VST Connect - Draw me a path/map of connections

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3seas
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VST Connect - Draw me a path/map of connections

Post by 3seas » Tue Feb 10, 2015 3:39 am

Simple setup:

engineer side using a UR44:
input channel 1&2 - Mic/vocal effects
input channel 3&4 - keyboard/Midi input
input channel 5 - Talk-back
input channel 6 - mono

performer side using UR22:
input channel 1 - Mic
input channel 2 - instrument
headphone out - mix to performer

between the performer and engineer:
VST Connect Performer
Cubase 8.05 and VST Connect Pro

Target/Goal
To be able to send the UR44 mix of input channels to the performer UR22/VST Connect Performer via Cybase/VST Connect Pro. And be able to receive both channels of the UR22 into Cubase.

Of course this starts at the accessible audio/midi hardware at both ends going into Cubase VST Connections under the main Cubase toolbar "Devices." The interface where hardware meets software. What is not set here does not go from engineer to performer, Unless it is audio/midi internally generated in Cubase. From Performer to engineer the UR22 must be set to the VST connect performer. Either the Performer or the engineer can set this in the configuration in the VST Connect online Interface (UR22 must be connected and its driver installed on the performers computer based device.) Performers side is simple.

The Question is:
How would the connections map of Cubase Main Toolbar/devices/ VST Connections tabs/dialogs be set up like?


I understand: The map of this is only the entry, via VST Connection, into Cubase. This is only a start of mapping a simple configuration flow through Cubase, via VST Connect pro/performer

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Re: VST Connect - Draw me a path/map of connections

Post by BriHar » Tue Feb 10, 2015 8:54 am

3seas wrote:Target/GoalTo be able to send the UR44 mix of input channels to the performer UR22/VST Connect Performer via Cybase/VST Connect Pro. And be able to receive both channels of the UR22 into Cubase.
I don't think that (Live jamming) is currently possible.
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3seas
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Re: VST Connect - Draw me a path/map of connections

Post by 3seas » Tue Feb 10, 2015 2:24 pm

Internet lags do not allow Live jamming. LAN Lags if the LAN is optimized for the task, might be but its only two locations, engineer and performer. Its better to hardwire audio/MIDI in a studio environment than to use VST Connect over LAN. General rule is to not put unnecessary and potentially noiseor problem creating equipment in the signal paths. It'd be wonderful if someone had a product that overcame lag problems at multiple locations, only with current technology that is fantasy. Maybe when Quantum Entanglement is Commercialized....

Live jamming is not the question here. The question is about connection paths to and from Cubase via VST Connect
and using Steinberg Audio/Midi Interfaces.

The purpose of the question is for learning mainly how to properly setup use VST Connect and on this Steinberg forum board. Then perhaps collaboration, where delay is understood, as it needs to be with anyone using VST Connect.

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Re: VST Connect - Draw me a path/map of connections

Post by 3seas » Thu Feb 12, 2015 5:32 am

VST Connect sound easy in theory.
Two (2) Plugins: VST Connect SE or Pro & VST Connect Cue Mix
VST Connect Cue Mix needs to be inserted on a group channel
VST Connect (SE/PRO) needs to be inserted on an audio input bus

UR44 input Line #5 is dedicated to "Cubase/Devices/VST Connections/Studio" labeled "TAlkback".
Studio.PNG
Studio Talkback setting
(84.8 KiB) Not downloaded yet
"Talkback" is set to "VST Connect Monitor" in the Control Room
Cubase VST Connect requires four (4) tracks to set up VST Connect:
a Performer Record, a Performer Monitor, a Playback and a group track To Performer.
mix console.PNG
Mix Console Rack & Control Room
(92.9 KiB) Not downloaded yet
Whatever Device ports set for TB/Performer gets routed to Performer Record & Performer Monitor
inputs.PNG
VST Connections Inputs
(97.49 KiB) Not downloaded yet
This seems confusing to me. Guess I don't understand what all VST Connect is doing with audio signals.
But something is not right.

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Re: VST Connect - Draw me a path/map of connections

Post by 3seas » Thu Feb 12, 2015 5:59 am

Things about Cubase & VST Connect that make things difficult.
Create a group channel and delete it.... it still shows up in the list. Why? A bug or is there a reason?

Using a KVM switch to another computer running VST Connect Performer, once I switch and switch back some requesters are thrown up and mostly out of mouse range where I cannot access it or drag it down. Have to use Windows Control panel to set and revert monitor settings to make the requester accessible.

No matter what sample rate I have set that other system will want it different - causing the above process to need to be done again. And in trying to set the engineer side the warning pops up rather quickly & repeatedly making it difficult to get to the setting for sample rate.

And often when I want to start fresh I have to go through Windows Task Manager to get Cubase 8 to completely shut down and these things along with other problems of something going wrong in the software and being asked to save my work and reopen it under a different name or some such..

