Loving the new instrument rack outputs!

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Loving the new instrument rack outputs!

Post by johnstaf » Wed Dec 04, 2013 7:04 pm

The new instruent rack is such a great time/click saver for me. The new output selection is just what I wanted :D
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Re: Loving the new instrument rack outputs!

Post by forthwith » Wed Dec 04, 2013 7:43 pm

Screenshots?

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Re: Loving the new instrument rack outputs!

Post by MickGael » Wed Dec 04, 2013 7:49 pm

Johnstaf, have you figured out how to remove instruments from the panel? I've looked at the supporting docs - and the GUI itself - and for the life of me I can't figure out how to remove them.

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Re: Loving the new instrument rack outputs!

Post by -steve- » Wed Dec 04, 2013 7:54 pm

Rack instruments, by clicking on the name and selecting No VST Instrument. Instrument Track entries are added and removed in project window or by the same means as for a rack instrument,
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Re: Loving the new instrument rack outputs!

Post by Patepro » Wed Dec 04, 2013 10:23 pm

Don't understand why you're that happy. What is new ? Even when you have multiple outputs (you had
them in the vst-instrument too -f11) - you have to map again midi tracks to these outputs. Wheres the benefit ?
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Re: Loving the new instrument rack outputs!

Post by serenity » Wed Dec 04, 2013 10:33 pm

By now, I don't get diference beside Instrument track and Instrument rack :8
On Cubase 7 I preffered Instrument track.

Is there posibility to add Instrument track (or Instrument rack) with Groove Agent SE and all used by it outputs are automaticly routed to separate outs ? Or again must rout them manually ?
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Re: Loving the new instrument rack outputs!

Post by thinkingcap » Wed Dec 04, 2013 10:47 pm

Patepro wrote:Don't understand why you're that happy. What is new ? Even when you have multiple outputs (you had
them in the vst-instrument too -f11) - you have to map again midi tracks to these outputs. Wheres the benefit ?
Activate all but one outputs of a multi output VSTi from the rack in C7, and do the same in C 7.5. I´m sure you´ll notice the difference...
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Re: Loving the new instrument rack outputs!

Post by Patepro » Wed Dec 04, 2013 10:53 pm

In C7 you got all the outputs in the vst folder and had to map manually midi channels to vst channels.
in C7.5 you got all outputs as instrument outputs and you have map manually midi chsnnels to instrument outputs.
Where do you ses the advantage of C7.5 approach ?
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Re: Loving the new instrument rack outputs!

Post by thinkingcap » Wed Dec 04, 2013 11:02 pm

Patepro wrote:In C7 you got all the outputs in the vst folder and had to map manually midi channels to vst channels.
in C7.5 you got all outputs as instrument outputs and you have map manually midi chsnnels to instrument outputs.
Where do you ses the advantage of C7.5 approach ?
I´m talking about the actual audio outputs of the VSTi itself on the rack.
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Re: Loving the new instrument rack outputs!

Post by Patepro » Wed Dec 04, 2013 11:07 pm

yes of course. When you enhance one instance of omnisphere in c7 from one stereo output to lets say four outputs there are automatically four audio channels generated. vst audio channels. Thats just the same as before. the problems is still the same - you have to map manually midi channels to these outputs. before vst channels now instrument channels (both audio). again - wheres the benefit ?

Dont misunderstand me - loving cubase but i just dont understand it.
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Re: Loving the new instrument rack outputs!

Post by thinkingcap » Wed Dec 04, 2013 11:12 pm

Patepro wrote:yes of course. When you enhance one instance of omnisphere in c7 from one stereo output to lets say four outputs there are automatically four audio channels generated. vst audio channels. Thats just the same as before. the problems is still the same - you have to map manually midi channels to these outputs. before vst channels now instrument channels (both audio). again - wheres the benefit ?

Dont misunderstand me - loving cubase but i just dont understand it.
You´re talking about something different.
In C 7.5 you go to the ouput selector (on the rack), and select several ouputs in one go, after that close the pop up window. In C7 you select one output - pop up window closes, then go back to the ouput selector in the rack, select the next ouput - popup window closes, you go back to the rack....
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Re: Loving the new instrument rack outputs!

Post by Steve Helstrip » Thu Dec 05, 2013 12:00 am

Have to say, I'm also struggling to understand the benefits of the multi-out track instruments over the existing method. What benefit does it bring?
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Re: Loving the new instrument rack outputs!

Post by JMCecil » Thu Dec 05, 2013 12:15 am

Steve Helstrip wrote:Have to say, I'm also struggling to understand the benefits of the multi-out track instruments over the existing method. What benefit does it bring?
none, it's really disappointing.
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Re: Loving the new instrument rack outputs!

Post by Backdraft69 » Thu Dec 05, 2013 12:35 am

My major problem with the Intrument track outputs is, that I can't sort them in the mixer.
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Re: Loving the new instrument rack outputs!

Post by FelixD » Thu Dec 05, 2013 1:50 am

I can't see real benefits in the new Instrument Track 2.0 versus the old style VST Instruments Rack.
Well ok, what's new and good about it is that it now supports multiple audio Outputs before it only supported Stereo out.
But often when you need multiple audio outputs you also want to have multiple midi tracks.
And now the concept suffers. Because first you create your Instrument track - fine - then create a second audio output - start creating midi notes on your instrument track. these midi notes correspond to midi channel 1 of that instrument track and the audio is by default routed to audio output 1. now if you want to do something totally different on midi channel 2 and audio output 2 like multitrimbal Instrument do.
how do you do that?
well ok, audio output 2 already exists because we created it with the Instrument track and our audio tracks and all automation data are nice and clean right under our instrument track. That's the big plus for Instrument tracks versus midi tracks and old VST instruments Rack. But to feed midi data on channel 2 to our Instrument track we now have to create a normal midi track and set it up manually to talk to the Instrument track and our multitrimbal Instrument on it.

