Classical Guitar Indications

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MCDM
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Classical Guitar Indications

Post by MCDM » Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:33 pm

Hi

In Dorico 3, how do you add a position number to the barre (C) or half-barre playing technique, please?

Looking round, I can see that some folk have created their own playing techniques. Can I ask how they have set up the correct font size as my initial trials (using roman numerals) trying various fonts are currently too big/small; I seem unable to specify font size at the point of creating the new PT??

Many thanks

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Re: Classical Guitar Indications

Post by Dan S » Sat Sep 14, 2019 8:25 pm

I just used the default - "playing techniques font". It looks fine
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Barre.PNG
(11.98 KiB) Not downloaded yet

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Re: Classical Guitar Indications

Post by MCDM » Sat Sep 14, 2019 9:12 pm

Thanks Dan, that's helpful. Does this mean that I cannot simply append a number to existing C and half-C symbols in the popover? Though I recognise that one could put free text next to it, once in place ………

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Daniel at Steinberg
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Re: Classical Guitar Indications

Post by Daniel at Steinberg » Sat Sep 14, 2019 9:18 pm

I'm afraid that, for now at least, it does mean that: you will need to define new playing techniques based on the existing barre symbols that include the additional numbers. We plan to have a better way to do this in future, but for the time being this is the best way to do it.

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Re: Classical Guitar Indications

Post by Fuzzface » Sat Sep 14, 2019 10:22 pm

Here´s how I do it. I add my barre symbol (shift+p). Then I press Ctrl+8 and in the alternative text box, I write the position number in roman numerals. If I want to use the same position numbers again in my project, I just copy/paste.
Works pretty good!

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Re: Classical Guitar Indications

Post by MCDM » Sat Sep 14, 2019 10:38 pm

Thanks everyone for your thoughts - I had been puzzling over this and now I have some useful options.

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Re: Classical Guitar Indications

Post by Dan S » Sat Sep 14, 2019 11:17 pm

Fuzzface, how to you add extension lines?

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Re: Classical Guitar Indications

Post by Fuzzface » Sun Sep 15, 2019 12:42 am

Just select the notes before pressing shift+p. You can also edit the continuation lines in engrave mode/playing techniques.
There´s a great video on youtube called "Playing Techniques Improvements" that explains all this.

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Re: Classical Guitar Indications

Post by andyforrest » Mon Sep 16, 2019 11:50 am

Thanks for that, Fuzzface - works well and easily.
Just off now to add a Bartók pizz.(I do wish predictive text would stop changing this to pizza!!) to the guitar Playing Techniques.
I'll try to copy the violin one - unless there's a way to borrow it for guitar?
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Re: Classical Guitar Indications

Post by andyforrest » Mon Sep 16, 2019 12:58 pm

Dan S - I do like your image above but I have a couple of points -
1. I have a space between the C glyph and the start of the text but you don't.
How did you manage to remove that?

2. I note that using shift-X produces a slightly larger font than that of the glyph and ctl--8 text.
Going to Engrave mode->Paragraph Styles->Default text and reducing the size by one 'click' seems to have done the job.
(I'm not sure how to set this as a permanent default - perhaps it is already!)
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Re: Classical Guitar Indications

Post by Dan S » Mon Sep 16, 2019 5:12 pm

I don't use shift x at all. I created p.t.s for CI through CX and 1/2CI through 1/2 CXII. I also created p.t.s with just Roman numerals I through XIV for position indicators. I used Alt+0189 for the one-half symbols.

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Re: Classical Guitar Indications

Post by andyforrest » Tue Sep 17, 2019 11:33 pm

Good idea - I may well go for that.
Do you just put CI, CII ... or something like that for the term that comes up in the popover?
(Rather than have to go through the full barré, half barré option)
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Re: Classical Guitar Indications

Post by Dan S » Wed Sep 18, 2019 4:51 pm

I do. You can label them anything you want.

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Re: Classical Guitar Indications

Post by andyforrest » Wed Sep 18, 2019 7:12 pm

Excellent
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Re: Classical Guitar Indications

Post by MCDM » Wed Sep 18, 2019 8:25 pm

The way I have things set up currently is, as suggested, to use the Playing Techniques font to generate CI, CV etc. This results, though, in an object much smaller than the standard C glyph. (Other fonts are available!) Does anyone know if the glyph represents a standard size that is intended to 'harmonise' with all the other default directions etc on the page i.e. should we aim to create PTs that are the same size as the default glyph in order to achieve optimum engraving?

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Re: Classical Guitar Indications

Post by Cuenotes » Thu Sep 19, 2019 11:43 am

Where does Dorico store the self created playing techniques? How do I transfer them to another computer? Or can somebody make those CI to CXII available in a file that can be imported in Dorico?