With all this.... having a known working map might help take the quess work out of whether or not its some setting or just Cubase failing,
Last edited by 3seas on Thu Feb 12, 2015 1:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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musicullum
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Re: VST Connect - Draw me a path/map of connections

Post by musicullum » Thu Feb 12, 2015 11:22 am

3seas wrote:Things about Cubase & VST Connect that make things difficult.
Create a group channel and delete it.... it still shows up in the list. Why? A bug or is there a reason?
Slow please :-)
"it" shows up in the list..what is "it", the Group channel? what list are you refering to?
3seas wrote:Using a KVM switch to another computer running VST Connect Performer, one I switch and switch back some requesters are thrown up and mostly out of mouse range taht I cannot access it or drag it down. Have to use Windows Control panel to set and revert monitor settings to make teh requester accessible.
You entirely lost me, sorry. I guess this has nothing to do with VST Connect specifically...
3seas wrote:No matter what sample rate I have set that other system will want it different - causing the above process to need to be done again. And in trying to set the engineer side the warning pops up rather quickly & repeatedly making it difficult to get to the setting for sample rate.
VST Connect requires the Performer sample rate to match Cubendos' rate. When the plug finds out that the Performer rate is different, it sends a request to the Performer for it to change its rate. Usually the Performer device will simply switch the rate then. If it refuses to do so (only very few decent interfaces do), you get the warning.
Are you possibly trying to run both Cubase and Performer on the same machine? That won't work.
3seas wrote:And often when I want to start fresh I have to go through Windows Task Manager to get Cubase 8 to shut down and these things along with other problems of something going wrong in the software and being asked to save my work and reopen it under a different name or some such..

With all this.... having a known working map might help take the quess work out of whether or not its some setting or just Cubase failing,
I'm sorry I only get half of what you say.
Anyway, the new PRO version is very close. For the current one, the signal flow is:
- menu Devices/VST Connections: Stereo Input channel "Performer/TB", ports connected to your mic (Talkback)
- mixer: VST Connect PRO plugin inserted in said Input Channel "Performer/TB"
To make it clear: this channel serves two functions: it sends your mic signal to the Performer and receives the Performers' signal. So when you record from this Input channel, you don't get your mic signal as you would without the plugin, but the Performers' signal instead. It's as if the Performers' mic was connected in the VST Connections instead of your TB mic.
- arrangement: audio track "Performer Rec" with Input "Performer/TB" to record the Performer. Set to record, no monitoring
- arrangement:audio track "Performer Mon" with Input "Performer/TB" to hear the Performer. Set to monitoring, no record enable
- arrangement/mixer: add Group channel "To Performer", lower its volume to zero, insert VST Connect Cuemix plugin. This sends whatever enters that Group channel to the Performer. Use sends in playback etc channels to send to this channel.
That's it. There is no way of jamming; when transport is not started, you can chat (your mic sent to Performer via "Performer/TB" and VST Connect PRO plugin, listening to Performer via audio track "Performer Mon" set to monitor) with some delay (like telephone). When you start playback or record, the signal from the "To Performer" group channel is sent to the Performer while nothing happens on your end (Remote Delay setting, usually 1 sec), Performer performs and sends back to your Input channel ("Perf/TB") and when transport finally starts on your end, Performers' signal is in sync with your timeline.
While this sounds complicated, it is just because it's a very detailed description. Use the template as a start.
And with the Cubase 8 SE version and the upcoming new PRO version, it's as easy as selecting "Create VST Connect" from the project menu. There, signal routing is different because it uses the Control Room mixer...but you don't have to worry then, as "Create VST Connect" can be used even with existing projects.
musi

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Re: VST Connect - Draw me a path/map of connections

Post by 3seas » Sat Feb 14, 2015 3:55 pm

This post is only possible because while I thought I was logged on and writing a post , when I went to submit it I was presented with the login. Upon login and going to the page where my editing was supposed to be, it was blank. Some might just say the hell with it not post, like I did the other day cause I had other things to do, But now I tried browser previous page enough to get to what I wrote.... Cherry on top of frustration I suppose. Anyway...

Hi Musicullum,

to clarify, create a group track, delete it and in the inspector, pick any track and change its out to the track you deleted. For fun create another group track by the same name and delete it too. Now see in teh list to group track by the same name.

Its not supposed to be in the list, its been deleted, so why is it in the list?

The requesters becoming inaccessible upon the use of a KVM switch (Keyboard, Video, Mouse) unless going through the multiple extra steps of MS windows to reset the monitor resolution and then revert it back EACH TIME... Cubase/VST Connect is not supposed to have this problem. I don't know what programming tools or language the developers are using but I do know requester can be set to be at center screen. Since a requester can often stop you from doing anything, center screen is better than inaccessible. to have to respond to a requester to be able to make a correction, is painful when the requester pops up again quicker than what it takes to get to where to make the correction.

Shall I report these issues? I tried.... that forum section is locked down... *Steinberg* has deaf ears now? Maybe if I search that forum section for ......... Hmmm Now what might I search for? Lets play a guessing game.... Oh wait, wasn't I trying to do something musically creative? Oh I almost forgot given all the detours all to common.

Warning: Frustration is beginning to set in...

Now maybe if I use a template that probably won't work but assuming it will and...... Wait a minute, If using a template is the only way I might get it to work, does this mean I have to then recreate my project within a template load so to use VST connect in order to maybe get a remote singer to add a track?

