Most frustating update - ever

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Most frustating update - ever

Post by electrow » Sun Dec 28, 2014 8:43 am

I'm not going to rant about any thing in particular. Maybe it is my system. I don't know. Just way too many glitches.

I have been use Cubase since the Atari days and Pro 8 has me mystified. I've never had any real issues with the progressing versions of Cubase till now. I've been trying to set up some templates for three days and every day is a new problem. Like others C7.5 runs perfectly compared to C8.

Tonight I made a template with mostly Steinberg vsts. I do a test piece with just Prologue. After I stop recording, a note is hanging and the only way to shut it off is to change a patch. I close the project, reopen it and all the patches I had selected for others instruments are back to their default settings. I record another track and it may end with a hanging note also. Sometimes midi reset works, other times it doesn't. I notice that the performance meter spikes sometimes when I change a patch or start playing a different instrument.

It is hard to believe it could just be my ignorance when C7.5 runs so smooth in comparison.

It seems my only choices are back to 7.5 or reformat and start over :cry:

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Re: Most frustating update - ever

Post by shadowfax » Sun Dec 28, 2014 9:10 am

My sympathies to you, I've been having probs also, yesterday I did a clean re install of my windows 7 and today i will install CP8 with no third party plugins on a very clean new OS...I will post my results later today...

Kevin :)
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Re: Most frustating update - ever

Post by enjneer » Sun Dec 28, 2014 1:56 pm

+1

I have an important client on Tuesday and can't even dream of using C8, either to track or mix, after the experience I had with C8 so far!

I've paid $USD 100 to buy a placeholder for the working version of Cubase, it seems.
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Re: Most frustating update - ever

Post by electrow » Sun Dec 28, 2014 5:25 pm

shadowfax wrote:My sympathies to you, I've been having probs also, yesterday I did a clean re install of my windows 7 and today i will install CP8 with no third party plugins on a very clean new OS...I will post my results later today...

Kevin :)
Thanks shadowfax for trying the 're-install approach. I really thought that would be the answer. I could understand the extent of issues if steiny came out and said something like: C8 is optimized for Win8, with such and such specs with a thousand gigs of ram
As has been said over and over that it's hard to believe we each have issues particular to our systems now that we upgraded to C8, where as with C7.5 everything works. If that were the case Steinberg should indicate system specs which do work with 8.0. I'd really like to use this "new" version but wouldn't even know where to begin.

As to the thread on systems which do work with 8.0 has anyone found any consistency in setups? I'm not much of a technical person but it might be helpful if the opposite approach was also taken:

Such as who is using a recent custom built system with the latest operating system and is still have issues with C8.0. At least then maybe the questions regarding system setup could be narrowed if not eliminated as to being a real part of the problem(s).

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Re: Most frustating update - ever

Post by DLearyUS » Sun Dec 28, 2014 5:45 pm

considering all the new bugs AND reintroducing OLD bugs eg MCU now broken worked fine in 7.5 im starting to think its a deliberate business model to keep everyone chasing/waiting for updates. you lost a customer never again will i spend my money on this junk. i recently loaded my very old (2002) emagic sound diver on win7-64. it runs perfectly which proves that software CAN be coded properly. no wonder apple bought them out and promptly killed it. this whole bug/patch business model is deliberate people! military jets use custom microsoft operating systems.. do you really think theres any bugs/bsods?

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Re: Most frustating update - ever

Post by themarqueeyears » Sun Dec 28, 2014 5:49 pm

I'm just wondering what's going on, because on my system CP8 has been honestly really superb and way faster and slicker than C7.5!!

Before I installed CP8 I called SB support to ask the best method and they suggested the following which I followed,

* I fully updated W7 64, I fully updated my device drivers FX and VI plugins.

* I temporarily renamed my C7.5 preference folder so that CP8 ignored it when launching for the first time.

* The only single thing I copied over from C7.5 was my Key Command preference file, all other preferences were re-created.

I should note I use a Pro built audio PC (I don't build my own as I don't have time these days)

Good luck, hope you sort out your issues.

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Re: Most frustating update - ever

Post by electrow » Sun Dec 28, 2014 7:38 pm

My W7 64 was fully up to date, have a pro built system also. That leaves some NI VST updates as well as preference folder blocking. But the other thing we don't know is the extent of each other's project setups. I have found C8 to actually be slower loading a project after start-up than C7.5 is
themarqueeyears wrote:I'm just wondering what's going on, because on my system CP8 has been honestly really superb and way faster and slicker than C7.5!!

