DONE! User defined beat: Grid,Compound time,odd meter,Click

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DONE! User defined beat: Grid,Compound time,odd meter,Click

Post by -steve- » Mon Feb 18, 2013 5:46 am

Please implement the facility to set the beat value ourselves, and to make grid be configurable for odd meters and compound time signatures.

As it stands if the sig is 11/16 the grid will be quarter, quarter dotted 8th, but the groove might not flow like that, and if I want to group it, say, 4, 3, 4, I am out of luck. Cubase just puts the grid lines at quarters and then truncates the measure. 11/16 yields 2 quarter notes and a dotted 8th; 12/16, 3 quarters; and 13/16 3 quarters plus a 16th note.

This is common in Greek, Balkan, Arabic, contemporary classical music, Flamenco (and many other musics)

What I want to be able to do is configure measures using values. e.g.: (4,3,4)/16 or (4,3)/8, or (4,3,3,4)/16

Can we please have customizable grids in the project window and editors?

This could also satisfy the lacking support for compound time signatures, see below viewtopic.php?f=182&t=35036&p=239649#p239649
Last edited by -steve- on Sun Nov 10, 2013 2:36 am, edited 13 times in total.
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Re: Configurable grids for odd meter time sigs

Post by mozizo » Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:16 am

what about using as follow ?
from your example 11/16 with 4/16 - 3/16 - 4/16 then duplicate/repeat them in tempo track.

a pic example
tempo t.jpg
(256.78 KiB) Not downloaded yet
this way u also hear the click on the down bits u want
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Re: Configurable grids for odd meter time sigs

Post by mozizo » Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:20 am

but would be nice to have "sub time signature editor" to follow the groove and grids u want
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Re: Configurable grids for odd meter time sigs

Post by -steve- » Wed Feb 20, 2013 8:33 am

mozizo wrote:what about using as follow ?
from your example 11/16 with 4/16 - 3/16 - 4/16 then duplicate/repeat them in tempo track

this way u also hear the click on the down bits u want
Yes! This is exactly how I do it now. And yes, it does give the right metronome.

However, it becomes problematic when I go to Score Edit. I can hide the time sigs on every bar, then I would have to hide barlines.

It would be nice to simply be able to set up the grid using numbers like: 4+3+4/16 or even simply 3+3+2, and have the metronome follow.

Digital Performer's metronome is can be configured exactly like this. (though whether it does custom grids like this I don't know.)
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Re: Configurable grids for odd meter time sigs

Post by mozizo » Wed Feb 20, 2013 8:35 pm

well i welcome this feature too.. didnt think about score, its going to be a mass and time consuming has it is now with odd meters and groove click/grids
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Re: Configurable grids for odd meter time sigs

Post by -steve- » Wed Feb 20, 2013 8:36 pm

Yay. I have been wanting this forever.

Also would like to be able to create a pattern based metronome, rather than have to create a click track. That's a separate feature request...
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Metronome click patterns/Programmable click track

Post by -steve- » Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:52 pm

(this post was merged from another thread...)

Implement a feature where we can create patterns in the Cubase metronome, and save them as presets, and where we can set the value of the beat, and have that define the grid.

Yes, I know you are thinking, why not create a click track? well, for one thing, a nice implementation of this for the Cubase click would permit
- including the click in a mix-down
- controlling its volume from the control room
- the use of (non x/4) audio clicks within the metronome dialog
- Automating the click
and it would be faster to create and faster to change.

Example:
11/16: 1 2 1 2 1 2 3 1 2 1 2
7/8: 1 2 3 4 1 2 3

I want to add (just in case) that the pattern should not be limited to a low number of cells, such as is the case with the Score Time Signature dialog.
Last edited by -steve- on Sat May 31, 2014 12:29 am, edited 8 times in total.
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Re: Metronome click patterns

Post by marQs » Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:19 am

+1!

We need another track category, the fully programmable click track, utilizing Cubase' onboard click.
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Re: Metronome click patterns/Programmable click track

Post by moondog » Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:50 pm

+1

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Re: Metronome click patterns/Programmable click track

Post by chase » Tue Mar 12, 2013 2:02 am

No, by accepting the Terms and Conditions, Cubase users agree to use only 4/4.

While the program does give a superficial appearance of allowing other time signatures, this does NOT imply that Steinberg actually condones such practice. For instance, the metronome and grid lines have been specifically designed to discourage compound time, and a little-known feature of Cubase is its ability to give a painful electric shock to anyone who persists in attempting to use anything but 4/4.

The metronome in (the by-then-tablet-only) C12 will just be a synthesised voice shouting ONE TWO THREE FOUR, but that'll be OK because the only people who'll still buy the (new toy-style, touch-only) Cubase will have no idea that other time signatures are possible. Happy little people. See them smiling. The Cubase screen it pretty and they can touch it.

See the pretty screen. Touch the pretty screen. Life is good. One two three four, one two three four, one two three four, ...

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Re: Metronome click patterns/Programmable click track

Post by -steve- » Tue Mar 12, 2013 2:17 am

Chase, You're freaking hilarious. And yes, of course. I run everything I write by Helge before printing to vinyl, and previous to Helge, Chris B, all the way back to Charlie himself. (Or the guys at Steinberg/Jones, if you're in the States – remember?)

By the way, did you know you can get any grid you want using groove templates? (but that doesn't carry over to anything besides the grid of course)

And Chase, howse about a nice +1 for the request? I could happen. DP8 is coming out for the PC (someday) there will be a new hew and cry - Digital Performer has it why don't we?! Waaa! For composing in midi and scoring to picture that's the real competition.