NO NO NO.... I'm not doing that!!! VST Connect..... set up within an existing project REQUIRED...... So....oops..... let cubase convert down sample rate of an not so small project so to maybe use VST connect sample rate limitations.... (many inaccessible requester in this process Woooo Hooo)

Now what was I doing again Oh yea.... Creative music... only now I'm too *quiz* off...Time gone for what I was wanting to do... got other thing I have to do.

Hey on the bright side it helps to reduce what dime a dozen artist and their half penny a 100 compilations will participate in the market. Bingo Now I understand!!!!

Best I've gotten is getting a remote live audio from UR22 where the remote artist can hear what signal is sent to the two channels I've VST Connections set to two of the inputs of the UR44. From the engineer side, can't hear anything and in the process of trying to determine paths, I can turn all mixer pots down and no connection to anything except for VST Connect Pro inserted on the channel where the UR44 inputs are set. I can even remove VST connect CUE mix and VST Connect Monitor (which in the template is not there anyway)

Like the only reason for Cubase is to use the VST Connect Pro plugin to connect it to two channels of the UR44 All else seems not have no effect as to whether these other things are there or not.

So is the engineer supposed to rely on visual meter activity while maybe using a phone to communicate with the remote artist. And if a HD recording is being saved on the remote artist side... what resolution of the signal are they getting from the engineer in this "HD recording"?

Cubase 8 pro and VST Connect pro is what is being used in the above.

To repeat - I shouldn't have to go to windows task manager to shut Cubase 8 pro down at times, and teh main menu bar shouldn't vanish while Cubase is in use.

Clearly there are bugs to be worked out of Cubase 8 pro. VST Connect Pro has been out for a while so I suspect the problems are mostly, if not all, in this use of VST Connect to bugs in Cubase 8 pro.

Of course my next efforts will be with Cubase 7.5 and VST Connect Pro...... IIRC I was getting better results though not completely. Maybe I've learned something since that applied to 7.5 will .....

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musicullum
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Re: VST Connect - Draw me a path/map of connections

Post by musicullum » Sat Feb 14, 2015 6:31 pm

In short: loosing text when posting here in forum: been there. It's how the browser works, I learned to select all/copy each time before any action that switches pages.
to clarify, create a group track, delete it and in the inspector, pick any track and change its out to the track you deleted
That's simply not possible and I just don't get you. How can you set a tracks' output to a group channel that doesn't exist anymore? I can't.
For fun create another group track by the same name and delete it too. Now see in teh list to group track by the same name. Its not supposed to be in the list, its been deleted, so why is it in the list?
I already asked what list you refer to. And again when I delete a group track I can't access it anywhere at all - which makes sense.
The requesters becoming inaccessible
I again don't know what you mean, and it looks to me as if this has nothing to do with VST Connect specifically. If you refer to message boxes, they are beeing provided by the operating system and yes, are supposed to appear in the center of the screen and that's what they do on my system all the time.
Wait a minute, If using a template is the only way I might get it to work, does this mean I have to then recreate my project within a template load so to use VST connect in order to maybe get a remote singer to add a track?
The reply above has a detailed explanation how to set it up manually and it is described in the manual too, so nobody said you have to start from scratch with a template. Thus, adding the Input, Group Channel, and audio channels , and apply routing as described is sufficient, and with the new PRO version you can apply "Create VST Connect" also in existing projects.
VST connect sample rate limitations
The only limitation is that the Performers' hardware needs to be such that its sample rate can be changed by the application. I know only very few devices that refuse to apply such a rate change request. And the UR devices work fine here so I wonder what you did.
Best I've gotten is getting a remote live audio from UR22 where the remote artist can hear what signal is sent to the two channels I've VST Connections set to two of the inputs of the UR44. From the engineer side, can't hear anything and in the process of trying to determine paths, I can turn all mixer pots down and no connection to anything except for VST Connect Pro inserted on the channel where the UR44 inputs are set. I can even remove VST connect CUE mix and VST Connect Monitor (which in the template is not there anyway)
Your descriptions are somewhat unstructured, but it looks to me as if you have applied "Create VST Connect" from the VST Connect SE menu at some point and didn't clean it up afterwards ("Remove VST Connect"), which you should when you use the current PRO version. VST Connect Monitor is not part of the current VST Connect PRO version, it resides in the Control Room and if you want to use the PRO version, until the new version is out, you use the old "To Performer" routing way. So: remove the VST Connect Cuemix channel and the VST Connect Monitor plugin from the Control room and make sure routing is as described. Does that help? It may also be a good idea for now to disable the Control Room altogether unless you have used it before and know somewhat how it works.
And if a HD recording is being saved on the remote artist side... what resolution of the signal are they getting from the engineer in this "HD recording"?
"They" (?) don't get HD from the engineer, the engineer gets HD from the Performer. The Performers' signal is recorded as a raw wave file on the Performers' computer. The resolution (16 or 24 bits) is set in the VST Connect Performer configuration.
It would be cool if you could reduce reports to a meaningful and structured decription that can be followed by somebody trying to help but having no access to your screen and/or project. You can send me your project so I can look at it but note that Control Room ("Studio") connections are local to the computer and thus not saved with the project. For now, make sure no VST Connect components are in the Control Room.
Hope that helps nevertheless.
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Re: VST Connect - Draw me a path/map of connections

