Windows 8.1 Problems - YAMAHA STEINBERG DRIVER PROBLEM

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ukdino
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Windows 8.1 Problems - YAMAHA STEINBERG DRIVER PROBLEM

Post by ukdino » Thu May 15, 2014 6:09 pm

System Info:

OS: Windows 8.1 (Latest Version)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z87X-UD3H
CPU: Intel i7 4770k 3.4GHz
RAM: 16GB Corsair Vengence
GPU: MSI GTX770
Hardrives: 2x 500GB SSD 1 x 1T Eco Storage


Soundcard: Steinberg MR1816 (Latest Drivers and Firmware)
Software: Cubase 7.5 (Latest Version)

Problem


Hi, yesterday I just upgrade my OS to windows 8.1 and I've come across a problem which is leaving me fairly mythed and frustrated!

During playback of a session, there's constant pop's, clicks and drop outs in the audio. Normally this would be related with incorrect buffer settings (mine are set to 512 for playback)or hard-drives being fairly slow on Read / Write causing drop outs when using VST librarys, however the latter is not relevant as this problem still occurs when using just 2 channels of pre-recorded audio!

What's interesting to note is that the Disk Performance meter spikes performing any activity (Even if you click and drag the timeline bar) but on playback it's not even using 1% yet audible problems are present. This led me to run a session with the Performance Tab open in "Windows Task Manager". Apparently everything is stable. Disk usage is around 4% and CPU at 6% even during playback when the problems are happening.

Know, I know this isn't to do with my system, previously I was running windows 7 everything was working OK. No problems what so ever, only since I've upgraded the OS there has been issues. Which leads me to believe:

1. Windows 8.1 has compatibility issues still and requires patches that are yet to be released.. (likely)
2. Windows 8.1 and the MR816 are having driver or compatibility issues when Cubase 7.5 is being used. (because i don't get any audible problems using other applications, listening to music or playing games.)
3. Or Cubase 7.5 isn't 100% Compatible with 8.1 and requires more optimising. (Fairly Unlikely)
4. Windows 8.1 is doing something it shouldn't be and I can't figure it out.

What I've tired

* Reinstalling Cubase 7.5
* Reinstalling Audio Drivers
* Reinstalling MR816
* Disabling certain Services
* Disabling Indexing
* Uninstalling my Virus Protection (Bit Defender)


EDIT:

I've discovered the Issue!!!



Ok here's a list of everything I've tried which didn't solve anything:

* Re-install Windows 8.1
* Re-install all 64bit Drivers
* Re-install MR816 64bit Drivers
* Update Bios to latest Version


* Altered the NDU reg file from 2 to 4 (made no difference so I restored to 2)
* Disabled Windows Search
* Disabled Background Intelligent Transfer
* Disabled Superfetch
* Disabled Win 8.1 Live Tiles

* Ran Disk Check /f /r and no problems were found.
* Ran GSmart Control and checked the C: drive which has no bad sectors.
(Hard drives are healthy)

Here's what I discovered... Unplugging the MR816 and connected a set of speakers via Optical in on my motherboard. This surprisingly fixed my 100% Spike issues and guess what? Cubase works completely fine! There's definitely a Driver Comparability issue still which needs looking at i suspect its the Yamaha Driver as I used the ASIO Low Latency Driver to handle things when testing..

But for now, it's really annoying as I can't use my monitor speakers and now have no XLR inputs to use. Unless I can re-rout it in ASIO and hope the problems dont persist.

UPDATE: Just to confirm this I've tried running the MR816 as normal and audio problems started happening. I then switched from the Yamaha Steinberg FW Driver to the ASIO Low Latency Driver ( With my other speakers that are pluged directly into the optical input of my motherboard) and the problem still continued. As soon as I switched OFF the MR816 the audio went mental and froze my system for a second. Then it corrected it's self and the audio issue went.
Last edited by ukdino on Sat May 17, 2014 6:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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TwanV
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Re: Windows 8.1 Problems

Post by TwanV » Thu May 15, 2014 7:24 pm

No problems over here.

