Midi timing problem only with external sound module

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Jaytexx
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Midi timing problem only with external sound module

Post by Jaytexx » Mon Feb 25, 2013 7:00 pm

I am having midi latancy/timing problems.

When I play and record midi tracks using VST-instruments like Omnisphere, Stylus RMX, Kontakt 5 or Halion Sonic SE everything works fine.

I am using M-Audio MIDISPORT 2x2 midi interface with latest drivers from M-Audio (64 bit compliant).

When I use my external sound module Roland JV-2080, playing and recording the first midi track works fine, but then as I either play or record a second, third or more tracks it is choppy and lagging in kind of a random way. A few notes may be on time but most of them are triggered too late. But as I mentioned this is ONLY the case with my external sound module. I didn't have this behavior in Cubase 5 on my old DAW, but I think I was using emulated midiports and that ignoreportfilter-thing on that previous XP PC.

In my new system in Cubase 7 I have enabled both "Use System Timestamp for Windows MIDI Inputs" and "Use System Timestamp for 'DirectMusic' Inputs".

I tried looking for help here in the Forum, but couldn't find an exact matching problem to this one.

Can anyone please help me with this problem?
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Intel Core i5-3570K CPU 3.40 GHz, Asus P8z77-v lx Motherboard, 32 Gb RAM, 2 x WD HD, MAudio Delta Audiophile 2492, M-Audio MIDISPORT 2x2

Win7 64, Cubase 8.5 64 bit, Halion3.5, Spectrasonics Stylus RMX, Omnisphere, Trilian, Kontakt 5, Halion Sonic SE.

Guest

Re: Midi timing problem only with external sound module

Post by Guest » Mon Feb 25, 2013 7:09 pm

id be more inclined to think it's the midi sport 2 driver , have you used a program called "midi ox" to test your incoming midi signal ?

or midi monitor on the midi insert to test the tracks your trying to record ?

Jaytexx
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Re: Midi timing problem only with external sound module

Post by Jaytexx » Mon Feb 25, 2013 7:27 pm

filterfreak wrote:id be more inclined to think it's the midi sport 2 driver , have you used a program called "midi ox" to test your incoming midi signal ?

or midi monitor on the midi insert to test the tracks your trying to record ?
I am not familiar with the "midi ox" program. I googgled this and on the relevant webpage it doesn't seem to support Windows 7?

I am not sure what you mean by "midi monitor on the midi insert to test the tracks.."? I'm afraid this is a little beyond my usual getting around Cubase :-/
----------------------------------------------------------------
Intel Core i5-3570K CPU 3.40 GHz, Asus P8z77-v lx Motherboard, 32 Gb RAM, 2 x WD HD, MAudio Delta Audiophile 2492, M-Audio MIDISPORT 2x2

Win7 64, Cubase 8.5 64 bit, Halion3.5, Spectrasonics Stylus RMX, Omnisphere, Trilian, Kontakt 5, Halion Sonic SE.

Guest

Re: Midi timing problem only with external sound module

Post by Guest » Mon Feb 25, 2013 7:31 pm

Jaytexx wrote:
filterfreak wrote:id be more inclined to think it's the midi sport 2 driver , have you used a program called "midi ox" to test your incoming midi signal ?

or midi monitor on the midi insert to test the tracks your trying to record ?
I am not familiar with the "midi ox" program. I googgled this and on the relevant webpage it doesn't seem to support Windows 7?

I am not sure what you mean by "midi monitor on the midi insert to test the tracks.."? I'm afraid this is a little beyond my usual getting around Cubase :-/
ok on midi channel that your recording in the inspector on the left hand side is the midi insert tags ? now if you click on that and select an insert slot you will see in the list "midi monitor" ,if you load that then press the on button on the midi monitor it will read all the info you are playing and recording ,hope this helps

Jaytexx
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Re: Midi timing problem only with external sound module

Post by Jaytexx » Mon Feb 25, 2013 7:42 pm

filterfreak wrote:
Jaytexx wrote:
filterfreak wrote:id be more inclined to think it's the midi sport 2 driver , have you used a program called "midi ox" to test your incoming midi signal ?

or midi monitor on the midi insert to test the tracks your trying to record ?
I am not familiar with the "midi ox" program. I googgled this and on the relevant webpage it doesn't seem to support Windows 7?

I am not sure what you mean by "midi monitor on the midi insert to test the tracks.."? I'm afraid this is a little beyond my usual getting around Cubase :-/
ok on midi channel that your recording in the inspector on the left hand side is the midi insert tags ? now if you click on that and select an insert slot you will see in the list "midi monitor" ,if you load that then press the on button on the midi monitor it will read all the info you are playing and recording ,hope this helps
Okay this is really strange!
In the midi monitor it only shows midi data all on channel 2 - but I can play and record midi on other midi tracks assigned to different midi channels. And the weird thing is that midi data is sent to the sound module and can be played and recorded to the other tracks!?!?