(Also, Roland/Boss actually makes a metronome that shouts ONE, TWO, THREE, FOUR, so SB might have to fight it out with Roland for that. Unless it's YaRolmaha by then.)
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Re: Metronome click patterns/Programmable click track

Post by harcourt » Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:12 am

+1
...A very good request. I would also like optional default voices exclaiming in native German, with each count-in prefixed by a mandatory "Achtung!". A selection of well known voices from the nefarious to the hilarious would be candy on top.
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Re: Metronome click patterns/Programmable click track

Post by chase » Fri Mar 15, 2013 6:24 pm

SteveInChicago wrote:And Chase, howse about a nice +1 for the request? I could happen. DP8 is coming out for the PC (someday) there will be a new hew and cry - Digital Performer has it why don't we?!
A few days late, but, yes:
+1

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Re: Metronome click patterns/Programmable click track

Post by BriHar » Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:09 am

SteveInChicago wrote:(Also, Roland/Boss actually makes a metronome that shouts ONE, TWO, THREE, FOUR, so SB might have to fight it out with Roland for that. Unless it's YaRolmaha by then.)
Perhaps Ein, Zwei, Drei, Vier... would counter any infringement?

YARolmaha? I thought it would be Rolaha exept for in the Bahamas where it would be called Yamand.
:lol:

Forgot to mention re. the click patterns:
+1
Last edited by BriHar on Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Metronome click patterns/Programmable click track

Post by -steve- » Mon Mar 18, 2013 2:32 pm

YaVolmaha.

Bri how bout a +1 while you're at it?
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Re: Metronome click patterns/Programmable click track

Post by bigbluebarry » Fri Mar 22, 2013 7:39 am

+1
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Compound time, odd meter click and grid improvements

Post by -steve- » Fri Mar 29, 2013 6:13 pm

I thought I would bump this to point out an (obvious) additional benefit that would come from implementing this request: Compound time signatures.

An example would be: In 6/8 the beat can be either the 8th or the dotted quarter.

The heavy lines in the grid should fall on the beat, But Cubase doesn't do that, and the metronome just marks the numerator's number of beats per measure (top number in the sig)

While it is possible to go into metronome settings and adjust it to 3/8 count base to get the metronome simply on 1 and 4,activating the count base option means the click will not change along with the time signatures.

It comes down to the fact that we need to able to set the beat value ourselves.

I updated the OP and subject line too.
Last edited by -steve- on Tue May 21, 2013 8:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: User defined the beat values: Compound time and odd meter

Post by r.u.sirius » Fri Mar 29, 2013 6:53 pm

such a feature would be great, no need to build an individual click track with my trusty cowbell sample anymore!
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Re: User defined beat values: Compound time and odd meter

Post by Crotchety » Fri Apr 12, 2013 1:21 am

SteveInChicago wrote:In 6/8 the beat can be either the 8th or the dotted quarter.
You're right, the grid is wrong for a 6/8. It should be 2 beats of triplets. At the very least, the bold line should be at 1.4, even if they don't change the labels.

I don't want to get into the horrors of 11/16 (you into jazz or something?) but I wish you well with your campaign.
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Re: User defined beat values: Compound time and odd meter

Post by -steve- » Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:41 am

Hi Crochety.

Yeah, I play jazz, but the odd meter stuff is from Balkan, Romanian and other Oriental type musics.

Also, Metal heads are into odd meters, they are fun to play with. Thanks!
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Re: Metronome click patterns/Programmable click track

Post by -steve- » Thu May 30, 2013 4:03 pm

It's been a couple months since I bumped this, but there a bunch of new faces on the forum, and Digital Performer 8 for Windows has been released. (DP 8 has this metronome)

So... bump.
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Re: Metronome click patterns/Programmable click track

Post by mozizo » Thu May 30, 2013 6:08 pm

See the pretty screen. Touch the pretty screen. Life is good. One two three four, one two three four, one two three four, ...
LOL.. :lol:
One two three four FIVE----- :o Five ?? Five ? where that five came from ? what five got to do with music..?? :roll:
O.K i can deal with five ill count.. one two three five..one two three five :!:

+1
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Re: Metronome click patterns/Programmable click track

Post by Puma0382 » Thu May 30, 2013 7:30 pm

yes - looked quite comprehensive in DP8 (from what I recall of the trial I did, which has since run out..).
So +1
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Re: User defined beat values: Grid,Compound time,odd meter,Click

Post by dr4kan » Sat Jul 20, 2013 8:03 pm

+1

I also work very often with odd signatures. In addition to the request of the post, I would also ask the possibility od setting the click patterns of the metronome track. I try to clarify the point:

let's take a 7/8 signature. The metronome will play at every 1/8th, however we musicians often "count" a 7/8 as a 3/4 + 1/8...I almost never "count" all the 1/8th...it's a mess!

So, I'd like to set the metronome track to "count" in this way ;)
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Re: User defined beat values: Grid,Compound time,odd meter,Click

Post by suntower » Sat Jul 20, 2013 10:31 pm

A big two snaps up.

Also: not just useful for 'odd' meters. Take something like Flamenco which may 'feel' like 12/8 or 9/8 to civilians but that's not how it's -counted- or =felt=.

On that note, I would LOVE to have the some sort of tie-in with the metronome so the accented note(s) would auto-magically change to reflect changes in the grid.
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