Did you:
- install 64 bit drivers?
- disable Steinberg Audio Power Scheme?
- my latency is 1024, using Melodyne.
- MR816x driver - Utility - ysfwutility.exe - IEEE1394 buffer size = Large?

Best regards,
Twan
Windows 10 pro 64bit, Cubase Pro 8.5.15 64bit, Melodyne Studio 4.04.001 64bit.
Intel DX58S02, I7 X990 4,13GHz, 24GB DDR3 1772MHz, Sapphire HD6970.
SSD (OS, Cubase), Raid 4hdx1tb (Plugins), 1hd 1tb Cubase projects,
1hd 1tb Backup,

MR816X

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Re: Windows 8.1 Problems

Post by ukdino » Thu May 15, 2014 8:44 pm

Hi TwanV

Yeah all the drivers are 64bit all absolutely up to date and MR Utility is the latest version all set correctly. As I say, it's only when using Cubase that I'm getting these issues. Going to do some more tests and see if I can narrow down the problem.
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Re: Windows 8.1 Problems

Post by ukdino » Fri May 16, 2014 2:54 pm

So, I think I might of solved the problem or narrowed down the cause. But this involved re-installing windows 8.1...

I think the problem is with one of two things. The first being the updates for Windows cause the problem OR the auto update feature on Bit Defender didn't install the windows updates correctly which cause some kind of conflict.
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Re: Windows 8.1 Problems

Post by ukdino » Fri May 16, 2014 3:11 pm

Ok, maybe not... It was working fine and now the problems back! :(
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Re: Windows 8.1 Problems

Post by ukdino » Sat May 17, 2014 5:42 pm

*Bump*

I've discovered the Issue!!!

*Bump*

Ok here's a list of everything I've tried which didn't solve anything:

* Re-install Windows 8.1
* Re-install all 64bit Drivers
* Re-install MR816 64bit Drivers
* Update Bios to latest Version


* Altered the NDU reg file from 2 to 4 (made no difference so I restored to 2)
* Disabled Windows Search
* Disabled Background Intelligent Transfer
* Disabled Superfetch
* Disabled Win 8.1 Live Tiles

* Ran Disk Check /f /r and no problems were found.
* Ran GSmart Control and checked the C: drive which has no bad sectors.
(Hard drives are healthy)

Here's what I discovered... Unplugging the MR816 and connected a set of speakers via Optical in on my motherboard. This surprisingly fixed my 100% Spike issues and guess what? Cubase works completely fine! There's definitely a Driver Comparability issue still which needs looking at i suspect its the Yamaha Driver as I used the ASIO Low Latency Driver to handle things when testing..

But for now, it's really annoying as I can't use my monitor speakers and now have no XLR inputs to use. Unless I can re-rout it in ASIO and hope the problems dont persist.

UPDATE: Just to confirm this I've tried running the MR816 as normal and audio problems started happening. I then switched from the Yamaha Steinberg FW Driver to the ASIO Low Latency Driver ( With my other speakers that are pluged directly into the optical input of my motherboard) and the problem still continued. As soon as I switched OFF the MR816 the audio went mental and froze my system for a second. Then it corrected it's self and the audio issue went.
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Re: Windows 8.1 Problems - YAMAHA STEINBERG DRIVER PROBLEM

Post by TwanV » Sun May 18, 2014 8:54 am

Did you disable the audio in the bios (audio on motherboard) before
installing Cubase and mr816x?

I have no problems at all, running same os!!
Windows 10 pro 64bit, Cubase Pro 8.5.15 64bit, Melodyne Studio 4.04.001 64bit.
Intel DX58S02, I7 X990 4,13GHz, 24GB DDR3 1772MHz, Sapphire HD6970.
SSD (OS, Cubase), Raid 4hdx1tb (Plugins), 1hd 1tb Cubase projects,
1hd 1tb Backup,

MR816X

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Re: Windows 8.1 Problems - YAMAHA STEINBERG DRIVER PROBLEM

Post by ukdino » Sun May 18, 2014 5:02 pm

I've 100% Found the problem now.

