How do I keep Cubase from resetting my articulations upon stopping the transport?

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VV
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How do I keep Cubase from resetting my articulations upon stopping the transport?

Post by VV » Thu Dec 05, 2019 3:10 am

Every time I stop the transport, Cubase resets my articulation to the first one on the expression map list.
This is annoying for obvious reasons.
How do I keep it from doing this?
I want to keep whatever articulation I have selected.

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Re: How do I keep Cubase from resetting my articulations upon stopping the transport?

Post by raino » Thu Dec 05, 2019 3:23 am

You put an empty articulation (i.e. one that does nothing) in the first slot. Just add a new slot & drag to the top.
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Re: How do I keep Cubase from resetting my articulations upon stopping the transport?

Post by VV » Fri Dec 06, 2019 4:59 pm

raino wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 3:23 am
You put an empty articulation (i.e. one that does nothing) in the first slot. Just add a new slot & drag to the top.
I tried this but Cubase still sends a MIDI channel 1 message from the "blank" slot (even though I did not select any messages for this slot).
I use multiples in each instance of Kontakt for instruments with many articulations (Spitfire etc.) and assign each a MIDI channel. If I am using an articulation on any channel but 1, it will get reset up transport stop.

I don't understand why Cubase would be sending any messages if there is no information to chase (nothing recorded on the track yet).

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Re: How do I keep Cubase from resetting my articulations upon stopping the transport?

Post by raino » Fri Dec 06, 2019 9:43 pm

VV wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 4:59 pm
raino wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 3:23 am
You put an empty articulation (i.e. one that does nothing) in the first slot. Just add a new slot & drag to the top.
I tried this but Cubase still sends a MIDI channel 1 message from the "blank" slot (even though I did not select any messages for this slot).
I use multiples in each instance of Kontakt for instruments with many articulations (Spitfire etc.) and assign each a MIDI channel. If I am using an articulation on any channel but 1, it will get reset up transport stop.

I don't understand why Cubase would be sending any messages if there is no information to chase (nothing recorded on the track yet).
When you say it sends a MIDI Ch 1 message, do you know what that message was? I'd assume it wasn't a note-on message that corresponds to keyswitch.

Can you post some screen grabs of a problematic Expression Map with the blank slot selected and also a couple of the other representative slots selected.
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Re: How do I keep Cubase from resetting my articulations upon stopping the transport?

Post by VV » Sat Dec 07, 2019 10:57 pm

I do not know what the message is. There is no "note on" message selected for the blank slot, so it should not be selecting anything.

Here are some screenshots; first the empty slot, then the instrument that it is assigned to.

Note that the empty slot contains no mapping (and no MIDI channel selected).
Expression map empty slot.PNG
(219.53 KiB) Not downloaded yet
SSS Violins 1 Kontakt instrument.PNG
(858.49 KiB) Not downloaded yet
Last edited by VV on Sat Dec 07, 2019 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: How do I keep Cubase from resetting my articulations upon stopping the transport?

Post by VV » Sat Dec 07, 2019 10:59 pm

Next, three different articulations selected from the expression map:

Note that all three articulations use different MIDI channels.
Attachments
Expression map Art1.PNG
(219.02 KiB) Not downloaded yet
Expression map Art2.PNG
(218.54 KiB) Not downloaded yet
Expression map Art3.PNG
(219.17 KiB) Not downloaded yet

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Re: How do I keep Cubase from resetting my articulations upon stopping the transport?

Post by raino » Sat Dec 07, 2019 11:35 pm

OK, I see what you are doing with the multiple instances of SSS and MIDI Channels. I do something similar, although only with 2 instances, in Session Horns Pro because that lets you switch between 12 articulations per instance, but there are more available articulations than 12.

My Map setup, which works, is similar to yours except my Articulation Type is Direction instead of Attribute. With Attributes you are attaching that articulation to specific notes one-by-one. Wonder if that's what you really want. How do the articulations work in SSS? If it is a keyswitch that sets an articulation until another keyswitch changes it, then maybe the Type should be changed. Hope it doesn't come to that as it looks like that would be a lot of editing.
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Re: How do I keep Cubase from resetting my articulations upon stopping the transport?

Post by VV » Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:04 am

raino wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 11:35 pm
My Map setup, which works, is similar to yours except my Articulation Type is Direction instead of Attribute. With Attributes you are attaching that articulation to specific notes one-by-one. Wonder if that's what you really want. How do the articulations work in SSS? If it is a keyswitch that sets an articulation until another keyswitch changes it, then maybe the Type should be changed. Hope it doesn't come to that as it looks like that would be a lot of editing.
I use Attribute because Direction never records properly. I can switch articulations 5 times during a recording but Direction will pick up maybe 3 of those (randomly, not a patterned glitch). Attribute will record all of the switching in one go properly. In the edit window it is easy to assign articulations as Attribute by selecting any notes and clicking one of the articulations in the drop down menu.

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Re: How do I keep Cubase from resetting my articulations upon stopping the transport?

Post by jcbfoos » Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:31 am

+1

I have complained to Steinberg about this. I'm still waiting for a bug fix...
Mac OSX 10.14.x - Cubase 10.0.x - MOTU 1248 - Insane PC running VEP - lots of plugs and libraries...

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Re: How do I keep Cubase from resetting my articulations upon stopping the transport?