Before I installed CP8 I called SB support to ask the best method and they suggested the following which I followed,

* I fully updated W7 64, I fully updated my device drivers FX and VI plugins.

* I temporarily renamed my C7.5 preference folder so that CP8 ignored it when launching for the first time.

* The only single thing I copied over from C7.5 was my Key Command preference file, all other preferences were re-created.

I should note I use a Pro built audio PC (I don't build my own as I don't have time these days)

Good luck, hope you sort out your issues.

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Re: Most frustating update - ever

Post by silhouette » Sun Dec 28, 2014 8:25 pm

It's very strange, but the only real issue I have had with Cubase 8 has been the click problem. It seems to work better than 7.5 in terms of CPU - except for the UAD Card/plugins. However, weirdly it does not seem to affect my guitar playing in terms of latency. It has taken me a while to get used to the new window organisation. I get a new computer in a week or so. It will be interesting to see how a fresh install works. I am guessing that a lot of the problems that people have been having is the carry over of templates and other preferences for new projects. I also suppose that the changes to the mixer and other new features cause issues with old projects. I expect I will find out when I install 8 on the new machine. Fingers crossed!!!! :?:
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Re: Most frustating update - ever

Post by Codex » Sun Dec 28, 2014 10:53 pm

I hope everyone that has has troubles with C8 can sort them out as soon as possible.
For my part I had no problem whatsoever switching to Cubase 8 from 7.5. I even took over all my preferences, keycommands and templates without hassle (of course IU had to redo my window layouts because of the new window management). Everything runs very smooth here, however I also use a dedicated, custom built audio PC that was optimized for audio usage and has no unnecessary software or drivers installed on it.
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Re: Most frustating update - ever

Post by quantum7 » Mon Dec 29, 2014 7:19 am

The only problems I've had with 8 so far have been the click problem and a few minor Windows annoyances....which I'm confident SB will have straightened soon with updates....nothing that has been a show-stopper though. I am using Windows 8.1 and all Windows updates are up-to-date. Hopefully others will solve their problems soon because Cubase 8 does have a lot of nice features that I personally wouldn't want to be without after experiencing them.
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Re: Most frustating update - ever

Post by Bantam » Mon Dec 29, 2014 6:53 pm

I'd go thru the options both in Cubase and your soundcards just to see if any changes might be affecting performance. Any of you overclocked? That can have a bearing.
Also, although my system was new when C8 came out, those with non-SSD drives might need a thorough defragging after the installation which is largish. I have noticed since C8 installation, while not much of the above issues, that my C drive has been using more space than is usual. Could be Cubase, I'm still looking at it.
Might be time to transfer some of these issues to the Issues section.
nb: Fragmentation can affect some programs in very strange ways as they look for their bits and pieces all over the drive. The program slows down and functions can get sluggish or even fail. The more you use Cubase the more it has to look for. Things will overtake each other, cancel each other out as functions are overtaken. When this happens things can look like bugs. Then there are real bugs...

Now we need a real expert to tell me what really happens. I'm just guessing from my own advice from my tech friends. Some of which advice works, some doesn't. Hope some of this works for you guys.
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Re: Most frustating update - ever

Post by Svenne » Mon Dec 29, 2014 8:03 pm

"Most frustating update - ever". I don't think I agree. As far as I recall, v7.0 had quite a lot of problems when it was released aswell. I guess that's what's to be expected with X.0.0 versions.

Perhaps Steinberg should consider releasing public betas in order to get help catching all these glitches.
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Re: Most frustating update - ever

Post by enjneer » Mon Dec 29, 2014 8:55 pm

Svenne wrote:Perhaps Steinberg should consider releasing public betas in order to get help catching all these glitches.
+1

At least expand the beta userbase.
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Re: Most frustating update - ever

Post by UltimateOutsider » Tue Dec 30, 2014 8:33 am

All you guys experiencing issues with Cubase 8- I hope you're submitting support tickets about these problems.

If you do maybe they'll be fixed by the time I upgrade. (With Steinberg, I always wait until at least one service pack has been released.)

Early adopters who report their problems through formal channels do the rest of the community a service. Thanks for your efforts!

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Re: Most frustating update - ever

Post by jose7822 » Tue Dec 30, 2014 8:52 am

UltimateOutsider wrote:All you guys experiencing issues with Cubase 8- I hope you're submitting support tickets about these problems.

If you do maybe they'll be fixed by the time I upgrade. (With Steinberg, I always wait until at least one service pack has been released.)

