not be there for anyone as of a few years ago.
Or get in touch with the SOUNDCARD support.
Have you actually politely contacted Steinberg support? Or do you just moan here?
12 posts. ..slowly running out of patience? Do you know what that looks like?
Asus P6T deluxe; Core i7 920 2.67gHz; 12gig ram; Win7 Pro SP1; Roland Octa-Capture usb inteface; Cubase 6; and no 3rd party additions couple of hard drives PSU 750watt; NVidia GE Force 9600.
"An entrepreneur accepts that the world is the way that it is and goes about changing it rather than waiting for someone to make it easy for them."

Conman
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Re: Strange Timing Issue

Post by Conman » Sat Dec 31, 2011 3:21 pm

Just think, in the time it took you to register and post your question, you could have looked on the next couple of pages of this forum or RTFM and found out the answer for yourself. ;-)

I used to have a bunch of useful links here, but nobody ever seemed to look and demanded spoon feeding so why bother? ;-)
:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: Kids are like that. :lol:
Christmas getting to you bud? Happy new year.
Asus P6T deluxe; Core i7 920 2.67gHz; 12gig ram; Win7 Pro SP1; Roland Octa-Capture usb inteface; Cubase 6; and no 3rd party additions couple of hard drives PSU 750watt; NVidia GE Force 9600.
"An entrepreneur accepts that the world is the way that it is and goes about changing it rather than waiting for someone to make it easy for them."

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Re: Strange Timing Issue

Post by Guest » Sat Dec 31, 2011 3:48 pm

Conman wrote:Christmas getting to you bud?
Nope, just rude-a55 newbs. ;) :lol:

Betamac
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Re: Strange Timing Issue

Post by Betamac » Sat Dec 31, 2011 7:12 pm

Ahem!

I have tried Mashedmitten's suggestion as per the MIDI help pages on Steinberg, have noticed no difference in behavior, problem I'm having is.

1. notes recording earlier than played and 2. this affecting quantise and causing further timing problems

I'm still trying to get it solved, but the behavior has occured since I changed from an Edirol UA-25 soundcard (using USB2), to a Focusrite PRO24 DSP (using Firewire). I'm not blaming Cubase (its more likely that The Focusrite Soundcard is the culprit) I just want to see if anyone's had this, and what to do, if they know, while I'm trying to solve it myself and RTFM, no harm in that is there? :roll:

The focusrite website suggest if there are problems to use a legacy driver which I will try, but wanted to update the thread.

still asking if anyone knows - If I had a seperate control Keyboard interface which used USB could this perhaps solve things as I use only VST synths, and therefore would not be reliant on MIDI?

(update) - just checked the Focusrite web - windows 7 - compatible - so I'm using the latest driver, and Focusrite claim this is compatible (with windows 7 64bit at least)
PC - Intel 3930k Hex core (oc'd at 4.5 gig), 16G DDR Ram, Windows 10 64 bit, Sapphire ATI Radeon 5770 Graphics, Big Screen in front, smaller screen at side. Cubase 64 Bit - Ozone 6, T Racks S3, Komplete 7 - Various Waves plugs. Focusrite PRO24Dsp - Yamaha HS80 Monitors, Audio Technica ATH M50 headphones. Logitech G600 mouse. Comfy Chair, 2 Pg Tips chimps.

Conman
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Re: Strange Timing Issue

Post by Conman » Sat Dec 31, 2011 7:22 pm

I think you'll find in Devices Setup "use system timestamp" will fix this. And I hope I've saved you a day or so searching the manual for it.
Also google a latency checker which will highlight any problems in your system.
Remarks not aimed at you.
Asus P6T deluxe; Core i7 920 2.67gHz; 12gig ram; Win7 Pro SP1; Roland Octa-Capture usb inteface; Cubase 6; and no 3rd party additions couple of hard drives PSU 750watt; NVidia GE Force 9600.
"An entrepreneur accepts that the world is the way that it is and goes about changing it rather than waiting for someone to make it easy for them."

