New Amp Simulator!!! (Cubase 1 : Logic 0)

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New Amp Simulator!!! (Cubase 1 : Logic 0)

Post by Nathan Jones » Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:09 pm

Hi,

A nice story from the studio today. A friend of mine, and a much better guitarist as myself, came in to scoff at the new Cubase 6. He's a Logic user and let's everyone know it. :-)

He left with a slightly different story to tell, and one about the new amp simulator plug. We compared the two side by side, OK mine is on a PC and his logic amp simulator is on his laptop, but I can't imagine that makes that much of a difference. The difference is however like night and day. The logic amps all sound similar, or perhaps they are using two or three models and some EQ. The speakers are flat compared with Cubase's. I also notice an uncomfortable 'high frequency' in the logic.

The effects are down-right gawdy in the logic, but the Cubase one's hold there own and at least in the presets sound very musical. I need to experiment more. The main difference is in the gui, steinberg have got it right having all the controls in the plug. Logic you have to switch windows, between effects and the amps - That gets right on your nerves.

Musically Steinberg's amp settings are all somehow real - and very playable, that's where the better guitarist thing comes in. My friend was apparently having fun with it. :)

Steinberg, I have waited a long time to be able to enjoy this moment. Thank-you!

Cubase 1 : Logic 0

byebye
Nathan

ps. How about some funkier effects?
pps. Steinberg, the amp sim looks good but did it have to be So *knuf* ing Big.

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Re: New Amp Simulator!!!

Post by DaveDaveDave » Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:16 pm

Impressive! I haven't tried them yet, but I really do like Logic's amp sims - better than Guitar Rig 4's, and maybe not as much as Amplitube 2's. Now I can't wait to try them!

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Re: New Amp Simulator!!! (Cubase 1 : Logic 0)

Post by gravehill » Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:19 pm

I'm assuming this post is about the VST Amp Rack. The older effect called AmpSimulator still there as well.
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Re: New Amp Simulator!!! (Cubase 1 : Logic 0)

Post by Parrotspain » Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:23 pm

It is big , but you can make the GUI smaller using the arrow at the top centre of the case, Or you can switch to a generic editor by using the pull down menu top right side (once in that editor there is a similar button which brings back the amphead interface).

I am not a guitarist, but I have been finding the amp rack really sweet for further processing recorded guitar sounds.

P
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Re: New Amp Simulator!!! (Cubase 1 : Logic 0)

Post by curteye » Tue Feb 08, 2011 12:31 am

Aloha guys,

This all sounds promising ( I have yet to receive my copy of C6) however
I am wondering if the Amp Rack has a realistic jazz guitar tone(s)?

I'm talking about that lush warm Mundell Lowe/Kenny Burrell/Wes Montgomery
50'/60's sound. In this style of jazz, guitar players rarely bend strings.

I have not found this type of tone in any amp simulation to date.
(there is a close contender in one of the waves VSTi's)

Here hoping C6 has nailed it.
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Re: New Amp Simulator!!! (Cubase 1 : Logic 0)

Post by beatpete » Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:05 am

I agree, the amps sound very good. I just wish they had a good bass amp...
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Re: New Amp Simulator!!! (Cubase 1 : Logic 0)

Post by Ian s » Tue Feb 08, 2011 12:20 pm

Nice story.

I didn't open the VST Amp Rack for quite while, maybe because as a fussy guitarist for over 35 years I've accumulated good instruments and gear so didn't feel the need. The previous amp simulator didn't do anything you couldn't live without.

I was pleasantly surprised. This thing sounds great - and the layout is an absolute joy to work with. I can see this getting some use.