Early adopters who report their problems through formal channels do the rest of the community a service. Thanks for your efforts!
Yeah! We're like Veterans to you :-P

In all seriousness though, my sympathies to those having problems with C8. Unfortunately, this is the down side of owning a PC, too many variables in hardware/software. It also comes down to how good you are at troubleshooting a system, which takes lots of time, knowledge and patience. It's the reason why you never upgrade ANYTHING on your system while working on serious projects (especially client ones). We all learn this sooner or later, usually through experience I'm afraid (me included). But always treat a point version of a software as a beta version, and wait until at least a few maintenance updates before upgrading. It's the safest route.

NOTE: Obviously, this is not directed at you Ultimate (except the first line :-D)
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Re: Most frustating update - ever

Post by mrjixies » Tue Dec 30, 2014 9:00 am

DLearyUS wrote:considering all the new bugs AND reintroducing OLD bugs eg MCU now broken worked fine in 7.5 im starting to think its a deliberate business model to keep everyone chasing/waiting for updates. you lost a customer never again will i spend my money on this junk. i recently loaded my very old (2002) emagic sound diver on win7-64. it runs perfectly which proves that software CAN be coded properly. no wonder apple bought them out and promptly killed it. this whole bug/patch business model is deliberate people! military jets use custom microsoft operating systems.. do you really think theres any bugs/bsods?

unhappy camper
This is exactly why I did not buy the 7.5 and 8 updates! Trust me as long as people are buying these updates while the latest version still have major bugs, things are not going to change.

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Re: Most frustating update - ever

Post by Carvin » Tue Dec 30, 2014 9:13 am

UltimateOutsider wrote:All you guys experiencing issues with Cubase 8- I hope you're submitting support tickets about these problems.

If you do maybe they'll be fixed by the time I upgrade. (With Steinberg, I always wait until at least one service pack has been released.)

Early adopters who report their problems through formal channels do the rest of the community a service. Thanks for your efforts!
Agree. Thanks for testing ;)

That said:
I always update once released, but I only install on two-three different test computers (Win 7 and Win 8.1 these days).
I obviously test large real world projects, but don't throw my self in the water in front of clients ;)

I tend to stay a x.5 release behind, before bringing new updates in for production (but are jumping C7/7.5 completely).

My main studio DAW are still on Nuendo 5.5 and Cubase 6.5 (for client work), Reaper 4.7 and Studio One 2.6 (for a small fraction of client based projects). And PT (mostly for compatibility).

Cubase 7/7.5 and Nuendo 6.5 are "written off" (don't like them). For C8 I have some hope left (for now), and I am eagerly waiting for Studio One v3 ;)

PS. I am about to follow Tom Petty's engineer (and Tom Petty him self). They "Froze" their DAW systems back in 2006.

“Focusing on the music, rather than on the gear, is a real lesson and challenge for everybody who is an engineer and/or a mixer,” says Ryan Ulyate. “Even if you don’t play an instrument, you need to be a musician at heart. I don’t want to be constantly updating things.
Throughout my career I’ve always had my favourite bits of gear, and I want to make sure that I can always work with them. It’s very annoying when things change and a company suddenly says, ‘This or that plug-in is no longer compatible with the next update.’
Imagine if a vintage gear company said, ‘Sorry, you can’t use your Pultec any more.’ For me it’s like: ‘Wait a minute, that’s part of my sound!’ That’s just unacceptable.
I’m making music and if I’m acting like a system administrator all the time, I’m not having any fun. This is one reason why I froze my system in 2006.”

Well. Have a nice New Year in 2015.

Thanks again for testing, and please remember to report (while I make some music) :mrgreen:
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Re: Most frustating update - ever

Post by silhouette » Tue Dec 30, 2014 10:58 am

Carvin wrote:“Focusing on the music, rather than on the gear, is a real lesson and challenge for everybody who is an engineer and/or a mixer,”[/b] says Ryan Ulyate. “Even if you don’t play an instrument, you need to be a musician at heart. I don’t want to be constantly updating things.
Throughout my career I’ve always had my favourite bits of gear, and I want to make sure that I can always work with them. It’s very annoying when things change and a company suddenly says, ‘This or that plug-in is no longer compatible with the next update.’
Imagine if a vintage gear company said, ‘Sorry, you can’t use your Pultec any more.’ For me it’s like: ‘Wait a minute, that’s part of my sound!’ That’s just unacceptable.
I’m making music and if I’m acting like a system administrator all the time, I’m not having any fun. This is one reason why I froze my system in 2006.”

Well. Have a nice New Year in 2015.