OH - WAIT - sorry, my bad! You have to monitor every single track of course (stupid me!)
Well, I don't know what to look for. The midi monitor shows a lot of data, but there's not like an error reporting or anything. I guess it just shows that the midi traffic is working for all the tracks and the midi channels.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Intel Core i5-3570K CPU 3.40 GHz, Asus P8z77-v lx Motherboard, 32 Gb RAM, 2 x WD HD, MAudio Delta Audiophile 2492, M-Audio MIDISPORT 2x2

Win7 64, Cubase 8.5 64 bit, Halion3.5, Spectrasonics Stylus RMX, Omnisphere, Trilian, Kontakt 5, Halion Sonic SE.

Guest

Re: Midi timing problem only with external sound module

Post by Guest » Mon Feb 25, 2013 7:50 pm

have you got "all midi input " selected as the input in the inspector ?

Jaytexx
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Re: Midi timing problem only with external sound module

Post by Jaytexx » Mon Feb 25, 2013 7:59 pm

filterfreak wrote:have you got "all midi input " selected as the input in the inspector ?
I do now. Just tested again. It seems more stable now but still there are a few of those notes triggered too late. This time recording on one of the tracks a single note on reported in red "Outside prefetch" in red in the midi monitor.

Is this relevant?
----------------------------------------------------------------
Intel Core i5-3570K CPU 3.40 GHz, Asus P8z77-v lx Motherboard, 32 Gb RAM, 2 x WD HD, MAudio Delta Audiophile 2492, M-Audio MIDISPORT 2x2

Win7 64, Cubase 8.5 64 bit, Halion3.5, Spectrasonics Stylus RMX, Omnisphere, Trilian, Kontakt 5, Halion Sonic SE.

Jaytexx
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Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:02 pm
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Re: Midi timing problem only with external sound module

Post by Jaytexx » Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:06 pm

Jaytexx wrote:
filterfreak wrote:have you got "all midi input " selected as the input in the inspector ?
I do now. Just tested again. It seems more stable now but still there are a few of those notes triggered too late. This time recording on one of the tracks a single note on reported in red "Outside prefetch" in red in the midi monitor.

Is this relevant?
______________________

Just did a new test. Timing is still terrible - but it seems that even though I record on a track and notes from the soundmodule sound choppy and late, when I play back the recording it actually sounds like I intended it to be recorded. Meaning that playing back my recording, it sounds and looks like it was actually recorded correctly. This is really weird!!!
----------------------------------------------------------------
Intel Core i5-3570K CPU 3.40 GHz, Asus P8z77-v lx Motherboard, 32 Gb RAM, 2 x WD HD, MAudio Delta Audiophile 2492, M-Audio MIDISPORT 2x2

Win7 64, Cubase 8.5 64 bit, Halion3.5, Spectrasonics Stylus RMX, Omnisphere, Trilian, Kontakt 5, Halion Sonic SE.

Guest

Re: Midi timing problem only with external sound module

Post by Guest » Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:08 pm

try turning off system time stamp

Jaytexx
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Re: Midi timing problem only with external sound module

Post by Jaytexx » Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:21 pm

filterfreak wrote:try turning off system time stamp
For both choices you mean?
----------------------------------------------------------------
Intel Core i5-3570K CPU 3.40 GHz, Asus P8z77-v lx Motherboard, 32 Gb RAM, 2 x WD HD, MAudio Delta Audiophile 2492, M-Audio MIDISPORT 2x2

Win7 64, Cubase 8.5 64 bit, Halion3.5, Spectrasonics Stylus RMX, Omnisphere, Trilian, Kontakt 5, Halion Sonic SE.

Guest

Re: Midi timing problem only with external sound module

Post by Guest » Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:26 pm

yes or one at a time , the midi is not perfect on c7 im doing some tests on a standby daw as ive been getting some odd behaviours but as ive used midex for the last 11 years ive forgotten what the original behaviour of "all midi inputs "

Jaytexx
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Re: Midi timing problem only with external sound module

Post by Jaytexx » Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:34 pm

filterfreak wrote:yes or one at a time , the midi is not perfect on c7 im doing some tests on a standby daw as ive been getting some odd behaviours but as ive used midex for the last 11 years ive forgotten what the original behaviour of "all midi inputs "
I tried all combinations and it just got worse. In the last case with non of them checked, notes sounded the same (choppy/late) as I recorded them, but when playing back the recording, the notes were actually place slightly BEFORE I played them in the recording.

