Is Cubase Popularity Dropping?

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Dafunque
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Is Cubase Popularity Dropping?

Post by Dafunque » Sun Aug 30, 2015 1:53 pm

Dear Steinberg,

I've been teaching Cubase to students of the Conservatorium Haarlem and my own studio in
The Netherlands for the past 7 years.
What i've noticed is that the knowledge about the existence and usability of
Cubase has dropped dramatically. Even to the point where the Cubase classes
i teach have been stripped from the curriculum at the Conservatorium Haarlem.

I teach a younger generation and they all think Cubase is some kind of
old school, PC only, clumsy, out-dated, program that was popular in the 90's
of the last century.

After I'm done teaching, the students are usually in awe of the program,
as they should have been from the start.

I'm no marketing expert but i do know that Cubase is suffering from an image problem.
I also know that companies with products like Live, Logic and even Reason do
not have this problem.

At the moment Cubase is the ugly girl with the great personality. She only shines when
given a chance, but that never happens because people always choose the pretty girls.

Many of you may remember a video format called Betamax. This video format was
quite superior to VHS, it's big competitor. But VHS was much cheaper and its results
were adequate for most people. Betamax phased out of existence and VHS became the
standard. Cubase is Betamax and Logic is VHS.

I tell my students that Cubase has managed to, feature- and quality-wise, become
as flexible as Ableton Live, as easy to use as Logic, and as sturdy and high quality as Pro-Tools.
(This should be your slogan!!)

As far as i can tell Logic has become the standard among, dance producers in particular, in The Netherlands.
It is followed or even tied with Ableton Live and I seldom meet people that use cubase.

Coincidentally I met someone who had just switched from Logic for the purpose of making Game Music.
He was disappointed there is no cross-grade available from other programs than Pro-Tools.
He is also disappointed about not being able to cross-grade from Cubase to Nuendo (for its built in game engine)

I hope Yamaha and Steinberg have enough sense of reality and are not too proud or convinced of their own
supremacy to try and change the perception of Cubase with the greater public.

Steinberg's Cubase Pro 8 is by far the superior program of all and people should know this!

I write this not only because I love Cubase and have been using it on my Mac systems since version 1.0 back in 1989.
My livelihood a a teacher is in danger because Cubase seems to be losing it's footing (in The Netherlands).

I hope this email helps to reestablish Cubase Pro 8 as market leader once again.

More than happy to help!


Best Regards,

Jord Ouwehand
Last edited by Dafunque on Tue Sep 01, 2015 8:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cubase Popularity Dropping Dramatically

Post by NorthWood MediaWorks » Mon Aug 31, 2015 8:40 pm

Sad to hear this, makes me wonder how the market share is actually looking. Then again, its not to late to turn things around, hopefully their marketing department takes heed. Especially for your sake. :shock:

I can see how this would affect your particular livelihood, however, as a tool set, for most, it will go on for years to come.

Good luck, hope it bounces back for you.

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Re: Cubase Popularity Dropping Dramatically

Post by AFK as Bandersnatch » Mon Aug 31, 2015 9:39 pm

I don't know about the statistics on number of Cubase users but I never got my now 19 year old son to use Cubase as his first choice. Some years ago we bought him a user interface that came with Cubase LE. The registration process was so frustrating (he never got it running) that he looked at other programs and never went back. I still use Cubase not only because it's a great application but also because I don't want to spend time learning other programs. DAW s is a mature very competitive business. I am surprise there is still so many programs that have survived this far.

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Re: Cubase Popularity Dropping Dramatically

Post by Stephen57 » Tue Sep 01, 2015 1:25 am

Hi,

Interesting post. I have to say, however, that if you want to help Cubase, posting something with the title "Cubase popularity dropping dramatically" makes it sound like you know the program is not doing as well as Abelton Live or Logic. I don't know if it is or is not, but someone considering purchasing a Cubase license might see this post or maybe read the topic only and decide against looking further into the program, let alone becoming a licensed user. You could phrase the topic as a question, "Is Cubase Popularity Dropping?"