Betamac
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Re: Strange Timing Issue

Post by Betamac » Sat Dec 31, 2011 7:36 pm

Thanks Conman

Did try the system Timestamp, it made no difference

Have ran the Latency checker and get good scores, so no probs there

I might power down and plug my Card into the Firewire socket that is on my motherboard, instead of the one I bought that has the Texas instruments chipset (as per what I was advised would work best)

never know this might be causing problems? prepared to have a go at anything ;)
PC - Intel 3930k Hex core (oc'd at 4.5 gig), 16G DDR Ram, Windows 10 64 bit, Sapphire ATI Radeon 5770 Graphics, Big Screen in front, smaller screen at side. Cubase 64 Bit - Ozone 6, T Racks S3, Komplete 7 - Various Waves plugs. Focusrite PRO24Dsp - Yamaha HS80 Monitors, Audio Technica ATH M50 headphones. Logitech G600 mouse. Comfy Chair, 2 Pg Tips chimps.

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Re: Strange Timing Issue

Post by Guest » Sat Dec 31, 2011 7:46 pm

Follow the opposite advice from that link re: emulated ports.

popmann
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Re: Strange Timing Issue

Post by popmann » Sat Dec 31, 2011 9:35 pm

If my control keyboard used USB, is this likely to get rid of the problem?
If it did, it would only be because the class compliant interface driver worked better than Focusrite's. Keyboards with USB are just MIDI keyboards witha built in class compliant 1x1 USB midi interface.

Want to fix the problem? Get a MOTU MIDI interface. I had continuous problems with Cubase and previously Nuendo's midi timing with RME HDSP MIDI, MIDIman 2x2 USB...an old SBLive card actually did better than those, FWIW...switched to a MOTU Parallel port MTPAV, and came back to Cubase (4 at the time) after years of swearing it off for the problems--problems went away. At some point, I switched to a MOTU USB 5x5, which has had solid internal and external timing. Was it fixed with C4 (and now C6)? Or MOTU's driver/hardware? Who knows...call me superstitious, but when I read about someone having midi timing issues with modern Cubase, I've got to believe it's the MOTU gear.

Beg or borrow a MOTU unit from your local dealer. If it fixes it, buy it and call it a day. If it doesn't, you know the problem runs deeper--install Cubase on another computer. I've now had C4 or C6 on several different boxes with the MOTU hardware--both Mac and PC, XP and Win7x64...no midi timing problems (except the timing issues inherent to MIDI to begin with).

Betamac
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Re: Strange Timing Issue

Post by Betamac » Sun Jan 01, 2012 1:06 pm

Just found an article on the Focusrite Website.

relating to pci express latency - I'm plugged into a PCI express Firewire card, so gonna revert back to the Firewire thats on my Motherboard see if it fixes it, but focusrite say that the texas instruments chipset (that im currently plugged to via PCI express) is the most reliable

popman - I cant really change to a different soundcard to fix this, I'll lose money selling what I have, then lose again purchasing new.

How much is the Motu you suggest BTW
PC - Intel 3930k Hex core (oc'd at 4.5 gig), 16G DDR Ram, Windows 10 64 bit, Sapphire ATI Radeon 5770 Graphics, Big Screen in front, smaller screen at side. Cubase 64 Bit - Ozone 6, T Racks S3, Komplete 7 - Various Waves plugs. Focusrite PRO24Dsp - Yamaha HS80 Monitors, Audio Technica ATH M50 headphones. Logitech G600 mouse. Comfy Chair, 2 Pg Tips chimps.

Betamac
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Re: Strange Timing Issue

Post by Betamac » Sun Jan 01, 2012 2:04 pm

Right All

I have now tried bith fix options on Steinberg MIDI and Windows - disabled the filter and then tried each configuaration, and used the system timestamp.

have plugged to a different Firewire

nothing changes the problem

Have emailed Focusrite about this. Theres one thing to try yet, going on to a legacy driver (even though the driver I'm using is the latest and stated to be compatible with W7)

After that Im stuck
PC - Intel 3930k Hex core (oc'd at 4.5 gig), 16G DDR Ram, Windows 10 64 bit, Sapphire ATI Radeon 5770 Graphics, Big Screen in front, smaller screen at side. Cubase 64 Bit - Ozone 6, T Racks S3, Komplete 7 - Various Waves plugs. Focusrite PRO24Dsp - Yamaha HS80 Monitors, Audio Technica ATH M50 headphones. Logitech G600 mouse. Comfy Chair, 2 Pg Tips chimps.

