Cubase6, HSO & Expression Maps

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Dave Wise
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Cubase6, HSO & Expression Maps

Post by Dave Wise »

I can't get this combination to work properly.

Maybe I'm doing something wrong.

VLNS Combi 2
In fact all HSO instruments.
I can initiate the Expression Map, but to get it to work, I have to initially activate the expression maps live from a midi keyboard.
I can't reload a song, and have the expression map call the chosen expression.
E.G. before the melody, I have C0 play Tremelo.
Even though there is a C0 before the melody in the key editor, Cubase ignores this note data.
It has to first have a live midi input of C0, before the expression map will work.

The Latch function will not work until I click latch / unlatch / latch in the expression map editor.

Therefore, it is impossible to have a Cubase song, with the right expression maps, and associated notes, playback the arrangement as saved.

Viola Combi Solo
It defaults to Trills WT
Not the most pleasing expression to default to.
Once having gone through the agro above, to get the expression maps to work:
It will choose from the 12 available expressions / articulations.

But for some reason, it will play these AND the Trills WT.
It plays 2 articulations at once - always.
(It will play just the one articulation - the Trills WT - only with the expression map not loaded)
Also, the latch just doesn't work at all for this expression map.

Shame really, because the HSO sounds quite nice, but trying to get the Expression Maps to work for the last 4 hours, somewhat ruins expectations.

Also, in the Expression Map inspector:
We can see articulations, but why not put a simple switch (note-on) next to each articulation to choose the corresponding expression?
Instead, we have to choose it from our master keyboard.

Which if you're using a portable usb keyboard, makes it very frustrating.
In fact, unless you're using it with your 127 note master keyboard, it's pretty un-use-able.

What I do like about the expression maps is:
When they're eventually working - they're probably going to be a great idea.
I also like the default of having the Modulation CC1 setup to control the volume in HSO.

Hopefully - I'm doing something wrong.
Or I haven't set something up properly - would sadly mean I'm finding it fairly unintuitive at the moment.

I couldn't find a video for how to use the expression maps / note expression either.

Looking forward for any helpful advice.

Best.

The Oracle
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Re: Cubase6, HSO & Expression Maps

Post by The Oracle »

Not sure if I got it right, but you know that you can easily paint in the expression in the expression lane in the key editor (and of course in the Score editor)?

Dave Wise
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Re: Cubase6, HSO & Expression Maps

Post by Dave Wise »

Thanks "The Oracle", very helpful.

The key editor method works with the Expression Map Lane - it's a solution at least.
A bit like painting by numbers for me at the moment, but I'll see how I get on with it.
It doesn't come across as an 'immediate' enough solution for getting ideas down quickly.

I was hoping I'd be able to choose the Articulations with midi notes, like Dimensions with the VSL libraries in either Giga-Studio, or Kontakt4, by simply pressing a midi note.
I can't get it to reliably work this way in C6 with the Expression Maps.

The Oracle
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Re: Cubase6, HSO & Expression Maps

Post by The Oracle »

Hi Dave,
I've just checked it and here it does also work with midi note input. If you prefer that method you have to set the expression map to "no map".

Dave Wise
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Re: Cubase6, HSO & Expression Maps

Post by Dave Wise »

Thank you again.

Yes - no expression maps for actually playing the instrument in seems to work best for me.

But the Expression Maps are great for editing, and I can see how they tie in with the score editor.

I like the HSO library, it sounds very polished and it's very playable.
Very 'Yamaha' - which is a good thing.

Ian s
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Re: Cubase6, HSO & Expression Maps

Post by Ian s »

Sorry no help or advice, but

I agree, a full size keyboard so you can get at the key switches really helps.

And I love the sounds and the crescendo control from the mod wheel.

I must say the whole expression map thing was frustratingly not really doing it for me in C5, although I'm sure there were some user issues too with me :D, but at first glance Halion sonic looks as if it will be a vast improvement when working with the HSO
C10.5 Pro | W10 | MR 816CSX, 3x MR 816X | CC121| ES-175D | ES-345

Arnd
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Re: Cubase6, HSO & Expression Maps

Post by Arnd »

Of course you can use the Expression Maps for recording - both for recording the articulations with the notes, or seperately when overdubbing. What you can't do is adding a map to an existing project and expect the key switch MIDI notes to turn into VST Expression. The way VST Expression works is that incoming MIDI signales (from your MIDI keyboard) are routed through the map. Depending on the current map the articulation key switches are separated from the "musical" MIDI notes. So this is happening on the input, not the output of the track. That's why you don't hear a change when inserting a map into a track that has previously been recorded without mapping.

