vst instrument/rack opionion

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More Cowbell
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vst instrument/rack opionion

Post by More Cowbell » Tue Dec 17, 2013 6:04 pm

First of I would like to say that Steinberg 7.5 is wonderful to use!
I have one opinion about vst instruments vs instrument racks. I showed cubase version for a friend. With 7.5 update I thought that I could choose a vst instrument (right click...) and later, if I so wanted activate all the outputs and it automatically change to vst rack. That is not the case. You can activate all outputs on a vst instrument but they will not show up in the project. That it is very strange for a newbie using Cubase. No problem if you know that you are going to use lots of outputs and choose rack in the first place.
I would love Cubase to automatically "convert" to rack when i click for more outputs. In the meanwhile they should be greyed out. Otherwise it could be confusing.

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Re: vst instrument/rack opionion

Post by kobana » Tue Dec 17, 2013 6:34 pm

You can activate all outputs on a vst instrument but they will not show up in the project.

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More Cowbell
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Re: vst instrument/rack opionion

Post by More Cowbell » Tue Dec 17, 2013 6:39 pm

Read my post again.

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Re: vst instrument/rack opionion

Post by -steve- » Tue Dec 17, 2013 6:53 pm

More Cowbell wrote:You can activate all outputs on a vst instrument but they will not show up in the project. That it is very strange for a newbie using Cubase. No problem if you know that you are going to use lots of outputs and choose rack in the first place.
The reply refers to that portion of the OP. I was going to say the same thing but kobana beat me to it.

Cowbell, are you saying you would like the Track VST to convert to a Rack VST in order to make it more obvious that those channels have been created to a new user?

Or something else?
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More Cowbell
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Re: vst instrument/rack opionion

Post by More Cowbell » Tue Dec 17, 2013 7:56 pm

Exactly! I often start up with a vst instrument in the creative stage. If I get serious and want different outputs I have to save a preset dor example in addictive drums. > unload vst instrument > load vst rack addictive drums. I kniw this cause u used cubase for eight years. But for a newbie this I confusing. A new cubase user will click the outputs (if they chose instrument) but nothing shows up in project window.
I DO love the new easy way to choose outputs. Earlier versions was more time consuming.
I hope this make sense.

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Re: vst instrument/rack opionion

Post by More Cowbell » Tue Dec 17, 2013 7:59 pm

A easy way is to get rid of vst instrument (only stereo) and call vst rack for vst instrument.

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Re: vst instrument/rack opionion

Post by mpayne0 » Tue Dec 17, 2013 8:24 pm

All of this stuff is challenging or darn straight unintuitive for a new user that did not spend a month or more in the manual.

Heck I consider that period 'initiation'. Get yer stripes! Make the mistakes you will NEVER make again, and that becomes your workflow. Until you read a shortcut thread, add, get a tips&tricks thread, append! :D

Would be a considerate feature.

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Re: vst instrument/rack opionion

Post by -steve- » Tue Dec 17, 2013 8:59 pm

I think new users will not even mess with the the Rack, and I think that SB is encouraging new users to use the Track VSTs since there's a button at the top of the Rack to add a Track instrument, but a right click is required to load a Rack instrument. (or a click on the words in the divider between the Rack and Track sections)

When the Track is loaded, it appears in the project window, IMO that is more or equally obvious to a new user compared with what happens when you add a Rack instrument. (however for old users teaching new users that advantage is gone! :lol: )

Overall, I find the new Track Instruments more straightforward to begin with, then, once you get going with it, equal in complexity to the Rack. But this is coming from someone who has been using Track instruments for a while now.

My favorite thing is having the master track in the track list instead of hidden away in the rack. And, since the Quick Controls are available in the project page, and I can hit a key command to bring up the instruments 'editors, I can leave the (large-ish) rack closed.

Also Track instruments can be removed on the project page, Rack instruments require a visit to the Rack.

Finally, I think it would be better if the words didn't rhyme. ;)
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Re: vst instrument/rack opionion

Post by More Cowbell » Tue Dec 17, 2013 11:02 pm

But why not have only one system. Call it Vst Instruments. Stereo and multi out. You can right click and add instrument or use F11 AND remove it from the project. One system. Could be a coding issue but it should not be
impossible.