Microsoft have actually scrapped some of the FireWire Legacy Drivers in Windows 8.1. These drivers are the ones that the MR816X needs when pluged into any FireWire Controller Card on the PCI slot. In order for this to work Microsoft will have to create a Patch or I'll have to manually copy and install drivers from a Windows 7 64bit machine onto Windows 8.1 and hope it works.
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Re: Windows 8.1 Problems - YAMAHA STEINBERG DRIVER PROBLEM

Post by erezh » Fri Jun 06, 2014 10:41 pm

Wish I read your post two days ago...

I'm in the same jam now. Had a working environment, with MR816x connected through fire-wire and everything sounding great.
Than I upgraded from Windows 7 to Windows 8.1, and have been getting drop-offs, clicks and all kinds of other issues in my sound, either when using any DAW or just playing something from youtube.

I'm desperate enough to re-install my computer with Windows 7 now, so I'm ready to manually install the Windows 7 drivers and see if it works.

Which drivers did you find missing? I'd like to give it a try.

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Re: Windows 8.1 Problems - YAMAHA STEINBERG DRIVER PROBLEM

Post by Ed Doll » Fri Jun 20, 2014 10:02 am

We have a knowledge base article on that here:

https://www.steinberg.net/nc/en/support ... ssues.html

The different legacy driver is also part of that article.
Ed Doll, Support Manager
Steinberg Media Technologies GmbH
Hamburg, Germany

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Re: Windows 8.1 Problems - YAMAHA STEINBERG DRIVER PROBLEM

Post by erezh » Sat Jun 21, 2014 1:52 am

Thank you, but in short- been there, done that, unfortunately for no use :-(

Same hardware and software, on Windows 7 64 bit everything worked amazingly well.
Once I upgraded to Windows 8.1 (due to an article on this site saying that the MR816x was tested and approved for Windows 8.1)- I get pops and cutoffs.

Tried again on an older laptop computer (not fit to be used for a studio) installed with Windows 7 64 bit- got clean sound.

So, it is not the hardware, it is clearly how MR816X works with Windows 8.1 via the Firewire.
And we require a good solution as none of us would have upgraded their studio computers if Steinberg would not have promised that the hardware would work with Windows 8.1!
Now we have a pile of useless hardware, unless we waste more time and effort re installing the studio computer with the older Windows 7 64 bit again.

STEINBERG IS CALLED TO DO WHAT IS RIGHT HERE!

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Re: Windows 8.1 Problems - YAMAHA STEINBERG DRIVER PROBLEM

Post by Norbury Brook » Sat Jun 21, 2014 11:37 am

I had a similar issue with an RME fireface when going from 7 to 8.1 on a clients machine.

After looking through various RME forums I realised that windows 8.1 has definitely got poor fire wire support, and even RME users were struggling. In the end he bought a UR44 and is very happy.

I switched to using a UR as my master unit when I went to windows 8 and use my MR's as slaves into that now.

Not what you want to hear I know but that was my solution. FireWire is a dead protocol now hence Steinberg and most other manufacturers concentrating on USB.

My advice is: If you're tied to your MR hardware then keep using windows 7, it's going to be supported for a long time. If you want to go to widows 8 then get either PCIe audio or USB device.


MC
Asus X79 pro | 3930x @4.6 hex core | 32 gigs DDR3 | Crucial M4 SSD-win8 x64 | Samsung 840 SSDs | Spinpoint F3's | Poco | VSS3 DVR2 Non Lin | UAD 2| 2x MR 816 | UR824 | full CMC selection |2x Euphonix MC Mix | MC transport |Cubase 7|Nuendo 6 |Windows 8.1 x64

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Re: Windows 8.1 Problems - YAMAHA STEINBERG DRIVER PROBLEM

Post by erezh » Sun Jun 22, 2014 12:01 am

I do not mind using Windows 7, but as I already said I wouldn't have updated my OS to Windows 8.1 if Steinberg wouldn't have clearly stated that it is tested and supported with the Firewire based MR816X!