I purchased Cubase Pro 8 because it includes an impressive feature set along with an attractive instrument/effects package. It's a mature program, now together with Yamaha (a plus for me, love their gear and technology). Anyway, Betamax may have been the failure in the consumer market, but in professional video production BetaCam SP ruled the world for decades and looked great. Cubase Pro 8 is the Red Camera of today. :-) Pros use it, kids want candy (Abelton)
-------------------------------------------------------
DAW: Cubase Pro 10 (Main), Cubase Pro 9.5 (Backup); PC: HP Z230, i5 CPU quad-core 3.5 Ghz, 16 Gigs RAM; OS: Win 7 Pro 64-bit; Audio Converters, Scarlett 2I4, Zoom UCR-8; USB MIDI Controller, Akai Advance 49. VST-Is: Spectrasonics Omnisphere 2.5, Stylus RMX; Air Music: Hybrid, Transfuser 2, Vacuum Pro, Velvet, Xpand2; Novation: Bass Station; Sonovox Grand Piano; Rack: Proteus 2000, Korg 03R/W, Yamaha TG 33. Monitoring with KRK Rokit 8/G3, Tannoy PBM 6.5 II, Mics. Scheops, Sennheiser, Rode, Lectrosonics RF, etc.

Help with Cubase:
Documentation: https://steinberg.help/
Location/file paths of presets in Cubase and Nuendo: https://helpcenter.steinberg.de/hc/en-u ... nd-Nuendo-
Preferences: https://helpcenter.steinberg.de/hc/en-u ... and-Nuendo

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Re: Cubase Popularity Dropping Dramatically

Post by alexis » Tue Sep 01, 2015 4:07 am

Stephen57 wrote: ... Pros use it, kids want candy (Abelton)
If you are right, then there's a reasonable argument that so is the OP.

I'm not changing from Cubase, mainly because it would take me far too long to become as facile with another sequencer, and I'd be afraid that after all that, I'd find I'd be lacking something or other I really depends on in Cubase.

But if the kids aren't choosing Cubase now, how likely is it they will use it later?

Of course, whether the OP's experience is universal, none of us know. I hope not!
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Re: Cubase Popularity Dropping Dramatically

Post by NorthWood MediaWorks » Tue Sep 01, 2015 5:37 am

Nothing wrong with multipe tools in the toolbox either. It's all about time, and what you can spend it on.

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Re: Is Cubase Popularity Dropping?

Post by Dafunque » Tue Sep 01, 2015 8:18 am

Thanks for joining in the discussion guys! And Steven57, good point about the title of the post.

This trend, if it exists at all, is really worrying me. Not only because I might loose a source of income but also because a program this awesome simply needs to be on top.

Does anyone have suggestions on how Steinberg could go about that? Is it just marketing? Even more/ better features? Or should the cosmetics of Cubase change to a more playful look? The older built in synths are really ugly!

One feature request I have is being able to import color scheme-presets. It may sound stupid but I find, when the look and atmosphere of the program changes it really inspires me. It feels like new and fresh.

Also cross-grade options from other DAW's should be possible.

Keep replying folks! Hopefully someone from Steinberg will chip in and shed some light on Steinberg's opinion on the matter.

Cheers!
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Re: Is Cubase Popularity Dropping?

Post by Niles » Tue Sep 01, 2015 10:42 am

Dafunque wrote:I teach a younger generation and they all think Cubase is some kind of
old school, PC only, clumsy, out-dated, program that was popular in the 90's
of the last century.
As much as I like Cubase for its in depth features, I can't really blame them. The mixer and windows management looks and feels like it's straight from the 90's and the (on the fly) integration for controlling VST's with any external controller feels like it's from the 90's too (clumsy to not even possible).
For me those points where the reason as a Cubase veteran to peek over the fence, so I can imagine potential user would skip it for that too.

Marketing is a short term solution to quickly draw attention.
Long term solutions are offered by smart engineering, customer relations and above all, focusing on your own product's strength (the reason why existing users picked the product in the first place). Happy customers draw customers!

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Re: Is Cubase Popularity Dropping?

Post by roel » Tue Sep 01, 2015 12:29 pm

Popularity is imo related to availability on the darknet and thus availability to the masses who can't pay for licenses.
SB has been battling this for a while now, and most of the things you could find available are years old.
That's not the case with ableton and logic. What everybody knows, everybody wants, and even when people do not buy it directly, it creates name and fame.
Don't forget that most of those technoguys who are now doing very well all started with darknet software... They show what they use, and the cattle will follows.
Technically speaking no reason to do so, but it is fancy to know that producer A or B is using it too... it creates some form of bond. Ableton is focussed on loops too, so as long as the beat goes, it's likely it will stay that way.