Makes sense?

So, 2 ways to use VST Expression:
- record it live or as overdub
- draw the expression events in the key editor

Hope this helps.

Mongol
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Re: Cubase6, HSO & Expression Maps

Post by Mongol »

Picking up on this discussion sometime later (now July 2011).

I am have similar frustrations with Expression Maps.

List in no particular order:
1) Once you start painting Articulations in the controller section of key editor, the default becomes Trills WT. You have to rewind to the start of the song to get your chosen articulations (not Trills WT) to re-activate. This means it is difficult to perform note edits in the middle of the song, without the annoying Trills WT making impossible to hear your edits.

2) I have one track I wrote with expression map loaded, but had not yet painted any articulations. 90% of the track is legato notes, which was working fine. I then I painted a few articulations (pizzicato), and the the legato section has gone silent. I can only hear anything if I paint the whole track Trills or Tremolo!!

3) On one composition, I have been doing fine (not painting articulations, but expression maps were loaded). I have saved the song every 10 bars or so - such as:

*.cpr Flie save1: Saved to Bar 90
*.cpr Flie save2: Saved to Bar 100
*.cpr Flie save3: Saved to Bar 110 etc..

I then started painitng articulations on the *.cpr Files Save3: Saved to Bar 110... and started encountering the problems above. Wierd part, when I close that file completely, and load(say) *.cpr File Save: Saved to Bar 90...

The articulations problems now persist.

This leads me to think that something permanent is being changed in the HALion Sonic VST Instrument Plugin?

Anyhow, would love to know if there is a forum somewhere of people who use Cubase6, HSO and Exprssion Maps (classical music mostly) where these kind of issues are discussed by many, frequently.

Thank you.
Mongol













Running Cubase6 v64Bit on Win 7 64Bit
Cubase6 App: 6.0.2.291
HALion Sonic VST: v1.5.2

zzjrh7
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Re: Cubase6, HSO & Expression Maps

Post by zzjrh7 »

I am experiencing pretty much all the same problems. And it is driving me crazy ! Have you had any luck getting Steinberg to address these issues ? I cant.....

Jim ....

zzjrh7
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Re: Cubase6, HSO & Expression Maps

Post by zzjrh7 »

Anyhow, would love to know if there is a forum somewhere of people who use Cubase6, HSO and Exprssion Maps (classical music mostly) where these kind of issues are discussed by many, frequently.

Thank you.
Mongol


I agree we need a forum for the classical use of cubase including these important topics !

Jim....










Running Cubase6 v64Bit on Win 7 64Bit
Cubase6 App: 6.0.2.291
HALion Sonic VST: v1.5.2[/quote]

Mongol
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Re: Cubase6, HSO & Expression Maps

Post by Mongol »

Jim,

I found one way to make things a bit more manageable - but not sure why it works a bit better.

In my previous setup, I put all my preferred Strings programs (Violin 1A Combi, Violin 2A, Viloa Combi etc) in one instance of HALion Sonic. All Woodwinds in another, and so on - so I had 5 instances of HALion Sonic running, each with 16 programs loaded (5x16=80 programs). My system can handle it fine as I have 12GB RAM. RAM reached about 40% full.

Intent for doing this was so I could have a number of differing (say) Violin 1 programs available, and switch between them if the score required a different variation of Violin 1 (beyond what is available via Expression Map/Articulations for any one program.

Anyhow, due to all the problems I was having, I have now set things up a bit different and a lot of the issues seem to have gone away. My new setup is:

Violin 1A Combi loaded in one instance of HALIon Sonic (no other programs loaded in that instance).
Violin 2A Combi loaded in another instance of HALIon Sonic (no other programs loaded in that instance).

And so on for each instrument. So I have now loaded 13 instances of HALion Sonic, each with one instrument (program).

RAM is now at 32%.

But, seem to work more smoothly - not getting the Trills WT anymore...

Not sure what may be different - but just seems to be more "stable".

Wish I could give you a more technical reason.

Anyhow, still keen to find a Cubase6 + HSO = Classic Music forum ... If you come across something, let me know.

Mongol.

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