Do you know how much hassle it is to re-install a complete studio computer from scratch?

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Re: Windows 8.1 Problems - YAMAHA STEINBERG DRIVER PROBLEM

Post by erezh » Sun Jun 22, 2014 12:02 am

I do not mind using Windows 7, but as I already said I wouldn't have updated my OS to Windows 8.1 if Steinberg wouldn't have clearly stated that it is tested and supported with the Firewire based MR816X!

Do you know how much hassle it is to re-install a complete studio computer from scratch?

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Re: Windows 8.1 Problems - YAMAHA STEINBERG DRIVER PROBLEM

Post by Ed Doll » Tue Jun 24, 2014 12:40 pm

I guess almost everyone here knows the pain of a reinstallation from scratch...

I have to apologize for the suggestion to try with the legacy bus driver on Windows 8. That is an error in the knowledge base article (and my brain) which I have corrected.
There is no official option to go back to that driver unless you copy the needed files from a Windows 7 system manually. Unfortunately, this driver is not signed and this can create other issues. First and foremost one has to tell Windows to start with non signed drivers every time.

Erezh, this can indeed be the reason for your issues and there is a discussion and workaround now mentioned in the knowledge base article.
http://social.technet.microsoft.com/For ... 394-driver

It clearly shows that this is not an issue only we have to deal with but all other Firewire device manufacturers as well. And it does not happen on all systems.
In fact, the support requests on this topic have decreased significantly since Windows 8 has been released.
It all comes down to the point that there is an incompatibility in your system setup and unfortunately, the only official workaround would be to go back to Windows 7 and use the legacy driver. The inofficial one as linked to above might also work for you though.
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Re: Windows 8.1 Problems - YAMAHA STEINBERG DRIVER PROBLEM

Post by erezh » Tue Jun 24, 2014 2:04 pm

Thank you Ed for this reply.

In the past few days I actually went through the process of ripping working drivers from my Windows 7 64 bit laptop, starting the studio computer in "Allow unsigned drivers" mode and configuring the legacy drivers.

I must say that the number of issues has decreased dramatically, but to my amazement- not completely. There must be something really wrong with Windows 8.1 in that manner (and I'm a big fan of the newer operating system)...
Which leaves me with the only viable option of re-installing the computer with Windows 7 64 bit (and the whole package along with it).

I would like to ask- could Steinberg/Yamaha use their market size and power to access whoever is in-charge in Microsoft and get them to sign good working firewire drivers for the Windows 8.1?

Reading what you wrote I do understand that so many companies, and thus consumers, share the same issues and could work together with Microsoft on this one.

We, as users, have very little power over Microsoft and are clearly ignored.

Thank you,
Erez Harari

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Re: Windows 8.1 Problems - YAMAHA STEINBERG DRIVER PROBLEM

Post by Ed Doll » Tue Jun 24, 2014 2:11 pm

Thanks for the update! I will forward this topic to Yamaha again. Maybe there is something that can still be done but please understand that even that might not change anything.
At least the legacy drivers helped a bit...
Ed Doll, Support Manager
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Re: Windows 8.1 Problems - YAMAHA STEINBERG DRIVER PROBLEM

Post by Ed Doll » Wed Jun 25, 2014 9:46 am

ukdino, could you let us know which Firewire card you use in your system? The Gigabyte GA-Z87X-UD3H usually does not have a built-in Firewire controller.
Ed Doll, Support Manager
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Re: Windows 8.1 Problems - YAMAHA STEINBERG DRIVER PROBLEM

Post by very_random_man » Mon Dec 08, 2014 5:27 pm

I've also been experiencing the joys of FireWire and Win 8.1 and been scouring the web for solutions.

You will all pleased to know that MS have released a signed Legacy FireWire driver!

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/usbcoreblog/arc ... ckage.aspx

Try to share this on any boards you're on as there's so much talk about using the Win 7 drivers that it took a surprising amount of time to find this!

Enjoy! :D
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