Thanks again for testing, and please remember to report (while I make some music) :mrgreen:
This is an interesting point of view. However to apply it to myself I would still be working in 32 bit.
As a musician and writer I would find sticking with exactly the same gear as much a problem as constantly updating. I am not being funny here, but getting too familiar with your gear can mean that you don't try new things and as a consequence you don't grow. Ryan Ulyate has probably forgotten more than I will ever know and I am sure that I would love to have his skill with coaxing the best out of his artists. However I am my own artist, for better or worse. I need that new technique, or new sound FX or interesting new instrument to experiment with. The L4 that made me play in a different way with heavy flatwound strings. Diva that made me get off my backside and learn how to create my own sounds, or Fab Filters Pro EQ that made me really think about how I used or perhaps misused eq.

I can appreciate how a studio pro needs some certainty in their lives, indeed how essential for their clients. However many users of Cubase need the infusion of new life and inspiration. Having said that we also need a stable platform and not to spend endless hours trouble shooting. Although, speaking personally, it is those endless hours that have made me a lot more knowledgeable about this strange, creative and compulsive activity we are all engaged upon.
Last edited by silhouette on Wed Dec 31, 2014 1:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Most frustating update - ever

Post by Svenne » Tue Dec 30, 2014 11:58 am

Carvin wrote:PS. I am about to follow Tom Petty's engineer (and Tom Petty him self). They "Froze" their DAW systems back in 2006.
I don't know where you've got this info, but I seriously suspect that it's a myth. The recording industry has always evolved technically. Why do you think we're not still recording on Phonographs. There is no such thing as "freezing" creativity. That's equal to stagnation. And "freezing" your technology inevitably leads to freezing your creativity which, in turn, leads to stagnation.

I don't believe for a second that Tom Petty is still using 8 year old technology exclusively. Perhaps he "froze" his DAW in 2006, but I'm pretty sure he "thawed" it up again in 2007. Furthermore, if you have outside clients coming in, you're dead in the water.

Good luck with your museum pieces.
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Re: Most frustating update - ever

Post by Bantam » Wed Dec 31, 2014 1:05 am

Someone like Tom Petty might have a "thawed" system as backup but as they can afford to update pretty much what is needed to update, ie: get a whole new system to run new software if needed and set aside time to learn new stuff, I doubt if that's what they use exclusively for everyday working.
And there's plenty of experienced Cubase users who don't have many problems with new purchases to hire to run the latest version from what we see here in the forum, if Tom Petty needs to.
It's the old conundrum. If you're successful at anything DAW related then you can afford the latest, or at least the most recent, working systems as they cost pretty much pocket money prices. Much less than say, a plasma TV or a car. Sound proofing and calibrating a pro studio costs WAY more.
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Re: Most frustating update - ever

Post by electrow » Wed Dec 31, 2014 2:37 am

Here are my computer specs:

Intel(R) Core(TM) i7 CPU
920@2.67GHz
6 gigs RAM

built first of 2010 by Purrfect Audio (studiocat.com)

I mention this now as I've noticed in the thread regarding those who have systems which are working smoothly with C8, one of the things I've noticed is most (PC speaking only) most have at least 8 gigs ram and I'm assuming my processor speed is on the slow side.

I'm not that technically savvy so I don't know if my observation has any relevance to possible minimum system requirements for C8. Anyone with a more informed opinion on this observation?

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Re: Most frustating update - ever

Post by electrow » Wed Dec 31, 2014 3:37 am

I asked Jim to compare the system I'm currently using with today's "standards". Based upon his reply I wonder if part of my problem is that C8 is a transitional upgrade as far as system requirements are concerned. Would it make sense that the diversity of problems are because there are many of us with "borderline" systems as far as today's performance demands are concerned? Just speculating as I don't really know.

His reply:


Your machine has an i7-920 CPU (quad core) running at 2.66GHz This was the original i7 series.
We're now 4 generations of i7 CPUs later (2nd generation of Haswell).

The (current) Pro Studio DAW has an i7 4790k (quad-core) running at 4.4GHz.
There's a major performance difference vs. the original i7-920 -Memory bandwidth is much higher -Memory speed is higher -Advances in CPU architecture result in higher performance at a given clock-speed -The 4790k is running at much higher clock speed (4.4GHz vs. 2.66GHz)

It's hard to put the performance difference into a meaningful flat figure (as there are many variables).
But the performance difference is HUGE.
You'll be able to run very substantial loads at the smallest ASIO buffer sizes.
Things like running multiple convolution reverbs would be absolutely no problem.
You'd be able to work with much more dense/extensive projects.