Betamac
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Re: Strange Timing Issue

Post by Betamac » Sun Jan 01, 2012 2:08 pm

If I cant fix this would a seperate midi interface via USB (avail for £30) be an option

cos I didn't have this problem before using my EDIROL UA25 (but it only had 2 inputs, 2 outputs thats why I upgraded ......upgrade lol)
PC - Intel 3930k Hex core (oc'd at 4.5 gig), 16G DDR Ram, Windows 10 64 bit, Sapphire ATI Radeon 5770 Graphics, Big Screen in front, smaller screen at side. Cubase 64 Bit - Ozone 6, T Racks S3, Komplete 7 - Various Waves plugs. Focusrite PRO24Dsp - Yamaha HS80 Monitors, Audio Technica ATH M50 headphones. Logitech G600 mouse. Comfy Chair, 2 Pg Tips chimps.

Conman
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Re: Strange Timing Issue

Post by Conman » Sun Jan 01, 2012 3:20 pm

New year greetings. It looks now as if your best option at the moment is to continue contacting support of both your Soundcard and Steinberg.
You could also look at something like the Sound on Sound forums to see if you can get an overview of the problem as you can get quite cloistered in the Cubase forum and end up just getting one-line comments that don't really help.
Asus P6T deluxe; Core i7 920 2.67gHz; 12gig ram; Win7 Pro SP1; Roland Octa-Capture usb inteface; Cubase 6; and no 3rd party additions couple of hard drives PSU 750watt; NVidia GE Force 9600.
"An entrepreneur accepts that the world is the way that it is and goes about changing it rather than waiting for someone to make it easy for them."

Guest

Re: Strange Timing Issue

Post by Guest » Sun Jan 01, 2012 4:15 pm

One you got the Emulated Ports to show, did you select it as the input of the track?

Betamac
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Re: Strange Timing Issue

Post by Betamac » Sun Jan 01, 2012 8:44 pm

UPDATE

So I fired up a demo of Propellerhead Reason 6.0.1 That I have sitting on my system. Wanted to see if I get the same problem

And loaded a Piano, and set the click on, and rolled a few bars, played in a sequence of notes, then played it back and it sounded exactly as it should.

I have also loaded up a Cubase template 'electro production' , set it into record, played a riff on a track that was set up and it behaved itself. Then randomly picked a finished project, loaded it, picked a spot on a track that was clear, played a riff, same timing problems..Does this mean its worse when the system has more to cope with?

This is weird

Mashedmitten - will try this to make sure
PC - Intel 3930k Hex core (oc'd at 4.5 gig), 16G DDR Ram, Windows 10 64 bit, Sapphire ATI Radeon 5770 Graphics, Big Screen in front, smaller screen at side. Cubase 64 Bit - Ozone 6, T Racks S3, Komplete 7 - Various Waves plugs. Focusrite PRO24Dsp - Yamaha HS80 Monitors, Audio Technica ATH M50 headphones. Logitech G600 mouse. Comfy Chair, 2 Pg Tips chimps.

GlennAnnett
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Re: Strange Timing Issue

Post by GlennAnnett » Sun Jan 01, 2012 11:27 pm

Hi,

Under device set-up have you enabled "direct monitoring"? I solved my problem by enabling this and then ticking the "time strap" box.


A quick note to whoever added the little bit of sarcasm to one of my posts. I am moaning on here because my last two "Support Requests" have never been answered! The last time I spent money phoning Germany was to find out that there was no differential between zero's and capital 0's on an activation code. :x

Betamac
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Re: Strange Timing Issue

Post by Betamac » Mon Jan 02, 2012 1:35 am

Tried everything ! Tried everything I can find on websites, plus the advice kindly offered here.

I'm gutted, seems like I've spent £250 on a Soundcard that can't get something simple like MIDI right.

Cant believe it!!!

Had a computer years ago that used COM1 with a breakout lead to communicate MIDI, and it was solid, this is crazy..

Alas my computer has no COM1 (retro joystick port)!!! Wish it did I still have that breakout lead, I could try it!