Post by musicullum » Sat Feb 14, 2015 6:39 pm

I forgot to add: the way the Performers' signal to your ears takes is to have a "Performer Monitor" Audio Track that has its input set to the Input channel with the VST Connect plugin ("TB/Performer"), output to your master out wherever your speakers/headphones are connected, and don't forget to enable said Audio Tracks input monitor speaker icon switch. Then you should hear the Performer.
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Re: VST Connect - Draw me a path/map of connections

Post by 3seas » Sun Feb 15, 2015 6:39 am

musicullum wrote:In short: loosing text when posting here in forum: been there. It's how the browser works, I learned to select all/copy each time before any action that switches pages.
to clarify, create a group track, delete it and in the inspector, pick any track and change its out to the track you deleted
That's simply not possible and I just don't get you. How can you set a tracks' output to a group channel that doesn't exist anymore? I can't.
For fun create another group track by the same name and delete it too. Now see in teh list to group track by the same name. Its not supposed to be in the list, its been deleted, so why is it in the list?
I already asked what list you refer to. And again when I delete a group track I can't access it anywhere at all - which makes sense.
Exactly! However here's proof......
false groups.png
deleted groups still showing up and selectable
(187.01 KiB) Not downloaded yet
With this shown, and I do believe it is somehow related to VST Connect Pro. I tried it once without those (VST C.Pro) inserted and IIRC the groups were correctly gone from the list.
The requesters becoming inaccessible
I again don't know what you mean, and it looks to me as if this has nothing to do with VST Connect specifically. If you refer to message boxes, they are beeing provided by the operating system and yes, are supposed to appear in the center of the screen and that's what they do on my system all the time.
Perhaps its Windows OS 7 however. I don'tr have this problem with any other program.
.....adding the Input, Group Channel, and audio channels , and apply routing as described is sufficient, and with the new PRO version you can apply "Create VST Connect" also in existing projects.
noted!

Now that I have been playing around with Cubase 7.5 and VST Connect Pro...... Yeah, Cubase 8 and VST Connect Pro do not play very well together, in fact they hardly play together at all. Given the deleted group issue above does raise the question as to what C8 & VSTCp are doing in signal routing that hoses connections settings, signal paths.

Now I know the only audio recorded on the remote device is the talent on that end, regardless of what signal they are hearing from the engineer. Remote only hearing click track unless talkback is selected in VSTCP. C8 & VSTCP doesn't work well enough for me to have learned that, in actually being able to do it. In C8 & VSTCP, VST Connections I could not set the Studio cue and monitor outs to anything that would work. In C7.5 & VSTCP no problem. I did notice in C7.5 & VSTCP the transport on/off switch for the click does not work, though tempo setting do.

VST connect sample rate limitations
The only limitation is that the Performers' hardware needs to be such that its sample rate can be changed by the application. I know only very few devices that refuse to apply such a rate change request. And the UR devices work fine here so I wonder what you did.
Good to know.
Best I've gotten is getting a remote live audio from UR22 where the remote artist can hear what signal is sent to the two channels I've VST Connections set to two of the inputs of the UR44. From the engineer side, can't hear anything and in the process of trying to determine paths, I can turn all mixer pots down and no connection to anything except for VST Connect Pro inserted on the channel where the UR44 inputs are set. I can even remove VST connect CUE mix and VST Connect Monitor (which in the template is not there anyway)
Your descriptions are somewhat unstructured, but it looks to me as if you have applied "Create VST Connect" from the VST Connect SE menu at some point and didn't clean it up afterwards .....
Clean up? I understand what you are saying but I do recall, the initial problem I had with C8 and VSTCP was an information box telling me I can't run two VST Connections or such. First run of the combo C8 & VSTCP, Little did I know I was supposed to clean up after.... who?

But Yeah, that may very well be the problem. I won't know till I dig back into that.
("Remove VST Connect"), which you should when you use the current PRO version. VST Connect Monitor is not part of the current VST Connect PRO version, it resides in the Control Room and if you want to use the PRO version, until the new version is out, you use the old "To Performer" routing way. So: remove the VST Connect Cuemix channel and the VST Connect Monitor plugin from the Control room and make sure routing is as described. Does that help? It may also be a good idea for now to disable the Control Room altogether unless you have used it before and know somewhat how it works.
good to know.
And if a HD recording is being saved on the remote artist side... what resolution of the signal are they getting from the engineer in this "HD recording"?
"They" (?) don't get HD from the engineer, the engineer gets HD from the Performer. The Performers' signal is recorded as a raw wave file on the Performers' computer. The resolution (16 or 24 bits) is set in the VST Connect Performer configuration.
The above..... I was responding to your post, as I was reading it the first time through. As I now "know" by having done this with c7.5&VSTCP the additional details is helpful. Thanks.
It would be cool if you could reduce reports to a meaningful and structured decription that can be followed by somebody trying to help but having no access to your screen and/or project. You can send me your project so I can look at it but note that Control Room ("Studio") connections are local to the computer and thus not saved with the project. For now, make sure no VST Connect components are in the Control Room.
Hope that helps nevertheless.
musicullum, you're not the first regarding my written communications. Way back when Amiga 1000 .... I ran my written communications through a text analysis program by AT&T (before it stood for Absent Tec and Training) and it rated to be of one with multiple degrees. So either I'm more intelligent than I learned in school or just dumb luck. Either way I do know how to map it. 8-) http://abstractionphysics.net

