Rack instruments Vs. Instrument tracks

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sedgetone
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Rack instruments Vs. Instrument tracks

Post by sedgetone » Wed Dec 10, 2014 1:50 pm

With the ability to now route multiple midi tracks to an instrument track... do we really need rack instruments any more?

What work flows are you guys using where there's a pro to having an instrument loaded into the rack which isn't an instrument track?

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Re: Rack instruments Vs. Instrument tracks

Post by JMCecil » Wed Dec 10, 2014 5:06 pm

with the ability to have multiple midi tracks and multiple audio outs, do we need Instrument Tracks?
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Re: Rack instruments Vs. Instrument tracks

Post by greggybud » Wed Dec 10, 2014 6:01 pm

sedgetone wrote:With the ability to now route multiple midi tracks to an instrument track... do we really need rack instruments any more?

What work flows are you guys using where there's a pro to having an instrument loaded into the rack which isn't an instrument track?
Absolutely not. (unless the issue below...see last post) has been fixed in C8.

http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtop ... 81&t=68610

While the feature of "save selected" may not be something you use, I believe others use it quite a bit. And "save selected" does not work for instrument tracks on the mix console. It works with all other forums such as midi, audio, etc but not instrument tracks.
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Re: Rack instruments Vs. Instrument tracks

Post by JMCecil » Wed Dec 10, 2014 6:03 pm

I like my snide response better .. Instrument tracks are unnecessary. Rack is the way to go. They just need to let us save track presets with Rack Instruments.
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Re: Rack instruments Vs. Instrument tracks

Post by sedgetone » Wed Dec 10, 2014 6:35 pm

The only real advantage I could see is track presets with instruments. Thanks for the input guys.

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Re: Rack instruments Vs. Instrument tracks

Post by mbr » Wed Dec 10, 2014 7:16 pm

Can't they just combine the two into one ?
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Re: Rack instruments Vs. Instrument tracks

Post by JMCecil » Wed Dec 10, 2014 7:43 pm

mbr wrote:Can't they just combine the two into one ?
Only if they fix it so that instruments tracks behaved like Rack instruments.
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Re: Rack instruments Vs. Instrument tracks

Post by Starsprinkler » Wed Dec 10, 2014 7:52 pm

greggybud wrote:And "save selected" does not work for instrument tracks on the mix console.
It's "only" the Main Output that does not work for Instrument Tracks / "Save selected Channels".
So a workaround is to use output 2-16 until this issue is fixed. Is it fixed in C8 yet?
http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtop ... 84&t=55789

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Re: Rack instruments Vs. Instrument tracks

Post by curteye » Wed Dec 10, 2014 7:59 pm

Aloha guys,
Just to chime in

IMHO its nice to have the availble options.

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Re: Rack instruments Vs. Instrument tracks

Post by vespesian » Wed Dec 10, 2014 8:13 pm

There are also no midi sends from instrument tracks.

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Re: Rack instruments Vs. Instrument tracks

Post by jose7822 » Wed Dec 10, 2014 8:41 pm

curteye wrote:Aloha guys,
Just to chime in

IMHO its nice to have the availble options.

{'-'}

I agree.

They both have their uses, so I don't see either of them going away anytime soon.
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Re: Rack instruments Vs. Instrument tracks

Post by raino » Wed Dec 10, 2014 8:46 pm

jose7822 wrote: They both have their uses, so I don't see either of them going away anytime soon.
Plus you need to have both of them for compatibility with older projects
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Re: Rack instruments Vs. Instrument tracks

Post by sedgetone » Wed Dec 10, 2014 8:59 pm

I wonder if the expanded functionality added to C8 for instrument tracks are meant to encourage us to switch away from rack instruments?

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Re: Rack instruments Vs. Instrument tracks

Post by raino » Thu Dec 11, 2014 12:51 am

sedgetone wrote:I wonder if the expanded functionality added to C8 for instrument tracks are meant to encourage us to switch away from rack instruments?
I think you're right.
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Re: Rack instruments Vs. Instrument tracks

Post by JMCecil » Thu Dec 11, 2014 1:20 am

raino wrote:
sedgetone wrote:I wonder if the expanded functionality added to C8 for instrument tracks are meant to encourage us to switch away from rack instruments?
I think you're right.
That would be great if they actually provided the functions of rack instruments.
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Re: Rack instruments Vs. Instrument tracks

Post by jgale » Thu Dec 11, 2014 1:54 am

With the functionality of Instrument Tracks much improved in recent versions - I have been switching to using them almost exclusively. However, we still need options, and I would never want to see the Rack Instrument functionality removed.
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Re: Rack instruments Vs. Instrument tracks

Post by James K » Thu Dec 11, 2014 3:02 am

I prefer instrument tracks.
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Re: Rack instruments Vs. Instrument tracks

Post by nke » Thu Dec 11, 2014 12:53 pm

raino wrote:
jose7822 wrote: They both have their uses, so I don't see either of them going away anytime soon.
Plus you need to have both of them for compatibility with older projects
I think this is the real reason. If they didn't have both options available, a lot of users would be in a world of hurt having to rebuild archived projects whenever they pulled them out of cold storage. The bigger the projects, the bigger the headache. Working templates would have to be rebuilt too.