Frustrating.........
PC - Intel 3930k Hex core (oc'd at 4.5 gig), 16G DDR Ram, Windows 10 64 bit, Sapphire ATI Radeon 5770 Graphics, Big Screen in front, smaller screen at side. Cubase 64 Bit - Ozone 6, T Racks S3, Komplete 7 - Various Waves plugs. Focusrite PRO24Dsp - Yamaha HS80 Monitors, Audio Technica ATH M50 headphones. Logitech G600 mouse. Comfy Chair, 2 Pg Tips chimps.

Guest

Re: Strange Timing Issue

Post by Guest » Mon Jan 02, 2012 2:20 am

No one else has an un-solvable issue like this so it has to be something specific to your system. I'd do a complete re-install of everything from Cubase to the soundcard drivers making sure to delete the Cubase Prefs files and update all drivers to latest. I'd try it again in a new, blank project to see if something there is corrupt.

$250 is peanuts for a soundcard, so it very well could be junk. Like I said, I'd wipe the slate clean and start from scratch.

Betamac
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Re: Strange Timing Issue

Post by Betamac » Mon Jan 02, 2012 12:47 pm

Hmm

Well my £130 Edirol behaved with MIDI, and £250 (GBP not dollars), is enough to pay.

Gonna contact Steinberg customer support tomorrow, wait to see what Focusrite say,

Spend £30 on a midi via usb only device to see if theres any improvement, which I can return if it doesn't work, and go from there.

I'll do a re install after all that has failed.

I think there's got to be a simple answer just havent yet found it, for now at least I'll put up with having to alter things drastically in the Editor to correct the timing until I can rid myself of this problem. But my suspicion is that I should have stuck with USB.
PC - Intel 3930k Hex core (oc'd at 4.5 gig), 16G DDR Ram, Windows 10 64 bit, Sapphire ATI Radeon 5770 Graphics, Big Screen in front, smaller screen at side. Cubase 64 Bit - Ozone 6, T Racks S3, Komplete 7 - Various Waves plugs. Focusrite PRO24Dsp - Yamaha HS80 Monitors, Audio Technica ATH M50 headphones. Logitech G600 mouse. Comfy Chair, 2 Pg Tips chimps.

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Scab Pickens
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Re: Strange Timing Issue

Post by Scab Pickens » Mon Jan 02, 2012 9:13 pm

You still haven't tried switching to the Windows Legacy FireWire Driver?

From the Focusrite website .....
Image

I'm not saying it will solve your problems but it's worth trying. I'm using it for my PRO 40 without any issues.
Win 10 Home | Cubase Pro 10.5 | WaveLab Elements 8 | i7-950 12GB | Focusrite Pro 40

Betamac
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Re: Strange Timing Issue

Post by Betamac » Mon Jan 02, 2012 9:51 pm

Hey Scab Pickens - thanks for chiming in, as a focusrite user it helps ? but is your keyboard (the novation) actually hooked up for midi and talking to Cubase via MIDI or is it communicating its note data via USB?

Update
I have just installed the legacy driver (I had already done this at one point and reverted back, but neglected to mention)

I've Ticked - use system timestamp for directmusic.

And I'm now plugged back in to my Texas Instruments PCI express Card. (the texas instruments chipset hailed as the best for focusrite)

the results I'm getting now seem more stable, This combination seems to be the best, but not accurate though.

Also in the VST Audio System, under ASIO Saffire (my card), I have ticked 'externally clocked'...Hmm now from the manual this shouldn't make any difference to the problem I'm having but hey Its getting better so will leave it that way for now.

I also selected 'restore defaults' on the soundcards mixer software.

Want to thank you all for putting solutions forward, keep em coming , I really appreciate your help ;) Im still not fixed yet.... :(
PC - Intel 3930k Hex core (oc'd at 4.5 gig), 16G DDR Ram, Windows 10 64 bit, Sapphire ATI Radeon 5770 Graphics, Big Screen in front, smaller screen at side. Cubase 64 Bit - Ozone 6, T Racks S3, Komplete 7 - Various Waves plugs. Focusrite PRO24Dsp - Yamaha HS80 Monitors, Audio Technica ATH M50 headphones. Logitech G600 mouse. Comfy Chair, 2 Pg Tips chimps.

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