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Re: Classical Guitar Indications

Post by dankreider » Thu Sep 19, 2019 12:39 pm

You can save the file they’re in, and open it on another computer. Then select that PT, Edit it, and click “Save as Default” to make it appear in all projects.
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Re: Classical Guitar Indications

Post by pianoleo » Thu Sep 19, 2019 12:41 pm

Daniel at Steinberg wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:30 am
It's safe to simply copy the whole "Dorico 2" folder from %APPDATA%\Steinberg on Windows or /Users/your-username/Library/Application Support/Steinberg and use it on another machine. That will transfer preferences, key commands, any user-defined library items you've made, etc., etc.
Same goes for the Dorico 3 folder, which is stored at the same location but named “Dorico 3” rather than “Dorico 2”
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Re: Classical Guitar Indications

Post by Concha » Thu Sep 19, 2019 6:42 pm

Dan S wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 4:51 pm
I do. You can label them anything you want.
Right, I use a big number for the Fret, and a smaller for the amount of strings the barre/finger should press, then a dotted line for the duration of the Barre.
Like C5 3..................... (where 3 would be much smaller).

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Re: Classical Guitar Indications

Post by Esermon » Sun Sep 22, 2019 8:59 pm

Daniel at Steinberg wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 9:18 pm
I'm afraid that, for now at least, it does mean that: you will need to define new playing techniques based on the existing barre symbols that include the additional numbers. We plan to have a better way to do this in future, but for the time being this is the best way to do it.
I'm stunned that this feature is not part of Dorico with version 3. To say that you have guitar fingerings is mostly correct (by the way, you did a great job with both left hand, right hand and string notation). The job is not finished, though. I look forward to using Dorico once this feature is added. I should have known better and tested Dorico 3 before upgrading. I'm not very happy with Steinberg claims that guitar notation was part of version 3 to find out that it is incomplete... Shame on me for trusting you folks.

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Re: Classical Guitar Indications

Post by MarcLarcher » Sun Sep 22, 2019 9:08 pm

Dear Esermont,
You have Dorico 3.0... Wait until the whole 3 cycle is over to "judge" the team. I am quite confident that they will make good use of the feedback 😉
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Re: Classical Guitar Indications

Post by Derrek » Sun Sep 22, 2019 10:45 pm

I'm pretty sure one could download the release notes before buying the software. I'm shocked people don't read these things if they are counting on a feature. :o
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Re: Classical Guitar Indications

Post by Esermon » Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:20 am

Derrek wrote:
Sun Sep 22, 2019 10:45 pm
I'm pretty sure one could download the release notes before buying the software. I'm shocked people don't read these things if they are counting on a feature. :o
I don't see their release notes on Dorico's website but I doubt they includes what is missing from Dorico 3 offer.

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Re: Classical Guitar Indications

Post by Esermon » Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:46 am

MarcLarcher wrote:
Sun Sep 22, 2019 9:08 pm
Dear Esermont,
You have Dorico 3.0... Wait until the whole 3 cycle is over to "judge" the team. I am quite confident that they will make good use of the feedback 😉
I have been waiting since Jan 2017 when I purchased Dorico, for the classical guitar notation. I had hoped since version 3 was advertised as having "sophisticated support for classical guitar notations" that it would include the basics. Roman Numeral fret locations can be found in ANY beginning classical guitar book of any consequence. In my copy of Christoper Parkening, Guitar Method, Vol. 1, copyright 1972, p. 70.

“The Bar. The bar is a required part of guitar technique. It alludes to depressing more than one string simultaneously on a single fret with the first or index finger of the left hand. It is used to facilitate fingering, most often as an easier way of fingering two or more notes on the same fret…. Notating a bar: The most common notation for a bar is a Roman numeral indicating the fret to be barred…. Sometimes a capital B (barre in French) or a capital C (cejilla in Spanish) is placed before the Roman numeral. Both means the same – to form a complete bar on the fret indicated by the Roman numeral. So there are three different way to notate a bar. Example: III, BIII, and CIII. When there is a ½ in front of any of these bar notations, then only half of the six strings are barred…. The bar is held for the value of the note or notes it produces. This is generally indicated by a line or dotted line above the staff following the Roman numeral [e.g., ½II]….”

That means that this notation feature should be fundamental and basic to any classical guitar notation package that advertises notation for classical guitar.

Again, Dorico has over promised and under performed.

I am sure the team will get it right. Sibelius 4 was a great package and I am sure Dorico 4 will be the beginning of something really special. I just wish I had waited to cross-grade until Dorico version 4 or 5 and if asked, I would suggest new users should wait until a later release.

So far, I have paid: $279.99 for the cross-grade, $99 for version 2, and $108.39 for version 3. That is $408.38 for a notation package that I can't use because of its lack of features. Sweetwater sells the new version of Dorico 3 for $560 and crossgrade for $280. If I were a lawyer, I would sue Dorico for false advertising and ask for my money back and just wait until version 4 or 5.

No, I am an unhappy customer who has waited long enough.

Thank you in advance and there is no need for anyone to respond to this post, unless they are offering a buyout for existing owners.

Regards...

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Re: Classical Guitar Indications

Post by Daniel at Steinberg » Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:04 am

Esermon, I'm very sorry that you're disappointed with the guitar features in Dorico 3. I will happily create all of the barre indicators you might need up to whichever fret you require, with both B and C at the start, and send you a project with these included.

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