Not so with logic. These are quite similar programs. Logic is solely Apple though. The software gets related to it's OS status as an A-brand. Reason to go for it ? Maybe not, but Apple is still hot, and cheaper...
+ If you see the recent update of logic where they add Camel Audio's Alchemy in to the native package... these things are really bad for BU for other brands. Alchemy did cost as much as logic's entire price, and is now a free add-on. This is quite a big attack in the branch imho, and if the rest does not respond, it seems that logic will be creating more fame for itself then ever before.

But on the other hand: how far can you go in devaluating the value of your products. A decent answer for SB for example would be to include the full Halion package in Cubase for the same price... that's value for money. (and is interesting for 3th party devs too). Not sure if they would even take such a thing in to account.

It's a very good post in my opninion. I would not like to see SB getting in to financiel trouble, but it's a hard world out there.
Good for us consumers though...

kind regards,
R.
Cubase 10.5, vienna ensemble pro 5,
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Re: Is Cubase Popularity Dropping?

Post by Niles » Tue Sep 01, 2015 12:57 pm

roel wrote:Don't forget that most of those technoguys who are now doing very well all started with darknet software...
I think you have a very valid point there!

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Re: Is Cubase Popularity Dropping?

Post by AP » Tue Sep 01, 2015 4:40 pm

I would do my research before posting such a topic. Believe it Cubase is on top now. Thanks to PC users. As per the latest 2014-2015 DAW Poll. Followed closely by Logic and all others. I would go as far as saying that Steinberg is schooling them if you look closely.

Cubase is an advanced music production tool / DAW. Great for real musician. If you're looking for loop based music production and have a Mac maybe Logic... With their massive 20 GB of sounds.

I think Cubase is a better choice for students / musicians, rock bands... Who are serious and are able to spend a few years learning how to produce at a Pro level...

It's all about how you present a DAW to a kid that has no idea what to use. It's all about the end result.
If a kid wants to produce hip hop, urban or electronic music and has little-no music skills. Logic might a better choice and Apple is working hard at marketing that.
Last edited by AP on Wed Sep 02, 2015 1:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is Cubase Popularity Dropping?

Post by Dafunque » Tue Sep 01, 2015 5:09 pm

AP wrote:I would do my research before posting such a topic.
I just did some basic research. And I mean really basic; I simply googled "Best DAW 2015"
Around 10 sites with charts/listings came up. Almost ALL put Ableton first, Bitwig is often 2nd and Cubase comes in third at only one of those sites. It usually dangles somewhere around 7th or 8th place.

Of course I don't know if those lists are just preferences of the author or wether those lists are based on feature sets or actual sales numbers.

It seems that we established that due to a steep learning curve on all DAW's, one tends to stick with what one knows. If this is true, then Cubase is in trouble. Also according to you AP.
AP wrote:If a kid wants to produce hip hop, urban or electronic music and has little-no music skills. Logic might a better choice
And once you're on Logic the chance of changing to another DAW is not huge, right?

Keep those responses coming!
This is getting really interesting.

Particularly the bit about the "Darknet". Not that i would consider a simple Torrent-site "The Darknet"... ;)
But the fact that crackable software becomes more popular the non-crackable software is interesting to say the least!
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Re: Is Cubase Popularity Dropping?

Post by AP » Tue Sep 01, 2015 5:52 pm

This poll is from Gearslutz by real DAW users and will close this year:

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-c ... 015-a.html
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Re: Is Cubase Popularity Dropping?

Post by Dafunque » Tue Sep 01, 2015 6:07 pm

AP wrote:This poll is from Gearslutz by real DAW users and will close this year:

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-c ... 015-a.html
Well, that is indeed the best score for Cubase so far. Unfortunately that list is made by Gearslutz
whom are passionate enough about their preferred DAW to participate in the poll.
So although it is a very positive outcome for Cubase it doesn't mean it's popularity isn't declining or gaining for that matter...

My question in the initial post is solely based on a gut feeling gotten from what i see happening around me.

Keep the replies coming!
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Re: Is Cubase Popularity Dropping?