They'd *quiz* off their long time professional user base big time.
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Re: Rack instruments Vs. Instrument tracks

Post by silhouette » Thu Dec 11, 2014 1:18 pm

My main need for Rack Instruments seems to be Native Instruments inability to sort out Kontakt's instability in the Instrument Track. Every so often the sound goes and you have to reload the instrument which can be very annoying. It does not happen in the Rack.
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Re: Rack instruments Vs. Instrument tracks

Post by jose7822 » Thu Dec 11, 2014 3:09 pm

silhouette wrote:My main need for Rack Instruments seems to be Native Instruments inability to sort out Kontakt's instability in the Instrument Track. Every so often the sound goes and you have to reload the instrument which can be very annoying. It does not happen in the Rack.
I never have this problem and I use Instrument Tracks almost exclusively. This is with the Kontakt Player though.
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Re: Rack instruments Vs. Instrument tracks

Post by silhouette » Thu Dec 11, 2014 4:35 pm

jose7822 wrote:
silhouette wrote:My main need for Rack Instruments seems to be Native Instruments inability to sort out Kontakt's instability in the Instrument Track. Every so often the sound goes and you have to reload the instrument which can be very annoying. It does not happen in the Rack.
I never have this problem and I use Instrument Tracks almost exclusively. This is with the Kontakt Player though.
You know I never understand how as soon as you post an issue that you are having, someone pops up to say that they never have this issue. No offence jose7822, but it rarely helps to track down the problem. I understand that not everyone will have the same problem because each of our systems are different, set up differently with different plugins.

However, looking at your specs I think I know why I might be having this drop out. You certainly have a lot more RAM than me. Thinking about it I have BFD3 and Session horns running together as well as a number of sample based instruments. Mmmmm! I guess I have to thank you after all! :shock:
A new computer is on the way and I will see then if it sorts the problem.

I have to say that I do prefer the Instrument tracks as it is much easier to do the basic stuff like adjusting the volume etc. rather that going to the mixer.
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Re: Rack instruments Vs. Instrument tracks

Post by beatpete » Thu Dec 11, 2014 6:05 pm

Another advantage (and the only one for me) is being able to load all the names of the audio outs from the VSTi. This is VERY useful for large orchestral templates and I wish we had the option to save audio track names in the Rack. For instance, I have a template that utilizes 60 stereo VEP tracks and when I built a new template, I had to rename each track (using a "rack" instrument).
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Re: Rack instruments Vs. Instrument tracks

Post by jose7822 » Thu Dec 11, 2014 9:58 pm

Silhouette,

I know that saying, "well, mine works just fine", doesn't help you directly. But it does provide insight that perhaps there is something going on with the system being used. The same is true when people report having the same issue with a piece of software. That was the intention behind my post :-)
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Re: Rack instruments Vs. Instrument tracks

Post by cnk » Thu Dec 11, 2014 11:32 pm

Hello,

I've a question about rack vs inst tracks;

If I use a track instrument; when I change the name of track instrument track on cubase screen, it also changes the name on mixer with the same name

But If I use a rack instrument; when I change the name of the midi track, the name on mixer does not change. So I have to make all changes for mixer too. If there are hundreds of tracks coming from rack instruments, I have to rename tracks twice. Is there a way to change both rack instrument's track name and related mixer channel's name at the same time?

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Re: Rack instruments Vs. Instrument tracks

Post by raino » Fri Dec 12, 2014 1:02 am

cnk wrote:Hello,

I've a question about rack vs inst tracks;

If I use a track instrument; when I change the name of track instrument track on cubase screen, it also changes the name on mixer with the same name

But If I use a rack instrument; when I change the name of the midi track, the name on mixer does not change. So I have to make all changes for mixer too. If there are hundreds of tracks coming from rack instruments, I have to rename tracks twice. Is there a way to change both rack instrument's track name and related mixer channel's name at the same time?
No not really. With the Instrument track the MIDI and audio are tightly integrated. But a rack Track just uses a midi channel as an input. And you could if you wanted send 20, 30 or more MIDI Tracks to the same Rack Instrument (why :?: but you can). In that case you wouldn't want changing the name of one of many MIDI Track also change the name of the Audio Channel in the mixer. The same behavior also also happens if you use the relatively new capability of routing multiple MIDI Tracks to an Instrument Track. In that case changing the MIDI Track name does not change the name of the Audio Channel it is playing on in the mixer - although changing the name of the instrument Track will because of its tight audio/midi integration.
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