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Re: vst instrument/rack opionion

Post by -steve- » Tue Dec 17, 2013 11:15 pm

I imagine they could easily remove it. But it would be really hard on people who have used Cubase for 20 years.

But as far as how I seem to be using it, if the Rack were removed I would not notice for a while.
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Re: vst instrument/rack opionion

Post by More Cowbell » Wed Dec 18, 2013 12:15 am

No the rack should still be there. Only difference is ti remove the option of vst instrument and rack instrument. By that I mean that it function just like a vst instrument; add it in the rack or project- your choice. Use only stereo. When your ready for multiout > click outputs in the rack. Simple!

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Re: vst instrument/rack opionion

Post by More Cowbell » Wed Dec 18, 2013 12:17 am

Could get troublesome backward compatible wise though.

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Re: vst instrument/rack opionion

Post by -steve- » Wed Dec 18, 2013 12:32 am

More Cowbell wrote:No the rack should still be there. Only difference is ti remove the option of vst instrument and rack instrument. By that I mean that it function just like a vst instrument; add it in the rack or project- your choice. Use only stereo. When your ready for multiout > click outputs in the rack. Simple!
That's my view as well, this would be a good way to keep everyone happy.

The instrument track on the project page can be hidden then, by someone who wants to keep the old method.
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Re: vst instrument/rack opionion

Post by More Cowbell » Wed Dec 18, 2013 12:39 am

Yes your are right. Only want to se outputs just like the old rack system? Just hide the vst instrument using track visibility. You still have the view in thé rack with qc outputs etc = rack People happy. Vst instrument stereo still there for easy creativity

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Re: vst instrument/rack opionion

Post by The Jeep » Thu Dec 19, 2013 12:38 am

Hi everyone - maybe I'm just being thick, but HOW do I remove a rack instrument in 7.5 ?? Even the manual mentions NOTHING about removing, only add, add, add…. it's driving me nuts!! Please, someone put me out of my misery! Thanks. :x

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Re: vst instrument/rack opionion

Post by HughH » Thu Dec 19, 2013 2:03 am

@The Jeep - Just click on the Instrument name in the rack and select "No Instrument".
Isn't that how it's always worked? Yet I've seen this question more than once.
Another thing some don't realize is that you can Re-Name the Instrument - like "Big Piano" or whatever. Double click on the name. Type something new. The original instrument name becomes small underneath. Interesting for Track Inst: if you name it in the rack - the track name stays the same. Re-name the track, and it changes in the rack.

As to Track vs Rack - It's hard for me to say how confused a new user would be. It seems strait to me, but I'm a long time user. A lot of software functions are not obvious at first (see above) but after a minute become second nature.

I almost always used Racks in the past - and they still seem more . . uhm . . . logical? At least for multis.

That is - when you create an Instrument Track your first MIDI Track is also the output of the instrument.
BUT . . . when you enable subsequent outputs for additional Instruments (adding MIDI Tracks) then the outputs are just outputs, and the MIDI Tracks are separate.
Inconsistent! At least a little off-putting.

With Racks, however, MIDI Tracks are MIDI Tracks feeding whatever I want and Instrument Outputs are Audio Outputs. Logic! Consistency! Love it.

I have, however, started using Instrument Tracks for any VSTi where its just one MIDI stream - not multitimberal.
Like Drums Tracks. Or even layered keys. Even with multiple outputs. I can use Lanes for editing, if I want.
Makes everything convenient.

So convenient, in fact, that Multitimberal VSTis are becoming rarer for me.
One instance of whatever for each part. That is nice. And it has been said here that it is no more CPU intensive than a loaded up Multi. Less, in fact, in some peoples experience.
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Re: vst instrument/rack opionion

Post by The Jeep » Thu Dec 19, 2013 11:11 pm

Thanks, I've got it working now, though it was strangely elusive to me, and I've been using Cubase since 1988! I wonder how I missed it… just goes to show...

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