Curteye - I plugged my 175 in (for me that's a test of an amp in the physical domain), and it was a joy. I would never have bothered doing that with the old Amp Sim. Trying it with a couple of semi hollows too, a 335 and a 345, the amps responded pretty well as you would expect for each instrument. This is warmer, cleaner tones we're talking about rather than rock tones. They didn't obscure the timbre of the instument the way some sims do.
I don't think I'm going to be selling any amps just yet, but this certainly looks at first glance like a very useful addition to Cubase and I'll be tinkering with it more.
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Re: New Amp Simulator!!! (Cubase 1 : Logic 0)

Post by The dman » Tue Feb 08, 2011 12:38 pm

Cool I'll have to check that out. I'm not a big fan of amp emulators but I know their getting better
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Re: New Amp Simulator!!! (Cubase 1 : Logic 0)

Post by curteye » Tue Feb 08, 2011 12:39 pm

Aloha Ian and thanks soooo much for that report.

I can't wait for C6 to arrive.
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Re: New Amp Simulator!!! (Cubase 1 : Logic 0)

Post by bduffy » Tue Feb 08, 2011 1:27 pm

Hey guys,

I'm so excited about the new amp sims! I'm just wondering how the CPU is compared to, say, Guitar Rig 4, which I can't run as many instances as I'd like for a proper, big mix.

I realize the sound is going to be rather subjective, so I won't worry about that now. ;)

Thanks!
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Re: New Amp Simulator!!! (Cubase 1 : Logic 0)

Post by Ian s » Tue Feb 08, 2011 1:42 pm

Sorry haven't tried using several in a mix yet.

Didn't surf the presets much either, but it was so easy to dial in tones there was no real need.

As you say sound is subjective, but it's certainly a vast improvement on Amp Simulator and any of the whole troupe of modelling boxes that live in my store room :D
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Re: New Amp Simulator!!! (Cubase 1 : Logic 0)

Post by NorthWood MediaWorks » Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:08 pm

I spent a half an hour after installing last evening messing with the Amp rack... It does sound good. GR4 may have some more ecclectic patches, but for musicality, this new one is great. I've not checked out logic, but my friends with Digital Performer 7 will be crying, as the amp sim there bites. :lol:
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Re: New Amp Simulator!!! (Cubase 1 : Logic 0)

Post by DaveDaveDave » Tue Feb 08, 2011 5:03 pm

Is it possible that something in your signal chain is doing SRC on the fly? That's an easy way to get aliasing artifacts- i.e., if your ADC is feeding 48k into the DAW running at 44.1K (or vice versa) because you don't have any filtering going between the sample rates.

BTW, how do you like that Focusrite rig?
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Re: New Amp Simulator!!! (Cubase 1 : Logic 0)

Post by HowlingUlf » Tue Feb 08, 2011 7:32 pm

In my painfully unhumble opinion:
NI GuitarRig < VST AmpRack < Amplitube

For comparing VST AmpRack to Amplitube, a dedicated specialized and if you so wish standalone AmpSim, what the hell did I expect? I expected that result but VST Amp Rack is closer than I'd thought ... also it's not really close!

For GuitarRig ... NI makes lots of cool stuff. GR is not among them. It's harsh, hollow, unresponsive and basically just a waste of time. It was a part of Komplete. Otherwise I would never touch it.

VST Amp Rack is a cool little CPU saver, and what comes out is fun to play with! 8-)
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Re: New Amp Simulator!!! (Cubase 1 : Logic 0)

Post by dinobose » Tue Feb 08, 2011 8:25 pm

wes used fenders and standels...

suggest you try with Fender Twin / Deluxe type amp simulations.. guitar rig has fender twin sim and vst amp rack has twin and deluxe blackface i think... not near my cubase right now.

you can't get the jazz sound you want right away... you gotta do the old school guitarist tweaking the amp to get the sound thing just like with any real amp

d

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Re: New Amp Simulator!!! (Cubase 1 : Logic 0)

Post by dinobose » Tue Feb 08, 2011 8:27 pm

HowlingUlf wrote:In my painfully unhumble opinion:
NI GuitarRig < VST AmpRack < Amplitube

For comparing VST AmpRack to Amplitube, a dedicated specialized and if you so wish standalone AmpSim, what the hell did I expect? I expected that result but VST Amp Rack is closer than I'd thought ... also it's not really close!