Post by roel » Tue Sep 01, 2015 6:34 pm

Interesting indeed and it is an essential question too. Why does someone buy SB software and not something from a similar brand.
I also think both of you are right. On the one hand you got the (semi)-pro's. They are hopefully for SB a niche in their customer database. In fact most real pro's still go protools it seems, even with the recurrent fee. So why is the majority buying it ?

- They heard or have read about it, and they are convinced. (maybe some)
- they have seen it with a friend and want it too (maybe quite a few)
- they have heard some beloved artist talking about it (quite a lot i think)
- they have experienced it, and they say it is what they are going to use to do their thing with (probably most)
- and maybe, because they learned how to use it in some form of education (probably most for ((semi)-pro)

Access is key to get introduced. But i do not want to get banned, so i leave the way to completely open. :-)

It's a psychological question, and if OP says that his customer base, wich are pupils, do not know the software anymore, that is something to be aware of. He can do two things: be silent and learn another daw from the competition and adapt to the situation, or he can post his concerns with the intention to warn the company of his findings on the brands reputation. In fact this is very nice of him to take the time to do this, and we jump on it too, because probably most of us are defending the brand too since it makes actually excellent sofware. Nothing wrong whith the topic i seems to me.

kind regards,
R.
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Re: Is Cubase Popularity Dropping?

Post by Stephen57 » Wed Sep 02, 2015 4:39 am

We're #3 according to this "best-of" from Beat Report magazine. My only loyalty is to trying to make good music and the technology is a means to an end. I've played with Abelton a little and it is powerful. For live work, the loop-based and slot-based system is quite elegant. For the EDM people, it seems like Live and Logic are the first choice with BitWig getting some attention.

With Cubase Pro 8, I think the user is more involved with sound engineering and recording a la Pro Tools on a professional level. I'm only a few months into the program and still have so much to learn, but I've been sequencing and recording to DAWS since the days of Voyetra Sequencer+

The recent youtube videos showing producers and artists discussing and demonstrating Cubase in their studios are worth seeing.

Anyway, in terms of popularity, it seems the program is doing well. Artist development and user training are, of course, key to getting the product recognized and more widely known.

Here's how the article put it:
Reasons to use it [Cubase]
Given how long Cubase has been around, Steinberg has done a great job of improving it over the years. As a result, it is one of the stable applications out there. The VST compatibility and support is also second to none.

Reasons to avoid it
The workflow and interface can certainly be intimidating for first-time users. Additionally, its user base is much more limited, making it harder to find resources and community support. It can take a long time to achieve certain mundane tasks in Cubase than it would in other DAWs.
URL to full article --> https://news.beatport.com/whats-the-bes ... s-in-2015/

Interesting thread, good comments. :-)
-------------------------------------------------------
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Help with Cubase:
Documentation: https://steinberg.help/
Location/file paths of presets in Cubase and Nuendo: https://helpcenter.steinberg.de/hc/en-u ... nd-Nuendo-
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Re: Is Cubase Popularity Dropping?

Post by roel » Wed Sep 02, 2015 2:51 pm

It is quite difficult to find info on actual selling numbers and popularity, but a good indicator on the matter is google analytics.
Not that you make real judgements based on it since it is very much linked to the type of search term being used, but it are certainly indicators on popularity... number of searches in google. :-)
You'll need an account with google to view it.

http://www.google.com/trends?q=pro+tool ... all&sort=0

or

https://www.google.com/trends/explore#q ... tc%2FGMT-2

You can change the parameters and the search terms at the top of the page. For example when viewing "Nederland" you can see why OP is having a hard time...
Dutch people are Fruity Loopers and Reaper lovers.
Cubase 10.5, vienna ensemble pro 5,
Master:laptop Clevo, P771zm, i7 4790S, 16 gig, 2xSSD samsung 840pro/evo, 2x Samsung SSD850 +touch screen
Slave: none, will probably never be replaced because latest processors are powerfull enough
Sound: Motu Ultralite MKIII (usb), Focusrite 18i20, behringer 16 ch mixer
control: Synergy, novation zero SL
vsti: Steinberg, East West, Vienna, Native Instruments, Spectrasonics and a lot of others
hardware: S760, CD3000xl, SY77, studiologic 990, alesis Q88,

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Re: Is Cubase Popularity Dropping?