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Re: VST Connect - Draw me a path/map of connections

Post by 3seas » Sun Feb 15, 2015 6:59 pm

.......For the current one [VST Connect pro 2.0], the signal flow is:

- menu Devices/VST Connections: Stereo Input channel "Performer/TB", ports connected to your mic (Talkback)
I connect Stereo Input Channel -> Performer/TB <- to? "Talkback", Leave "not connected"? or something else?
In VST Connection/Studio, "Talkback" is set to a mono UR44 input channel #5.
Or is this a different "Talkback" you are referring to?
I can only set UR44-#5 input to one or the other, not both

I've been connecting Performer/TB to audio input lines from the UR44 1,2,3,4, whatever two at a time as Performer/TB is stereo.
The "To Performer" group doesn't seem to be working. The only way I can get an audio signal to the performer is by setting Performer/TB input channels.

I cannot hear the performer, no matter what I try setting. I can see the performer signal coming in but I cannot access it via UR44 headphones, regardless of which UR44 mix, 1. 2. fx.

Even in Cubase 7.5 I can create fake groups when VST is inserted ...... An indication of failed signal paths? re: "To performer" group fails..

- mixer: VST Connect PRO plugin inserted in said Input Channel "Performer/TB"
check
To make it clear: this channel serves two functions: it sends your mic signal to the Performer and receives the Performers' signal. So when you record from this Input channel, you don't get your mic signal as you would without the plugin, but the Performers' signal instead. It's as if the Performers' mic was connected in the VST Connections instead of your TB mic.
TB mic? is that the one on UR44-#5 or where I have Performer/TB set to two of the UR44 inputs 1.2.3.4
- arrangement: audio track "Performer Rec" with Input "Performer/TB" to record the Performer. Set to record, no monitoring
- arrangement:audio track "Performer Mon" with Input "Performer/TB" to hear the Performer. Set to monitoring, no record enable
I can see the Performers signal coming in and I can record it (hear it in playback, but I cannot hear it otherwise.)
- arrangement/mixer: add Group channel "To Performer", lower its volume to zero, insert VST Connect Cuemix plugin. This sends whatever enters that Group channel to the Performer. Use sends in playback etc channels to send to this channel.
This does not work. I have no indication anything going into or out of that group

Maybe its a fake group??? But I didn't delete it to make it a fake group.

Yes "To Performer" has the VST Connection cue mix plugin.
Yes verifiable audio signals are set to "send" to the group.

Two Issues:
1) Unable to hear the performers signal prior to playback of recording
2) "To performer" group fails (additional group delete symptom)

these suggest C7.5-C8 with VSTCP have routing issues, but what part might the UR44 be in these fails, if at all?
VST Connections/Studio/Talkback doesn't seem to work either, in having a mic connected to the input of the UR44 set to ...Studio/Talkback.

VST Connect Pro being inserted is the determining factor regarding deleted group tracks still showing on list. VST Connect SE does not do this. The deleted group track vanish from the list when VST Connect Pro is un-inserted.

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Re: VST Connect - Draw me a path/map of connections

Post by musicullum » Fri Feb 20, 2015 6:25 pm

I try to shorten this :-)

First, you keep confusing the Control Room and its Talkback and the "old" template version you have to use for now (for just a few days actually, then the new version is finally ready). I explained this several times!
Do not use the Control Room before the new version is out. Do not, ok? Disable the Control Room or at least make sure that nothing is getting in the way there. I told you before, just listen. Forget entirely about the Talkback in the Control Room (menu Devices/VST Connections/Studio), just don't, ok?

Seondly, you are right about the Groups keep appearing in the bus lists even when they were deleted. This is fixed with the new version too, and you entirely got me on this one because we're testing the new version which doesn't expose this bug anymore. So I totally apologize! For now, just don't reference those "ghost groups".