For GuitarRig ... NI makes lots of cool stuff. GR is not among them. It's harsh, hollow, unresponsive and basically just a waste of time. It was a part of Komplete. Otherwise I would never touch it.

VST Amp Rack is a cool little CPU saver, and what comes out is fun to play with! 8-)

----- weird I found Amplitube harsh, brittle and tinny as opposed to Guitar Rig...

Guitar Rig is amazing... you have to spend time tweaking things just as you would any real guitar rig... don't expect to get the sound you want with the basic presets. NI aren't mind readers and haven't made their presets to match what your favorite guitar sounds

GR amps / fx are made to emulate the amps and fx...not your preferences of guitar sound or mine or anyone else.

it's up to YOU to do the work to get it where you want it...trust me the sounds are there

D

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Re: New Amp Simulator!!! (Cubase 1 : Logic 0)

Post by HowlingUlf » Tue Feb 08, 2011 9:05 pm

dinobose wrote:
HowlingUlf wrote:In my painfully unhumble opinion:
NI GuitarRig < VST AmpRack < Amplitube

For comparing VST AmpRack to Amplitube, a dedicated specialized and if you so wish standalone AmpSim, what the hell did I expect? I expected that result but VST Amp Rack is closer than I'd thought ... also it's not really close!

For GuitarRig ... NI makes lots of cool stuff. GR is not among them. It's harsh, hollow, unresponsive and basically just a waste of time. It was a part of Komplete. Otherwise I would never touch it.

VST Amp Rack is a cool little CPU saver, and what comes out is fun to play with! 8-)

----- weird I found Amplitube harsh, brittle and tinny as opposed to Guitar Rig...

Guitar Rig is amazing... you have to spend time tweaking things just as you would any real guitar rig... don't expect to get the sound you want with the basic presets. NI aren't mind readers and haven't made their presets to match what your favorite guitar sounds

GR amps / fx are made to emulate the amps and fx...not your preferences of guitar sound or mine or anyone else.

it's up to YOU to do the work to get it where you want it...trust me the sounds are there

D
Awrite ... since it's free! :lol:
I'll take it for a more serious test drive.
But the default presets sucks? There is no TONE to begin with?
VST AmpRack seems to have more potential?

but it's a deal, and a second chance ... later! 8-)

Back on topic!

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Re: New Amp Simulator!!! (Cubase 1 : Logic 0)

Post by Nathan Jones » Tue Feb 08, 2011 11:32 pm

gravehill wrote:I'm assuming this post is about the VST Amp Rack. The older effect called AmpSimulator still there as well.
Ah yes sorry, I missed that it had its own name. :oops: Out of interest, this morning I compared the Amp Rack with the old amp simulator, and I guess you have to ignore the cabinets, because they are worlds apart, but I found the existing Amp Simulator still had a good range of sounds that I couldn't exactly match with the Amp Rack. The new one seems to offer a smoother touch response. But maybe it's just something new and shiny. :D And maybe I should do some more work and stop playing around pretending to be a much better guitarist than I actually am....

byebye
Nathan

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Re: New Amp Simulator!!! (Cubase 1 : Logic 0)

Post by Pixie » Tue Feb 08, 2011 11:38 pm

I gave the Amp Rack a test drive earlier this week and I was very impressed.
There's only one thing that puzzles me: why no spring reverb?
There is a reverb pedal in the effects, but spring isn't one of the algoritms.
Considering that all the old amps had a spring reverb (if they had reverb), I find it strange that it's missing in an otherwise wonderful plugin.
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Re: New Amp Simulator!!! (Cubase 1 : Logic 0)

Post by Nathan Jones » Wed Feb 09, 2011 12:10 am

Pixie wrote:I gave the Amp Rack a test drive earlier this week and I was very impressed.
There's only one thing that puzzles me: why no spring reverb?
There is a reverb pedal in the effects, but spring isn't one of the algoritms.
Considering that all the old amps had a spring reverb (if they had reverb), I find it strange that it's missing in an otherwise wonderful plugin.
That's such a good idea. I never thought about it. Steinberg where's the twang? :D