Post by raino » Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:49 am

VV wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:04 am
I use Attribute because Direction never records properly. I can switch articulations 5 times during a recording but Direction will pick up maybe 3 of those (randomly, not a patterned glitch). Attribute will record all of the switching in one go properly. In the edit window it is easy to assign articulations as Attribute by selecting any notes and clicking one of the articulations in the drop down menu.
That sounds like something else is involved. If you execute five Direction Articulation changes one after the other your VSTi should always receive all five, not sometimes three & other times who knows. Attributes are only supposed to effect a single note (although a VSTi is gonna respond to incoming data however it is programed, regardless of Cubase's intentions). I'm very suspicious that they are the source of your current reset problem.

If you happen to have an old Direction based Expression Map that worked intermittently could you zip it up and post it here.
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Re: How do I keep Cubase from resetting my articulations upon stopping the transport?

Post by raino » Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:08 am

jcbfoos wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:31 am
+1

I have complained to Steinberg about this. I'm still waiting for a bug fix...
When you say "this" what specifically do you mean - there are a couple of possible "this"-es in the thread.
Are you getting a reset on stop, or are you having a problem where Articulation changes are missed?

Are your Articulations Direction or Attribute? Have you tried the empty first slot trick?

Is it possible these are Mac only issues? The OP doesn't specify anything about their DAW config (which is why we encourage folks to put that info in their signature).
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Re: How do I keep Cubase from resetting my articulations upon stopping the transport?

Post by VV » Wed Dec 11, 2019 5:44 am

raino wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:49 am
That sounds like something else is involved. If you execute five Direction Articulation changes one after the other your VSTi should always receive all five, not sometimes three & other times who knows. Attributes are only supposed to effect a single note (although a VSTi is gonna respond to incoming data however it is programed, regardless of Cubase's intentions). I'm very suspicious that they are the source of your current reset problem.

If you happen to have an old Direction based Expression Map that worked intermittently could you zip it up and post it here.
The VSTi does receive it and performs accordingly (by changing to the articulations I have triggered), but what Cubase records is of its own volition. I know it sounds completely illogical that a computer would behave as such, but it does. I don't have this problem when using Attribute.

And when I say "of its own volition", that's what I mean. I would run the same test over and over and get different results. Cubase would sometimes record a staccato change, and sometimes not (though again, the VSTi itself was following the instructions played live during the recording!).


I understand the concept difference between Direction and Attribute coming from scoring notation, but Attribute will work fine for changing articulations.

I originally used Direction for the expression maps. The issues with transport reset were occurring before I switched over to Attribute.

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Re: How do I keep Cubase from resetting my articulations upon stopping the transport?

Post by VV » Wed Dec 11, 2019 6:09 pm

raino wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:08 am
Is it possible these are Mac only issues? The OP doesn't specify anything about their DAW config (which is why we encourage folks to put that info in their signature).
Windows 10 here.

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Re: How do I keep Cubase from resetting my articulations upon stopping the transport?

Post by raino » Wed Dec 11, 2019 9:46 pm

VV wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 5:44 am
I understand the concept difference between Direction and Attribute coming from scoring notation, but Attribute will work fine for changing articulations.

I originally used Direction for the expression maps. The issues with transport reset were occurring before I switched over to Attribute.
Yeah, I get that both Direction & Attribute types will change the Articulation. But I suspect it might also be the reason the empty slot isn't inhibiting the reset. When you did use Directions did that have an empty 1st slot?

Can't really comment about the Keyboard switches sometimes getting lost since I always hand enter Articulations in the Key Editor. Hopefully someone experienced in playing them live will chime in.
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Re: How do I keep Cubase from resetting my articulations upon stopping the transport?

Post by jcbfoos » Sat Dec 14, 2019 12:17 am

raino wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:08 am
jcbfoos wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:31 am
+1

I have complained to Steinberg about this. I'm still waiting for a bug fix...
When you say "this" what specifically do you mean - there are a couple of possible "this"-es in the thread.
Are you getting a reset on stop, or are you having a problem where Articulation changes are missed?

Are your Articulations Direction or Attribute? Have you tried the empty first slot trick?

Is it possible these are Mac only issues? The OP doesn't specify anything about their DAW config (which is why we encourage folks to put that info in their signature).

Hi Raino,

This is what I'm talking about.

viewtopic.php?f=253&t=117118&p=785557#p785557

Expression maps not being recorded. I've never had it as bad as the OP does with multiple articulations not being recorded but I've told Steinberg about the above bug when selecting one expression map and using retro record. I don't think it's included in the above post, but I've also requested that expression maps hold once selected instead of resetting to 1.
Mac OSX 10.14.x - Cubase 10.0.x - MOTU 1248 - Insane PC running VEP - lots of plugs and libraries...

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Re: How do I keep Cubase from resetting my articulations upon stopping the transport?

Post by Oliver17 » Thu Jan 02, 2020 8:06 pm

Expression Maps have several bugs. I switched back to old-style key switches because of that.

Besides the wrongly or randomly recorded articulations mentioned above, I experienced weird jumps on cc1, even if there is seemingly no data sent. This happened on different PCs, in different Cubase versions.

Regular key switches have the disadvantage that you have to jump to the beginning of a part, where the key switch is recorded. But it is rock solid. I prefer that over the glitchy Expression Maps.
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