Five years results in significant performance gains with computer hardware.
:-)


Best Regards,
Jim Roseberry

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Re: Most frustating update - ever

Post by Carvin » Wed Dec 31, 2014 6:06 pm

Svenne wrote:
Carvin wrote:PS. I am about to follow Tom Petty's engineer (and Tom Petty him self). They "Froze" their DAW systems back in 2006.
I don't know where you've got this info,
In the nov 2014 issue of SOS magazine.
They are still on Pro Tools 7.4, only upgraded with two plugins since 2006 (Decapitator and one more).

They are of corse using their old trusted hardware (which don't need updates ;) ).
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Re: Most frustating update - ever

Post by Svenne » Thu Jan 01, 2015 12:15 pm

Carvin wrote:
Svenne wrote:
Carvin wrote:PS. I am about to follow Tom Petty's engineer (and Tom Petty him self). They "Froze" their DAW systems back in 2006.
I don't know where you've got this info,
In the nov 2014 issue of SOS magazine.
They are still on Pro Tools 7.4, only upgraded with two plugins since 2006 (Decapitator and one more).

They are of corse using their old trusted hardware (which don't need updates ;) ).
I've checked out what I could of this article. I'll have to wait several more months until the whole article will become freely available. But from what I could access I could only deduce this:
1) It's Tom Petty's engineer, Ryan Ulyate, that has this opinion. Tom himself has said nothing about it. I don't claim to know how technically savvy Tom is. Just because he's a good musician doesn't mean that he understands jack about the technology. Remember John Lennon, who wanted to have a jack operated into his neck, so that he could pipe his voice directly into the console, bypassing the microphone.

2) I don't see any reference that Ryan Ulyate has "frozen" his DAW at the 2006 level. The only reference to 2006 is that he recorded Tom Petty's solo album "Highway Companion" and that he built his studio that year.

Even is what you refer to is mentioned somewhere else in the artcle (that I can't access), I find the claim highly unbelievable. It wouldn't be the first time an article writer or reader has gotten things wrong. That being said, I's possible to "freeze" your system (not only the DAW, you'll have to "freeze" almost everything) for 8 years, if you're the only one using the studio and never bring in projects recorded elsewhere. There are still artists that use Cubase on the Atari ST.

If you use Cubase in any commercial endeavor what so ever (which I suppose the majority of Cubase users do), it would be commercial and technical suicide to do so. You'd be totally isolated.

How far back do you think Steinberg should go to accommodate compatibility? Is it enough that they support your computer (remember that their is always someone running a system a generation older than yours and so on), or should they guarantee compatibility all the way back to the Atari 1040ST?. Steinberg has to draw the line somewhere and the further back they go, the more development work is required which means a higher price for the software.

That being said, I agree that Steinberg's policy of only supporting the current and the previous (at least on the Mac) OS versions is a bit stingy. I think they should go back two OS version, and include OSX 10.8. On the other hand, any computer that could handle 10.8 can run 10.10, so...
Cubase Pro 8.5.20 + IC Pro, WaveLab Elements 9.0.30, Mac Pro 2.8GHz 8-core 8GB, 10.11.6 (El Capitan), MR 816X, Avid Control/Mix, iPad Air (128GB), Cubasis 2.0, iTrack Dock.

Bantam
Junior Member
Posts: 118
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2014 1:58 pm

Re: Most frustating update - ever

Post by Bantam » Thu Jan 01, 2015 5:04 pm

“I’ve been very happy using the same Pro Tools system for seven years, because everything works, and I don’t spend my time chasing down the latest upgrades. Once Pro Tools got to version 7.4, all the main really important mix features had been integrated, and any new developments since then have not really been that important for our process. In any case, I value stability over being cutting edge.
The full quote I believe. This just refers to his studio and is valid although Tom Petty himself probably has something a little different. If you're just mixing and don't need the bells like pitch shift or auto-correct because the band's half decent then there's nothing wrong with that.
However, it's one man's opinion on the technology generally and is irrelevant to bolster any argument that might be going on here. And I think he would agree. He's not knocking Pro Tools, he's just pointing out that not much has moved enough for him to NEED an upgrade after 7.4. I wish that more "pro" Cubase users had the same attitude. At least Ryan Ulyate doesn't spend all week on a forum moaning forever that it stops his workflowingness. He probably looks at updates once a year and maybe tries a demo and "Nope. There's nothing there for me..." job done, still have a life.
Happy new year everyone. Have a good one.
i7 3.20gHz; 16gig ram; Win 8.1; Asus z87-k mother.

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