Thirdly, now that the Control Room is out of the picture, the signals flow like this:
you (studio) have some microphone attached to your UR, right? I read UR44 input channel #5. This is what the performer should hear, right? So in menu Devices/VST Connecteions/Inputs, you created an Input channel "TB/Performer", right? So then, why not select the hardware input where your mic is connected as the input port for the "TB/Performer" Input channel, simple as that. As you have only one, set the left input port (or both) to UR44 input channel #5.
Now your mic signal comes into the VST Connect PRO plugin. Great, because now the plug can send your TB signal to the Performer. Does he hear you? He should.
Then, in return, the VST Connect plugin receives the Performer signal in the "TB/Performer" Input channel. I guess this is where you "see it". As with every Input channel, in order to actually hear it, you have to have an audio track (in our template that is "Performer Monitor"), and that channels' input must be the "TB/Performer" input and - wait for it - you must enable that channels' monitoring with the yellow speaker icon activated. Did you? And of course that audio track must be routed to your master output channel where you hear things. ok? Do you hear the Performer? You should, and you should know how to make an Input channels' signal audible when recording anything with Cubase.
This is why you have 2 audio tracks: Performer Record where you record and have monitoring off, and Performer Monitor to hear him with monitoring enabled. If you would send the monitored signal back to the Performer he'd hear it with a delay, that's why there are two audio tracks, one for recording, one for chatting. Note that all of this is simplified with the new version.

your mic->TB/Performer->VST Connect plugin->mix with "To Performer" cuemix plug->send to Performer
Performer sends->VST Connect plugin->Performer Mon audio track with monitor enabled->your speaker.

Hope that helps, but read it slowly, one by one and don't skip any :-)
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Re: VST Connect - Draw me a path/map of connections

Post by 3seas » Sun Feb 22, 2015 3:16 am

Does not work. Perhaps the yet to be released version will.

theory of operation

Studio shares a channel with the remote performer "TB/Performer" and a one way track/channel Studio->Performer "to performer".

channels that follows these rules:
#1) When recording the remote performer, the Studio audio on "TB/Performer" is shut off but receives the audio from the remote performer only.

#2) When the Online Interface VST Connect switch for "talkback" is on the remote/performer and studio can converse on the same "TB/Performer" channel. Recording shuts this off

#3) The online interface rehearsal switch allows #2 and the Studio to send (audio/midi) the performer shall work with on a separate track/channel "To Performer".

#4) The audio passing both ways need not be High Definition, instead a HD Audio is saved on the performers remote computer during record and later transferred as an audio file that contains sync information so to automatically sync to the studio relevant "work". Pre-matching sample rates studio/performer is relevant.

#5) Playback, though a HD audio file is created on the performers remote system for later transfer, recording of the performer still happens at the studio allowing playback review of the performer performance with studio control over what, if any, is included in the playback review mix.

#6) The studio has control over what "work" the remote/performer receives for performing with and review. on the "to performer" track/channel. This requires a group track. a common place for what all may be sent "To Performer". Thus allowing the studio to customize for each remote performer, what the performer has to work with.

#7) Multi-Track capable.

Theory.......

What limitations happen when the group track "to performer" fails to work?

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Re: VST Connect - Draw me a path/map of connections

Post by musicullum » Mon Feb 23, 2015 3:49 pm

3seas wrote:Does not work. Perhaps the yet to be released version will.

theory of operation

Studio shares a channel with the remote performer "TB/Performer" and a one way track/channel Studio->Performer "to performer".
Sort of "shares", yes. TB/Performer Input ("Studio", your TB mic) goes to Performer (mixed with "To Performer" cue), and in return provides Performer signal, replacing the input (TB mic) signal.
3seas wrote:channels that follows these rules:
#1) When recording the remote performer, the Studio audio on "TB/Performer" is shut off but receives the audio from the remote performer only.
Yes. "Studio audio" (your TB mic) is shut off during playback/recording so not to confuse the Performer for instance by delayed Studio speaker signal entering the TB mic. One can override at any time by re-engaging TB switch or use rehearsal switch.
3seas wrote:#2) When the Online Interface VST Connect switch for "talkback" is on the remote/performer and studio can converse on the same "TB/Performer" channel. Recording shuts this off

#3) The online interface rehearsal switch allows #2 and the Studio to send (audio/midi) the performer shall work with on a separate track/channel "To Performer".

I don't know if I got this right. Anyway, at any time the "To Performer" signal (VST Connect Cuemix plugin input) is sent to the Performer. If for whatever reason the TB switch is engaged, your mic is mixed with the "To Performer" signal and passed to the Performer. Simple as that.
Also you should mention another audio channel with the TB/Performer Input and monitoring engaged so you can hear performers' signal in the studio (which appears to be your problem?)
3seas wrote:#4) The audio passing both ways need not be High Definition, instead a HD Audio is saved on the performers remote computer during record and later transferred as an audio file that contains sync information so to automatically sync to the studio relevant "work".
Correct. What is recorded in realtime is usually compressed audio, unless you set Performer upstream to "Lossless" (PRO version only). In any case a stereo signal is recorded, but multitrack can be recorded on Performer end and later be transfered, automatically creating seperate tracks for each HD channel in Cubase/Nuendo.
3seas wrote:Pre-matching sample rates studio/performer is relevant.
No, this is done automatically except for very few devices on the Performer side that prohibit to set sample rate programatically.
3seas wrote:#5) Playback, though a HD audio file is created on the performers remote system for later transfer, recording of the performer still happens at the studio allowing playback review of the performer performance with studio control over what, if any, is included in the playback review mix.
Correct.
3seas wrote:#6) The studio has control over what "work" the remote/performer receives for performing with and review. on the "to performer" track/channel. This requires a group track. a common place for what all may be sent "To Performer". Thus allowing the studio to customize for each remote performer, what the performer has to work with.
Correct.
3seas wrote:#7) Multi-Track capable.
Correct.
3seas wrote:Theory.......
Not only theory. This is everyday practice for a lot of PRO users as we can observe on the servers.
3seas wrote:What limitations happen when the group track "to performer" fails to work?
I don't understand that question. What happens if anything fails to work? What happens when your Master channel fails to work? You don't hear a thing :-) Seriously, when the "To Performer" channel fails to work (whatever that means), the Performer will probably not hear what is sent to that channel.
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Re: VST Connect - Draw me a path/map of connections