So I don't think turning off any of the system time stamp options is the way to go :-(

Oh, this is really annoying! But I am really glad that you are taking your time to help me!
----------------------------------------------------------------
Intel Core i5-3570K CPU 3.40 GHz, Asus P8z77-v lx Motherboard, 32 Gb RAM, 2 x WD HD, MAudio Delta Audiophile 2492, M-Audio MIDISPORT 2x2

Win7 64, Cubase 8.5 64 bit, Halion3.5, Spectrasonics Stylus RMX, Omnisphere, Trilian, Kontakt 5, Halion Sonic SE.

Guest

Re: Midi timing problem only with external sound module

Post by Guest » Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:38 pm

yes leaving the midi time stamp on for both is the way forward then . is auto quantize on in the transport panel when you record ?

Jaytexx
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Re: Midi timing problem only with external sound module

Post by Jaytexx » Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:43 pm

No - I never use auto quantize.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Intel Core i5-3570K CPU 3.40 GHz, Asus P8z77-v lx Motherboard, 32 Gb RAM, 2 x WD HD, MAudio Delta Audiophile 2492, M-Audio MIDISPORT 2x2

Win7 64, Cubase 8.5 64 bit, Halion3.5, Spectrasonics Stylus RMX, Omnisphere, Trilian, Kontakt 5, Halion Sonic SE.

Guest

Re: Midi timing problem only with external sound module

Post by Guest » Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:46 pm

uumm and you have the correct buffer sizes in you asio settings ? is the midi thru active in the preferences , some times it can mirror the midi data back to the module but ive only heard of this a couple of times over the years but it's worth a stab

Jaytexx
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Re: Midi timing problem only with external sound module

Post by Jaytexx » Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:51 pm

What would be the correct buffer size? My M-Audio soundcard is set to 256.

Yes, midi thru is active. I was also looking there suspecting that it could be some sysex-data messing stuff up. But it looks right and all set as default.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Intel Core i5-3570K CPU 3.40 GHz, Asus P8z77-v lx Motherboard, 32 Gb RAM, 2 x WD HD, MAudio Delta Audiophile 2492, M-Audio MIDISPORT 2x2

Win7 64, Cubase 8.5 64 bit, Halion3.5, Spectrasonics Stylus RMX, Omnisphere, Trilian, Kontakt 5, Halion Sonic SE.

Guest

Re: Midi timing problem only with external sound module

Post by Guest » Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:08 pm

you could try turning the midi thru of to see if it makes any differences and filter the sysex on the record but apart from that i think it might be advisable just to reinstall the midisport driver ...... i must admit i did have a midi sport 2 when it first came out but found the timing was pretty lame to be honest . :(
I doubt very much it's the jv2080

Jaytexx
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Re: Midi timing problem only with external sound module

Post by Jaytexx » Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:23 pm

filterfreak wrote:you could try turning the midi thru of to see if it makes any differences and filter the sysex on the record but apart from that i think it might be advisable just to reinstall the midisport driver ...... i must admit i did have a midi sport 2 when it first came out but found the timing was pretty lame to be honest . :(
I doubt very much it's the jv2080
Okay thanks, I'll try that as a last resort. But for the record I will say this: I've been using this same little midisport-dude for more than 10 years and through 4 versions of Cubase, and it has been rock solid.

I've submitted a request for help at Steinberg. I hope they can help.

I think some things still seem a bit shaky in Cubase 7. Before the latest update I also had problems with my project window freezing up but still being able to use key commands to play, record, turn metronome on/off etc. while nothing was reacting on the screen in the project window. That is until I minimized all windows and brought them back up again. I thought it was related to my 3 monitor-setup. But it seemed to be fixed with version 7.0.2.

Anyway, thank you so much for helping me out! :D :)
----------------------------------------------------------------
Intel Core i5-3570K CPU 3.40 GHz, Asus P8z77-v lx Motherboard, 32 Gb RAM, 2 x WD HD, MAudio Delta Audiophile 2492, M-Audio MIDISPORT 2x2

Win7 64, Cubase 8.5 64 bit, Halion3.5, Spectrasonics Stylus RMX, Omnisphere, Trilian, Kontakt 5, Halion Sonic SE.

Guest

Re: Midi timing problem only with external sound module

Post by Guest » Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:37 pm

no problem ,sorry i couldn't be much more help ,maybe someone else has an idea . some times a midi driver has been loaded on top of they can get corupted thats why i suggested reinstalling

i use a fully loaded jv2080 myself so i know how you must be feeling . best of luck getting it sorted ;)

ps if you need any xml device files including the expansions just let us know ;)

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