It's not a big deal - create a new midi track set midi channel to 2 and route the output of the midi track to the Input of the instrument track in inspector. but our midi track is totally seperated from the instrument track in the timeline. All automation data which correspond logical to that midi track is shown in the other instrument track.

So in my opinion what is really missing is that this new instruments track does not have the possibility of multiple midi tracks in itself.
The big advantage of instrument tracks is that everything (audio and automation data) is nice and clean in that one track. But if you need seperated midi tracks outside the instrument track to get real multitimbral functionality the whole concept is wrong for me and not well thought through. I think I stay with the old style of midi tracks and the VST Instrument Rack.

Or did I miss something?

Here is a nice Video (but in german language) from Muso Talk with Helge Vogt from Steinberg:

http://www.musotalk.de/video/cubase-pra ... eberblick/

at 22:30 minutes they talk about the new instrumnet track

All my information so far is only from watching videos about Cubase 7.5 I have not tested this by myself because I did not purchased the upgrade yet.
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Re: Loving the new instrument rack outputs!

Post by johnstaf » Thu Dec 05, 2013 2:18 am

One of my pet irritations with the old instrument rack was that audio outputs had to be activated one by one. Now it's possible, in one go, to select several which then appear in the mixer.

If you use VSTis that allow you to recall complex presets (like Vienna Ensemble) with Midi and audio routings, this can save a lot of bother.

The main advantage of the new instrument tracks for me is flexibility. Now, an instrument track is just like a midi track that comes with a slot in the instrument rack. Instruments are no longer segregated into rack/non-rack instruments.
Last edited by johnstaf on Thu Dec 05, 2013 2:49 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Loving the new instrument rack outputs!

Post by johnstaf » Thu Dec 05, 2013 2:19 am

MickGael wrote:Johnstaf, have you figured out how to remove instruments from the panel? I've looked at the supporting docs - and the GUI itself - and for the life of me I can't figure out how to remove them.
If you click on an instrument name the dialogue box appears, and then you can choose "no instrument".
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Re: Loving the new instrument rack outputs!

Post by Patepro » Thu Dec 05, 2013 8:08 am

Hi johnstaf,
in the c7 vst rack you can open multiple outs at once for an vst-instrument. You dont have to do it one by one. Its just the described missing integrated midi tracks.
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Re: Loving the new instrument rack outputs!

Post by TheNavigator » Thu Dec 05, 2013 8:50 am

I love it, and it also has "Shift + Click", which makes this a breeze to work with.

Oh, this is soooo nice...

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Re: Loving the new instrument rack outputs!

Post by abyss » Thu Dec 05, 2013 9:10 am

i don't like the fact that a track preset for a track instruments will not remember the Routing ...its a pain to re rout a bunch of Outputs to Group buss's and sends to fx buss's for a drum kit like superior, BFD, Kontakt ... that would have made the feature really good ...

i thought we were going to be able to have Racks like other Daws .. so an instrument track could have say "EZ drummer & Groove agent & Kontak" maybe as 1 instrument and get rid of the instrument rack altogether....

one can dream

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Re: Loving the new instrument rack outputs!

Post by Soul-Burn » Thu Dec 05, 2013 9:30 am

It helps with things like programmed drums.
In 7, you have to make a midi track + f11 instrument which opens another track for the instrument and its outputs.
In 7.5, you have just one instrument track, with the MIDI on it and the outputs directly beneath it.

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Re: Loving the new instrument rack outputs!

Post by JMCecil » Thu Dec 05, 2013 2:41 pm

Soul-Burn wrote:It helps with things like programmed drums.
In 7, you have to make a midi track + f11 instrument which opens another track for the instrument and its outputs.
In 7.5, you have just one instrument track, with the MIDI on it and the outputs directly beneath it.
Unless of course you have 8 or 9 group tracks that those outputs are routed to ... then not so convenient.
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Re: Loving the new instrument rack outputs!

Post by johnstaf » Thu Dec 05, 2013 3:09 pm

Patepro wrote:Hi johnstaf,
in the c7 vst rack you can open multiple outs at once for an vst-instrument. You dont have to do it one by one. Its just the described missing integrated midi tracks.
You can do all of them at once in C7, but if you want a different arrangement don't you have to go one by one?
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Re: Loving the new instrument rack outputs!

Post by Soul-Burn » Thu Dec 05, 2013 5:06 pm

@JMCecil Serious question, what do you need 8 or 9 group tracks, coming from your 8 or 9 outputs from the plugin? Having that many groups is not convenient whether it's the old rack or the new rack. But it's still a tad more convenient now, having 2 tracks less. When you have 20 tracks from the same instrument, sure it's not much, but when you have just 6 or 7, it's nice having 2 less.

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Re: Loving the new instrument rack outputs!

Post by JMCecil » Thu Dec 05, 2013 5:12 pm

Soul-Burn wrote:@JMCecil Serious question, what do you need 8 or 9 group tracks, coming from your 8 or 9 outputs from the plugin? Having that many groups is not convenient whether it's the old rack or the new rack. But it's still a tad more convenient now, having 2 tracks less. When you have 20 tracks from the same instrument, sure it's not much, but when you have just 6 or 7, it's nice having 2 less.
When mixing percussion I send to mix groups, per instrument type, I have cue sends, parallel compression busses etc... Yes, it is slightly more convenient. But, it is still lagging behind proper presets like in Sonar, Logic, Reaper, ProTools ...
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