Post by 3seas » Tue Feb 24, 2015 2:12 am

VST Connect Cue Mix plugin"

Is it the same plugin in both VST Connect SE & VST Connect Pro? I've tried removing and re-installing Pro.

The VST Connect Cue Mix plugin is not working on my system.
Plugging it in results in the monitoring of the group track "to performer" to null. (or any group track its inserted to.)
Remote hears nothing from it nor does the studio. Its not about turning monitoring on....Or maybe the icon has become disconnected from its source code and doesn't really turn on.... :shock:

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Re: VST Connect - Draw me a path/map of connections

Post by musicullum » Tue Feb 24, 2015 11:29 am

3seas wrote:VST Connect Cue Mix plugin"

Is it the same plugin in both VST Connect SE & VST Connect Pro?
Yes. But you should make sure not to use an older version.
3seas wrote:I've tried removing and re-installing Pro.

The VST Connect Cue Mix plugin is not working on my system.
Plugging it in results in the monitoring of the group track "to performer" to null. (or any group track its inserted to.)
Remote hears nothing from it nor does the studio. Its not about turning monitoring on....Or maybe the icon has become disconnected from its source code and doesn't really turn on.... :shock:
I can insert the VST Connect cuemix plugin into any Group Channel and it will not defeat the output of that Group (or audio or fx) channel, connected or not. And it has nothing to do with the Monitoring of the Performer which you appearently still haven't figured out - you must create a dedicated Audio Track with monitoring enabled (yellow speaker icon on the track). I guess I pointed that out at least 3 times now but you never even mention it. Maybe you should make yourself familiar with some routing basics, or just use the template, or wait for the new version for a one click solution.
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Re: VST Connect - Draw me a path/map of connections

Post by 3seas » Tue Feb 24, 2015 2:15 pm

So how do I make sure I'm not using an older version (VST Connect Cue Mix Plugin)?

The template download under VST connect Pro "Cubase 7 Project Template for VST Connect Pro" is the wrong one?

What track name in the downloadable template is this Dedicated Audio Track you are referring to?
So I can make sure its in the template I downloaded and have been using in effort to get this to work.

At some point the "user error" application has to come to an end.

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Re: VST Connect - Draw me a path/map of connections

Post by musicullum » Tue Feb 24, 2015 2:36 pm

3seas wrote:So how do I make sure I'm not using an older version (VST Connect Cue Mix Plugin)?

The template download under VST connect Pro "Cubase 7 Project Template for VST Connect Pro" is the wrong one?
No, it's just fine.
3seas wrote:What track name in the downloadable template is this Dedicated Audio Track you are referring to?
It's labeled "Performer MON". In the Performer MON track/channel activate the white/yellow speaker icon. Make sure that in Preferences, in the "VST" section, "Auto Monitoring" is set to "Manual", all of which is described in the VST Connect manual.
3seas wrote:So I can make sure its in the template I downloaded and have been using in effort to get this to work.

At some point the "user error" application has to come to an end.
You lost me again. What is a "user error application"? Funny idea though :-)
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Re: VST Connect - Draw me a path/map of connections

Post by 3seas » Tue Feb 24, 2015 3:10 pm

Musicullum,

You mentioned server (used for VST connect and assumed to be Steinberg owned) There is a VST connect notice that shows up about how unknown others can possible access what is being worked on and IIRC there is an encryption setting in VST Pro. But I always wondered about encryption, how does the other get the decryption code...... Snail mail? Point is, nothing is secure if made accessible via the internet, encryption or not. reason for using VST Connect in limited ways.

But does VST Connect hit the Steinberg servers if connected via LAN? And cannot the servers filter content? like what is sent on the "To performer" track (VST Cue Mix Plugin) that the performer woudl not hear it.

Seeing traffic/activity over a server is different than knowing what the content of the traffic is... Maybe a lot are just trying to use it and not saying anything?

On a side note, using the MP3 licensed plugin (or whatever its called) I have work that shows cover art that is not mine and I can't get rid of or change it. I'm neither that skin color or female.... It makes it look like I'm claiming someone elses work...which is in actuality.... my work.