And it should make that noise when you move the window to fast!!! :-)

Just the thought of that sound takes me back to a track by The Tubes, I think on the 'Completion Backwards Principle' album - 'I don't want to wait anymore.' They don't have bands like that anymore.

byebye.
Nathan

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Re: New Amp Simulator!!! (Cubase 1 : Logic 0)

Post by dinobose » Wed Feb 09, 2011 12:32 am

HowlingUlf wrote:
dinobose wrote:
HowlingUlf wrote:In my painfully unhumble opinion:
NI GuitarRig < VST AmpRack < Amplitube

For comparing VST AmpRack to Amplitube, a dedicated specialized and if you so wish standalone AmpSim, what the hell did I expect? I expected that result but VST Amp Rack is closer than I'd thought ... also it's not really close!

For GuitarRig ... NI makes lots of cool stuff. GR is not among them. It's harsh, hollow, unresponsive and basically just a waste of time. It was a part of Komplete. Otherwise I would never touch it.

VST Amp Rack is a cool little CPU saver, and what comes out is fun to play with! 8-)

----- weird I found Amplitube harsh, brittle and tinny as opposed to Guitar Rig...

Guitar Rig is amazing... you have to spend time tweaking things just as you would any real guitar rig... don't expect to get the sound you want with the basic presets. NI aren't mind readers and haven't made their presets to match what your favorite guitar sounds

GR amps / fx are made to emulate the amps and fx...not your preferences of guitar sound or mine or anyone else.

it's up to YOU to do the work to get it where you want it...trust me the sounds are there

D
Awrite ... since it's free! :lol:
I'll take it for a more serious test drive.
But the default presets sucks? There is no TONE to begin with?
VST AmpRack seems to have more potential?

but it's a deal, and a second chance ... later! 8-)

Back on topic!

Cubase 1 : Logic 0
i didn't say the default presets suck... i'm saying the defaults won't always have the sound you prefer for that particular amp

yes... try it some more

and i'm shocked you think guitar rig sucks... i've been playing guitar for 20+ years and ALWAYS so anti-software amp emulations but GR changed my mind

D

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Re: New Amp Simulator!!! (Cubase 1 : Logic 0)

Post by orchetect » Wed Feb 09, 2011 2:10 am

Sounds encouraging. I had a few minutes to play with it and it does look good. I've been looking for something to replace Guitar Rig - even though I love it. GR has been a bit unstable for me and I think a Cubase native plugin will be more stable and probably more CPU efficient.
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Re: New Amp Simulator!!! (Cubase 1 : Logic 0)

Post by stonefree » Wed Feb 09, 2011 5:10 am

Haven't tried the new amp sim in C6 yet but I still really like Line6 Pod XT hardware and Pod Farm plugin. Definitely a lot better than GR4.
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Re: New Amp Simulator!!! (Cubase 1 : Logic 0)

Post by gravehill » Wed Feb 09, 2011 6:02 pm

Nathan Jones wrote:Out of interest, this morning I compared the Amp Rack with the old amp simulator, and I guess you have to ignore the cabinets, because they are worlds apart, but I found the existing Amp Simulator still had a good range of sounds that I couldn't exactly match with the Amp Rack.
I quite like the old Amp Simulator. I find I have often been able to get a decent sound out of it faster than from Guitar Rig. Note that now you can also combine the two. Just use Amp Rack for the amplifier part and only use cabinet and post effects in VST Amp Rack.
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Re: New Amp Simulator!!! (Cubase 1 : Logic 0)

Post by dinobose » Wed Feb 09, 2011 6:23 pm

my only issue is that it's not standalone like guitar rig. ....

the slight latency is there while playing it through track monitoring.

playing through GRig with the same buffer settings, I don't have this slight latency.

I've got an RME Fireface 800 on the 128 buffer setting.


Steinberg... please release a standalone version with your next patch update on C6

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