Post by mitchiemasha » Wed Sep 02, 2015 5:15 pm

Might have something to do with the majority of producers, mixers on youtube not using it. We get the likes of Pensado, plugging Waves and Protools (he's obviously on the pay role) so there's that market. Then all the EDM boys are in FL or Ableton.

Cubase really needs to spend more in the promotions and marketing department. Finding producers who have found some success and bribing them to do a videos on the tube.

All the new toys we see released never seem to have cubase running as the linked DAW. This is very bad for them! VERY!!!
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Re: Is Cubase Popularity Dropping?

Post by vespesian » Thu Sep 03, 2015 2:13 am

mitchiemasha wrote:Might have something to do with the majority of producers, mixers on youtube not using it. We get the likes of Pensado, plugging Waves and Protools (he's obviously on the pay role) so there's that market. Then all the EDM boys are in FL or Ableton.

Cubase really needs to spend more in the promotions and marketing department. Finding producers who have found some success and bribing them to do a videos on the tube.

All the new toys we see released never seem to have cubase running as the linked DAW. This is very bad for them! VERY!!!

Have you seen the Future Music Steinberg Studio Sessions on Youtube? Some of them are quite good.

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Re: Is Cubase Popularity Dropping?

Post by Whirly » Thu Sep 03, 2015 7:24 am

If Cubase popularity is dropping, it could be because other DAWs (referred to as candy) are actually seriously good. ;)
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Re: Is Cubase Popularity Dropping?

Post by mitchiemasha » Thu Sep 03, 2015 7:24 pm

vespesian wrote:
Have you seen the Future Music Steinberg Studio Sessions on Youtube? Some of them are quite good.
Yeah I've watched some of those.
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Re: Is Cubase Popularity Dropping?

Post by Dafunque » Thu Sep 03, 2015 7:32 pm

Sure there is a lot of cool material out there (and some terrible!).
And sure the guy with the grey beard is cool, in a Gandalf kind of way, but the problem of Cubase not being cool enough to attract younger users remains.

Any other suggestions?

This turns out to be a great topic! Thanks for participating.
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Re: Is Cubase Popularity Dropping?

Post by greggybud » Fri Sep 04, 2015 4:41 am

I wonder about the midi aspect. Cubase from the beginning has ruled. But in the 90's Acid got huge. What happened to Acid? Early 2000's I was lectured I should stay in the sample editing realm and ditch the Cubase drum editor because "nobody uses that anymore." Even today, Dr. Luke to my knowledge stays in the sample realm and does little if anything midi. Do new users care or want to learn midi?

IMO a lot of this "popularity" is new users entering a greatly expanding DAW market. Maybe immature, inexperienced, and always the need to be cool, demanding instant gratification of Youtube videos instead of reading that huge Cubase manual. Which DAW makes it the easiest to learn?

I see similarities with NI. NI isn't very innovative anymore. With mind-blowing Reaktor, Kontakt as the player, Absynth & Massive as just...huge, and Kore to control, morph, and classify any VST, NI was a innovation leader. But I guess they didn't make much money? They abandoned Kore, ignored Reaktor, and dummied up a lame Battery 4 with a cool GUI. They took Kore concepts and struck gold with Maschine, all those Maschine expansion packs, Maschine Studio, and most recently Komplete Kontrol. NI marketing today is targeting a much wider market than in the past. I think Cubase is having to target a wider DAW market by releasing "cool" features and seduce hipsters while core functions and workflow, stuff experienced users value...suffer. Do professionals want another feature or do they want something so simple like...mix undo? I guess mix undo doesn't sell copies of Cubase, but LoopMash does? Professional users are at the mercy of a prosumer market.

I think Cubase needs to target the professional user instead of trying to be all things to all users. Adding the word "pro" is a good start. As time progresses the DAW market will become even more segmented. I would gladly pay double or even triple the money for a DAW that is focused on core functions and workflow with fewer bugs. I hope someday there will be a market for a professional DAW such as this. Something to progress to when the kid's ask about Zimmer and value workflow, discover midi, and understand how feature-rich Cubase really is.

Who cares if it's the most popular?
Windows 10 64bit, Wavelab 9.5, latest Cubase version, 64 gig all drives SSD,s (Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1050ti driving 2 34" LG ultra wides and 1 28" all @2560x1080) iCon QconPro, Metagrid, 4 MidiTimePiece's = 32in/outs,, UAD-2, NI, Waves, Arturia, and lots of hardware synthesizers most of them controlled by MidiQuest 11.

roel
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Re: Is Cubase Popularity Dropping?