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Re: VST Connect - Draw me a path/map of connections

Post by musicullum » Tue Feb 24, 2015 3:52 pm

Quick reply: data on a peer-to-peer connection are transmitted - well, peer to peer, usually no server is interacting. The server handles the connection business prior to a p2p connection, providing the key number and infos for both sides to be able to connect. Wit LAN, there is no server invoked at all.
Encryption is managed in a way we don't expose...
As for the mp3 issue pls. move to another thread.
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Re: VST Connect - Draw me a path/map of connections

Post by 3seas » Wed Feb 25, 2015 4:41 am

The template file settings image
note: VST connections - Outputs, Group/fx & Studio are image pasted on, and of the template setup.
Cubase 8 pro & VST Connections Pro 2.0.0...
template cb8--.PNG
Template file image, Outputs, Groups/FX, Studio settings image are pasted on.
(267.41 KiB) Not downloaded yet
Of course this is prior to adding in inputs, audio tracks, to feed "to performer" etc..

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Re: VST Connect - Draw me a path/map of connections

Post by 3seas » Wed Feb 25, 2015 7:13 am

odd.PNG
odd results
(1.17 MiB) Not downloaded yet
Audio tracks added
Performer/remote cannot hear the PSR-S750 audio but can hear HALion Sonic SE (which is being controlled by the midi out of the PSR-S750.) Studio can hear the PSR-S750 Audio but Not the HALion Sonic SE.
Studio cannot hear Performer but can record Performer and hear it when it's played back.

The "user error application" is the application of claiming user error instead of ......

I do realize the result I mention here are a bit different than as I said before, though still a fail exist, but its the results I got this time. What I know I can reproduce is the direct audio into to the TB/performer channel, the rest... shrug.. i.e. I do recall once removing and re-inserting the VST Cue mix plugin to get something different than before I removed it (something stopped working).

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Re: VST Connect - Draw me a path/map of connections

Post by 3seas » Wed Mar 04, 2015 2:07 pm

Inaccessible information and requester are now fixed..... I can't even go through windows to get access to them anymore. Only option is to shut the program down. As I said before, none of my other programs do this inaccessible handicap trick.
Not good, not productive. No excuses!

one way of testing this is to turn the monitor off, wait a moment and turn it back on, and then cause an information or requester to pop up. This does cause other programs to put their requester and dialog boxes to center screen and that is ok but VST COnnect/Cubase puts them mostly hidden and inaccessible to the upper left of the screen. How is this VST Connect issue? They are VST connect information and requester boxes,

And when I select mirror video at the studio end I expect both studio and remote ends of studio video to be mirrored not just the remote end (this being something with low proprity in correcting, I sure)

Haven't yet had the time to see if I can get VST Connect 3 Pro to work given the changes and my current lack of time to give it..

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Re: VST Connect - Draw me a path/map of connections

Post by musicullum » Wed Mar 04, 2015 6:43 pm

3seas wrote:The template file settings image
note: VST connections - Outputs, Group/fx & Studio are image pasted on, and of the template setup.
Cubase 8 pro & VST Connections Pro 2.0.0...
template cb8--.PNG
Of course this is prior to adding in inputs, audio tracks, to feed "to performer" etc..
On top of this elaborated odyssey you say that your TB mic is connected to UR44 Input 5.
In your picture the TB/Performer Input bus is still connected to UR44 1+2 despite I explained in several different ways that it's wrong, because that is what is sent to the Performer along with the cuemix, so it comes to no surprise that he still doesn't hear you :roll: .
Take a deep breath and a new shot, start with an empty project and use "Create VST Connect" in the new version 3.
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Re: VST Connect - Draw me a path/map of connections

Post by 3seas » Fri Mar 06, 2015 6:52 am

musicullum,

TB/Performer being directly connected to hardware input of the UR44 was never an issue. Its was the group channel failing, A mic to UR44 input 5 for talkback was weak but on the UR44 input 5 & 6 are instrument inputs. So I switched them to the PSR-S750. Up until now I never made use of input 5&6.

As I now have VST Connect Pro 3 installed and I'm not going to revert back to a version that does not work on my system.
Having never had experienced a working version and the software being new to me, well.... trying to learn from something broken is not going to teach me much.

Still haven't had the time, energy and focus to fully explore version 3, But what I can do seems to be fitting the theory of operation. A VST connect Pro group channel is created but as far as I can tell, there is nothing special about it, its just a standard group channel and nothing mentioned about it in the VST Connect Pro 3 guide.

Whether or not it is working as intended, for that I'd need to know the programmers mindset as relevant to the program. There are quite a few variable in setup. There is nobody else sitting at my system with knowledge of how its is intended to work. Written language can get lost in translation, setup pictures work better in communication.

The project/VST Pro/"Create VST Connect" does not setup a full connect. so I have to teach myself functionality of Cubase I have not used before,. Like AutoCAD, you use a reduced tool set oriented towards your goals, ability and available resources.

Now that I have something that works better...

I think I was wrong about Halicon Sonic SE reaching the performer in ver 2. I think it was just midi. Good to "know/experience" midi transfer.

As a basic signal transfer experience with ver 3. It seems I can establish two way communication in the modes expected. Again, currently lacking energy/time to focus on it right now. That's the frustrating part for me, when I can find the time to focus on cubase, I find myself not being as creatively productive due As I intend to ....so it slow moving forward.

There is written language..... lost in translation. regarding Cubase documentation.

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