Post by roel » Fri Sep 04, 2015 9:40 am

greggybud wrote: Who cares if it's the most popular?
I would answer that it is important, f.e. for the guys who try to create revenue with it, like in the topics example: teachers. If the youngsters are not intrested anymore, then this may hurt them, at least financially. But i certainly agree with the fact that the workflow and GUI shouldn't be changed for cubase. Not what has been proven to be a winner.

But on the other hand i have seen young guys looking at cubase, in fact "staring" is a better word i guess, just not knowing where to start. The number of functionalities is immens nowadays and it takes quite some time to understand the workflow. In my opinion such a thing is counterproductive to get new people introduced to the program.

And no, not a single person is going to read the 1000 pages before starting the program.
Remeber how unpatient you were when you started working with the program.
You need very fast results and workflow to create "something".

If you see, f.e. on the forum, questions like: hey i have no sound, how do i connect my soundcard to it, how do i record my guitar... that is not a good indicator for how easy the access to the underlying functionalities are.

Maybe introducing different profiles in the program with different GUI layouts could be a way to make it "cool" again.
F.e. a specific profile for the dance scene: a funky colored GUI with a simple sampler, certainly seperate drummodules like kick, clap, snare and hihat, renaming retrologue and add some rainbow colors... 8-) ... (joke) But at least the GUI like it is today should also be available and stay available.

It is difficult: Marketing. But if you see how much companies invest in it, and why, i guess it is important. And yes: Steinberg can not invest enough in it if it want to stay in BU. In the ideal world (for SB) two musicians would have a discussion about a DAW, while one says to the other: "what and you are still not using cubase (+ looks in disbelieve at the other)

:-) and a good starter for now would be if SB is going to bring us a good update with lots of new functionalities and repairs, for free... :-)

kind regards,
R.
Cubase 10.5, vienna ensemble pro 5,
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greggybud
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Re: Is Cubase Popularity Dropping?

Post by greggybud » Fri Sep 04, 2015 5:09 pm

roel wrote:
But on the other hand i have seen young guys looking at cubase, in fact "staring" is a better word i guess, just not knowing where to start. The number of functionalities is immens nowadays and it takes quite some time to understand the workflow. In my opinion such a thing is counterproductive to get new people introduced to the program.

And no, not a single person is going to read the 1000 pages before starting the program.
Remeber how unpatient you were when you started working with the program.
You need very fast results and workflow to create "something".
Well, at the start does anyone know how in-depth of a DAW they want? If you are determined, you will get it, and the rewards follow your efforts. So much of it depends on your comfort level and expectations.

Last week a collaborator who uses Logic browsed my project studio then after just 5 minutes understood why I use Cubase. "I can't do this in Logic" is what I kept hearing. And I can't do this on any other DAW to my knowledge. 3 mix consoles that can be linked, multiple editors, a drum editor something left out in most DAW's, a history window...all these things controlled by KC's and a MCU DAW controller. I would hate to try Cubase on a single laptop which is where most new users start, therefore becoming overwhelmed and popularity declining?
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I think they may stare because it is the most feature-rich DAW and very flexible compared to others? It's supposed to be "pro." Does anyone think you can have the most flexible and feature rich DAW while it being the most simple and intuitive?

I'm in a generation that did read manuals...even the paper type. When I have a question, it's not difficult to look up. But newer generations don't read much. They expect Youtube for most everything. If you don't get the instant results there is competition that will deliver...probably even more simple.

I would hate to see a DAW dumbed down for the purpose of increased market share which is exactly what has happened with NI. Their closest thing to a DAW is Maschine Studio, and that browser was dumbed down from Kore.

It seems to me at some point you have to draw the line and focus on your specific market. I hope CubasePro is for those who demand a higher experience.
Windows 10 64bit, Wavelab 9.5, latest Cubase version, 64 gig all drives SSD,s (Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1050ti driving 2 34" LG ultra wides and 1 28" all @2560x1080) iCon QconPro, Metagrid, 4 MidiTimePiece's = 32in/outs,, UAD-2, NI, Waves, Arturia, and lots of hardware synthesizers most of them controlled by MidiQuest 11.

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